fuel system
02-19-2005, 11:04 AM
#1
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fuel system
can anyone tell me if the superhawk does anything to let you know you have gone to your reserve tank or is that idiot light the only way to tell...i am tired of running out of gas!!!---also just purchased new filter and screens for fuel tank as i was told that may be my problem with only using 3.5 gals out of the 4.3 gal tank..
02-19-2005, 02:38 PM
#2
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The low fuel light tells me it's time to get my butt over to a gas station pronto. Over on the Speedzilla forum (or maybe it was here...?), someone mentioned the shape of the VTR tank which prevents approximately 0.5 gallons of fuel from being used. Along with about 0.5 gallons of reserve, that's 1 less gallon of fuel you have.
The best I've gotten out of the tank before the light comes on is 100 miles. That's roughly 33mpg.
Not quite as much as my F3 (~40mpg), but it's a good trade-off for the performance.
You'll probably have to get used to filling up more often.
The best I've gotten out of the tank before the light comes on is 100 miles. That's roughly 33mpg.
Not quite as much as my F3 (~40mpg), but it's a good trade-off for the performance.You'll probably have to get used to filling up more often.
02-19-2005, 08:39 PM
#4
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I would go for a long ride, then when your close to a gas station, ride around until it comes on, just to make sure itts working.
PS - In the bright sunshine its really hard to tell when the light comes on.
02-20-2005, 12:32 PM
#5
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02-21-2005, 03:39 AM
#6
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Re: fuel system
From 2001 onwards the fuel gauge replaced the RLOD. The euro model also had 19l (5.02 US Gallon) the US model got the updated dash with Fuel gauge and digital temp but not the bigger tank. The last bar on the fuel gauge will blink red when there is 3.8l (1 US Gallon) remaining on my AUS 2001 model with 19l tank. It will differ with the US models smaller tank. The big problem with the VTR is that it is unable to empty tank with only gravity feed to carbies. If you put an inline fuel filter in it will restrict flow slightly causing even less usable petrol in tank. The answer is to add a electric fuel pump. I have done this mod if anybody needs advice.
02-21-2005, 08:42 AM
#7
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wow, is this true?? I have sort of relied on the remaining gas at a couple of occasions, and it is scary to think I may be stranded somewhere with gas still in my tank. Is this a well known problem with all Superhawks?
02-21-2005, 10:13 AM
#8
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Re: fuel system
I haven't ran out of gas on the bike yet, but i guess i haven't been going as far on a tank as most of you. Once i get to the last bar on the gauge i fill up. I'll have to run it a little farthur sometime just to see how much i can get out of it.
02-21-2005, 10:28 AM
#9
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Re: fuel system
I never saw my low fuel warning light so I rode with my buddy fully intending on either a: seeing the light or b: running out of gas. b: happened. No idea why the light isnt' working so I have to use my trip meter for a fuel gage.
02-21-2005, 01:33 PM
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Re: fuel system
hey lewy---how much different is your tank from a 1998 SH--and if not much different, sell me yours-that tank sounds massive-hehehe-just kidding, but if you want to let me know how to put a fuel pump on that would be greatly appreciated....thanks phil...
02-21-2005, 02:26 PM
#11
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SuperSport
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Re: fuel system
Phil,
I also have a 2002 shawk. There is no red light of death, but there is a warning.
If you look at your fuel guage the bottom bar will flash on and off. When the bike is turned off you will see that there is a little bar that is red at the bottom of where the fuel guage usually is.
This tells you when you hit reserve. When this happens plan on going no more than 20miles!
I one time doing all expressway miles and being very good on the throttle got 168 miles on the tank. Only once. Never again
Look for the bar at the bottom to flash.
If you want to see if it works. Pop off your seat, there are some wires that are connected there. The only one that has a quick disconect is the fuel tank switch.
Unplug it and then turn the key on the bike. It takes a second to regester, buyt it should start flashing the lowest bar on the guage.
Lewy please share more info about this fuel pump mod.
I also have a 2002 shawk. There is no red light of death, but there is a warning.
If you look at your fuel guage the bottom bar will flash on and off. When the bike is turned off you will see that there is a little bar that is red at the bottom of where the fuel guage usually is.
This tells you when you hit reserve. When this happens plan on going no more than 20miles!
I one time doing all expressway miles and being very good on the throttle got 168 miles on the tank. Only once. Never again
Look for the bar at the bottom to flash.
If you want to see if it works. Pop off your seat, there are some wires that are connected there. The only one that has a quick disconect is the fuel tank switch.
Unplug it and then turn the key on the bike. It takes a second to regester, buyt it should start flashing the lowest bar on the guage.
Lewy please share more info about this fuel pump mod.
02-21-2005, 02:43 PM
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Re: fuel system
daytona- i guess my question should be refraised, when the bike swithces to the reserve tank, will i momentarily sputter? the first time i ran out of gass the bike took 4.3 gals of gas. before it ran out i thought i noticed a fuel starve spuuter like my old interceptor used to do to let me know to flip to the reserve tank. the second time i ran out of gas, the bike only took 3.5 gals, leaving .7 (the exact number supposedly left in reserve,) unaccounted for. my local mechanic suggested, after i ran out of gas the third time and still looking for .7 gals, that my fuel filter and screen is probably clogged from stirring up the crap on the bottom of the tank the first time i ran out. i have not yet installed the fiter and screen yet, but plan to do so on thursday. i am just wondering if the bike gives any sign of going to reserve, because my light goes on anywhere from 60-105 miles. and by the way thanx everyone for helping out, i just got the bike in sept. and i am still learning about it. pics coming soon, you guys wont be let down!
02-21-2005, 04:04 PM
#13
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SuperSport
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Re: fuel system
Phil
when the bike swithces to the reserve tank, will i momentarily sputter?
No, you won't even notice that it has switched over.
The only way that you will notice that your gas level is low is if you go up or down a hill. Example: I knew that I was LOW LOW on gas. I was coming over the seabreeze bridge and on the way down the bike sputtred (gas sloshed toward the front of the tank). I coasted down the hill and restarted the bike.
Disclamer: This was a situation when I knew I was low and I was praying that I would make it to the station. I hasnt happened again, I havnt let it. Everyone knows that pushing a motorcycle isn't fun.
My advise to you. At a minium - drain the float bowls. This will get some of the junk out of the fuel tank. Your mechanics suggestion about cleaning out the screen is a good one. You will probably find some water in there and some floating chunks that are deposits left in the tank. Sounds like you might have a clog somewhere.
Does the bike give any signs of switching to reserve, the blinking black bar. Thats the only thing, sorry it isnt somthing more obvious.
There isnt a drop in performance or a sound or anything that I notice when mine switches to reserve. I just try to set my tripmeter when I notice its on.
:
when the bike swithces to the reserve tank, will i momentarily sputter?
No, you won't even notice that it has switched over.
The only way that you will notice that your gas level is low is if you go up or down a hill. Example: I knew that I was LOW LOW on gas. I was coming over the seabreeze bridge and on the way down the bike sputtred (gas sloshed toward the front of the tank). I coasted down the hill and restarted the bike.
Disclamer: This was a situation when I knew I was low and I was praying that I would make it to the station. I hasnt happened again, I havnt let it. Everyone knows that pushing a motorcycle isn't fun.
My advise to you. At a minium - drain the float bowls. This will get some of the junk out of the fuel tank. Your mechanics suggestion about cleaning out the screen is a good one. You will probably find some water in there and some floating chunks that are deposits left in the tank. Sounds like you might have a clog somewhere.
Does the bike give any signs of switching to reserve, the blinking black bar. Thats the only thing, sorry it isnt somthing more obvious.
There isnt a drop in performance or a sound or anything that I notice when mine switches to reserve. I just try to set my tripmeter when I notice its on.
:
02-21-2005, 07:12 PM
#14
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Re: fuel system
The SuperHawk like many modern bikes doesn't have a true reserve tank with two different pick ups. The petcock has only one pickup and is vacuum operated. The tank has a fuel level arm that "trips" the reserve light (RLOD) at a pre-determine height indicating you are now on "reserve"; nothing more than that.
The engine doesn't "stumble" as the tank transistions from main to reserve because it never does switch. There's only one "tank".
The engine doesn't "stumble" as the tank transistions from main to reserve because it never does switch. There's only one "tank".
02-22-2005, 03:33 AM
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Re: fuel system
The VTR as I mentioned earlier is unable to empty it's tank because it is only gravity feed to carbies. If you have a look under you tank you will see it has very large fuel lines 3/8" from memory to each carby. This is to aid flow to carbies. It has no fuel filters at all it only has the fine screen over the outlet from tank (this is only really a rock filter). The bike also has a vacuum operated safety valve as part of the fuel tap outlet on pre 2001 models with 16l tanks. The later models have this valve seperate from outlet from tank it it has no manual tap at all. This valve is designed to cut fuel flow to carbies when the motor is not running i.e. no manifold vacuum. This is part of the reason why the VTR is unable to use the full amount of gas in tank. When the fuel tank gets low the flow to carbies is dimminished causing the motor to stumble on hard accel. this leads to low manifold vacuum and the safety valve shuts and no fuel gets thru to carbies and the engine dies. Yet if you fill it up you will find that it never takes the capacity that the tank holds. My 19l tank never took any more than 16l when the engine stops from lack of fuel. As I stated earlier if you add inline filters this is even worse. If you add a electric fuel pump you can run a decent fuel filter and also use the full capacity of your tank. Have attached a photo of pump & filter install on my bike you will notice the fuel tank outlet differs from yours 16l US tanks. Your outlet has the vacuum valve incorporated in the tank outlet. I actually have a 16l tank like this that I use for track days.
02-22-2005, 04:18 AM
#17
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Re: fuel system
How to fit fuel pump & filter.
From the pictures you can see the pump is mounted under tank. The pump is an aftermarket unit I purchased from a bike shop in Sydney I have also thought of using a genuine Honda unit from FI bike like late model 600 or FI blade. The wreckers wanted to much though.
I actually removed the seperate safety valve on my AUS 2001 model altogether to make room for the pump. I intended to put a tap inline where you can see the brass fittings on pump outlet. Must get around to doing that for safety purposes could also be a good anti theft device also if hidden.
The pump has 5/16" fittings while the VTR used 3/8" lines. I was able to squeeze 5/16" line over tank outlet. So that I could use 5/16" lines to pump & filter inlets & oulets. That brass fitting is actually a 5/16" to 3/8" adapter. I then used a small amount of 3/8 line to the 3/8 Y piece you can see then just cut & fitted lines from carbies to this y piece.
I used good quality hose clamps/fuel hose and made sure that when the tank was lowered none of the lines would be squeezed or chaffed. Didn't want any leaks that could be very dangerous or the possibility of the lines be damaged over time from rubbing or vibrations. You cant quite see on photo but where the line for front cylinder runs behind airbox I used a plastic 90 degree fuel pipe bend to stop fouling of fuel lines.
The wiring just runs back to loom under seat with an inline waterproof mini fuse holder spliced into rear tailight circuit. Used plastic spagetti over wires for extra protection. Used a 2 wire plug & socket so pump can be removed easily also.
If any one needs any more info or pictures just ask I'll do my best to help.
Probably one of the better mods I have done. Another is rewiring of headlight with decent wiring & relays but thats a another saga.
From the pictures you can see the pump is mounted under tank. The pump is an aftermarket unit I purchased from a bike shop in Sydney I have also thought of using a genuine Honda unit from FI bike like late model 600 or FI blade. The wreckers wanted to much though.
I actually removed the seperate safety valve on my AUS 2001 model altogether to make room for the pump. I intended to put a tap inline where you can see the brass fittings on pump outlet. Must get around to doing that for safety purposes could also be a good anti theft device also if hidden.
The pump has 5/16" fittings while the VTR used 3/8" lines. I was able to squeeze 5/16" line over tank outlet. So that I could use 5/16" lines to pump & filter inlets & oulets. That brass fitting is actually a 5/16" to 3/8" adapter. I then used a small amount of 3/8 line to the 3/8 Y piece you can see then just cut & fitted lines from carbies to this y piece.
I used good quality hose clamps/fuel hose and made sure that when the tank was lowered none of the lines would be squeezed or chaffed. Didn't want any leaks that could be very dangerous or the possibility of the lines be damaged over time from rubbing or vibrations. You cant quite see on photo but where the line for front cylinder runs behind airbox I used a plastic 90 degree fuel pipe bend to stop fouling of fuel lines.
The wiring just runs back to loom under seat with an inline waterproof mini fuse holder spliced into rear tailight circuit. Used plastic spagetti over wires for extra protection. Used a 2 wire plug & socket so pump can be removed easily also.
If any one needs any more info or pictures just ask I'll do my best to help.
Probably one of the better mods I have done. Another is rewiring of headlight with decent wiring & relays but thats a another saga.
02-22-2005, 02:55 PM
#18
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Re: fuel system
hey daytona and superbling....i do appreciate all the info you have both given me...like i have said before i havent had much seat time on this bike yet as i bought it in late sept. and new england winters are not great to ride in, coldest yet is 22'F and my key froze inside my ignition. i guess i will just have to get used to being the first guy who needs fuel.
02-23-2005, 06:52 PM
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Re: fuel system
once again thanx for all the help with this "not so much an issue as a question" i have had since the day i picked my bike up. my buddy i ride with told me that if i tried to keep BOTH wheels on the groud this might aid in slightly higher fuel mileage.....anyone?
02-23-2005, 07:17 PM
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Re: fuel system
Unintentionally testing the range of the fuel level warning light, I ran out of gas on a VTR for the first time last week. (Because the tank can be a bit cumbersome because of its top-heavy layout, when removing the tank to perform maintetance, my mechanic hates to wrestle with a full--or even half-full--tank. Thus, knowing that he was going to remove the tank to check the petcock gasket for leaks, I intentionally rode the VTR far into the "idiot" light's range--a bit too far, that is. Only two miles from the repair shop, I ran out of gas and, fortunately, was rescued by a passing long-time biker who happened to be driving a fleet truck during his work day.
From that experience, I woud say that, given that I'm not shy about cracking the throttle for a little extra umph, I wouldn't recommend riding more than 20 miles-or-so with the warning light on.
As one person at the now-defunct Run-Level-Zero VTR list noted, the light actually means "get your *** to a gas station."
cheers,
--HotStreetVTR
From that experience, I woud say that, given that I'm not shy about cracking the throttle for a little extra umph, I wouldn't recommend riding more than 20 miles-or-so with the warning light on.
As one person at the now-defunct Run-Level-Zero VTR list noted, the light actually means "get your *** to a gas station."
cheers,
--HotStreetVTR
02-24-2005, 09:39 AM
#21
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Re: fuel system
hey hot street-how many milles did you clock before you ran out...i intend on running to laconia this year and want to know the "safe" zone of fuel dismileage as i now call it. i would probably get better mileage if that darn power band wasnt so inticing....
03-03-2005, 01:47 PM
#22
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Re: fuel system
I would think a pump from a carbed bike with an electric pump would work best(FZR1000, early ZX-7, etc)
03-03-2005, 06:30 PM
#23
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Re: fuel system
I ran out last month for the first time on the VTR. 122miles; not unusual for me to hit the RLOD in the 90's. I think I got about 17 miles on "reserve", which was bout 4 miles not enough! 
I had forgottten about it, was blitzing on my local run and wasn't in the conserve-just-make-it-to-a-damn-station mode. 
You can bend the rod on the sending unit if you want more or less reserve warning.
I had forgottten about it, was blitzing on my local run and wasn't in the conserve-just-make-it-to-a-damn-station mode. You can bend the rod on the sending unit if you want more or less reserve warning.
03-03-2005, 07:09 PM
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Re: fuel system
ok so i guess i am not crazy, i thought something was major wrong with my bike.....but as i see from everyone here, its perfectly normal, anyone know any good gas stations on the way to Laconia?
04-24-2005, 01:33 PM
#26
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Re: fuel system
This doesn't make sense to me.
Think of this analogy: you have the typical spray bottle that's almost empty. As you spray the remaining liquid out, you tilt the bottle here and there while using it, thus the liquid sloshes around and the tube pickup eventually sucks air. So what do you do? You tilt the bottle so the liquid again contacts the tube don't you? You don't get a "mighty vac" out, hook it up, and pull a vacuum on the bottle do you? LOL!
So, I don't see how adding a pump to the tank's pickup point helps unless the pickup point is somehow modified. Did I miss something here?
Also, I've painted a couple of fuel injected tanks and for prep I ran them dry. Upon disassembly, they still had a 1/4 gallon or so of fuel left in them and that's with the fuel pump IN the tank.
Some other things: the connection on that 19L tank appears to be round where as the one on my 98 16L is oval or oblong in shape. Did you change it? An additional 3L for me would only be about 20 more miles in fun mode. Me thinks that the extra capactiy of the "bigger" tank may not all be usuable and more for marketing purposes.
Think of this analogy: you have the typical spray bottle that's almost empty. As you spray the remaining liquid out, you tilt the bottle here and there while using it, thus the liquid sloshes around and the tube pickup eventually sucks air. So what do you do? You tilt the bottle so the liquid again contacts the tube don't you? You don't get a "mighty vac" out, hook it up, and pull a vacuum on the bottle do you? LOL!
So, I don't see how adding a pump to the tank's pickup point helps unless the pickup point is somehow modified. Did I miss something here?
Also, I've painted a couple of fuel injected tanks and for prep I ran them dry. Upon disassembly, they still had a 1/4 gallon or so of fuel left in them and that's with the fuel pump IN the tank.
Some other things: the connection on that 19L tank appears to be round where as the one on my 98 16L is oval or oblong in shape. Did you change it? An additional 3L for me would only be about 20 more miles in fun mode. Me thinks that the extra capactiy of the "bigger" tank may not all be usuable and more for marketing purposes.
04-24-2005, 06:45 PM
#29
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Re: fuel system
so, if any ones sees that in laconia this year except with a black bike and black tank, that would be me.
one last thing here. i have since had the pleasure of riding my shawk in weather that allowed the bike to get to "normal" operating temp. my fuel mileage seems to be a little higher in 60 degree weather than in 20 degree weather. thanx for all the help guys and the laugh you gave me gerrit!
one last thing here. i have since had the pleasure of riding my shawk in weather that allowed the bike to get to "normal" operating temp. my fuel mileage seems to be a little higher in 60 degree weather than in 20 degree weather. thanx for all the help guys and the laugh you gave me gerrit!
04-24-2005, 07:09 PM
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Re: fuel system
Looking into this a little further, I found something interesting this afternoon.
I was on "reserve" on my new VFR tank and decided to again verify my full capacity. So I strapped on an exactly filled 1 gallon gas can and put on some miles. I also brought along a flashlight. I began sputtering at 178 miles (gotta' luv it) and pulled over. NOTE: 34mpg
Popped open the gas cap and shined my flashlight down at the petcock. Note: This is a tight angle on the VFR tank but I don't recall if you can do it on the VTR tank. Sure enough there was gas floating over it. I righted the bike, started it, and it began running again but roughly. I reved it a couple of times and it died out on the the third rev. I looked back in and the level was about the same. (?)
So I dumped the precisely 1 gallon can into the tank and rode slowly 8/10's of a mile to the next service station and put in 4.2 gallons. Add the gas can and that made it 5.2 gallons total. My initial fill up when I first put the dry tank on was 5.3 gallons so I'm thinking the last 1/10th of a gallon is not syphoning down to the carbs.
I'm guessing that gravity (or is it the force/weight of the remaining gas) isn't enough to "trip" the float bowls. (?) But how that translates into the 3L figure (thats nearly 3/4 of a gallon) referenced earlier in this thread that at least one bike has remaining is beyond me......
Some one should try to do this same thing with their VTR tank. Come on!
I was on "reserve" on my new VFR tank and decided to again verify my full capacity. So I strapped on an exactly filled 1 gallon gas can and put on some miles. I also brought along a flashlight. I began sputtering at 178 miles (gotta' luv it) and pulled over. NOTE: 34mpg
Popped open the gas cap and shined my flashlight down at the petcock. Note: This is a tight angle on the VFR tank but I don't recall if you can do it on the VTR tank. Sure enough there was gas floating over it. I righted the bike, started it, and it began running again but roughly. I reved it a couple of times and it died out on the the third rev. I looked back in and the level was about the same. (?)
So I dumped the precisely 1 gallon can into the tank and rode slowly 8/10's of a mile to the next service station and put in 4.2 gallons. Add the gas can and that made it 5.2 gallons total. My initial fill up when I first put the dry tank on was 5.3 gallons so I'm thinking the last 1/10th of a gallon is not syphoning down to the carbs.
I'm guessing that gravity (or is it the force/weight of the remaining gas) isn't enough to "trip" the float bowls. (?) But how that translates into the 3L figure (thats nearly 3/4 of a gallon) referenced earlier in this thread that at least one bike has remaining is beyond me......
Some one should try to do this same thing with their VTR tank. Come on!
