Ducati Sport Classic 1000 or VTR?
06-29-2010, 06:25 PM
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Ducati Sport Classic 1000 or VTR?
So, bias aside....I'm looking at a Ducati Sport Classic 1000. $10,500 for an 06. This is the retro bike, based on the 73 GT750 (I believe)...
Anyone ridden / owned one of these bikes? Any opinions? Reliability? Performance? Views?
Anyone ridden / owned one of these bikes? Any opinions? Reliability? Performance? Views?
06-29-2010, 06:46 PM
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I have not ridden one but I did a little research so here is my 2 cents. They are completely different purpose bikes. The Classic is a great retro looking bike. If you like the older look that is a beautiful bike. The faster bike, by a noticable margin is the hawk. Sport Rider rated the Classic at 78 hp at the wheel where as the Superhawk has been dyno'd at just over 100hp at the wheel. Just by looking at both companies records the Honda is going to be more reliable and cheaper to service. I am not biased, I bought my hawk for one reason. It was an AFFORDABLE sport bike. So It depends what you are looking for in a bike.
06-29-2010, 06:49 PM
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That seems steep $-wise to me, but I understand that you live in Canada, and unfortunately, pay a premium for bikes up there, even though your $ is almost the same as ours. I assume that must translate to used bikes as well? As far as the bike, is this the one with the front fairing or the naked one? ...
Like this?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/mcy/1816122165.html
You'll be down a few ponies on the SH, and I think the riding position will likely be a fair bit more aggressive than the hawk too, but it's got loads of character. I'd just have a hard time getting past the price.
-R
Like this?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/mcy/1816122165.html
You'll be down a few ponies on the SH, and I think the riding position will likely be a fair bit more aggressive than the hawk too, but it's got loads of character. I'd just have a hard time getting past the price.
-R
06-29-2010, 06:58 PM
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06-29-2010, 07:08 PM
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Price seems a little steep to me, but... if ya got the money and really want one, go for it! I've even recommended a Harley to a friend of mine who's always wanted one. I never criticize people for their tastes in bikes. The important thing is to ride what ya like. It's way more fun that way
06-30-2010, 03:53 AM
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Mister obvious here: But the SH weighs 480lbs and the Classic comes in at around 440lbs, I think, so the difference in power is somewhat negligible. The Classics are really equivalent to top-tiered Monsters and are supposedly wicked fun machines. The Ducati probably runs mid- to low-11s, maybe a tick slower than a VTR.
Other than that, the Classic will have better suspension parts out of the box. I think I read somewhere that the handlebar orientation is a bit radical, but the seat is supposedly good and the brakes are better than a stock SH’s.
Here’s a side-by-side:
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/2853/6942/
Ignore the weight specs as they’re the claimed weight.
Very different machines in a lot of ways, but I love both of them, too. I’ve always thought the SH in stock shape is very much like a ST2. If you lose the bodywork, relocate the rad under the seat, upgrade to a RC51 front end, get Oz rims (or whatever)… You start seeing a different retro / café racer / streetfighter bike that might have been.
The Classic is very possibly the best retro out there, a machine with the performance of a sportbike, but the good looks of a café racer. In a lot of ways, that’s a very sweet spot, but I don’t think sales have been that great and – in some ways – you would want to consider a Street Triple (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/7009/6942/) or even a Verseys before going with an 11k Duck.
All this said, you can get a SH for 2.5k. I don’t think 11k for a new Ducati is too out there – I think the Triumph Thruxton is 9k – but you get more bang for your buck out of the Honda.
CR
Other than that, the Classic will have better suspension parts out of the box. I think I read somewhere that the handlebar orientation is a bit radical, but the seat is supposedly good and the brakes are better than a stock SH’s.
Here’s a side-by-side:
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/2853/6942/
Ignore the weight specs as they’re the claimed weight.
Very different machines in a lot of ways, but I love both of them, too. I’ve always thought the SH in stock shape is very much like a ST2. If you lose the bodywork, relocate the rad under the seat, upgrade to a RC51 front end, get Oz rims (or whatever)… You start seeing a different retro / café racer / streetfighter bike that might have been.
The Classic is very possibly the best retro out there, a machine with the performance of a sportbike, but the good looks of a café racer. In a lot of ways, that’s a very sweet spot, but I don’t think sales have been that great and – in some ways – you would want to consider a Street Triple (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/7009/6942/) or even a Verseys before going with an 11k Duck.
All this said, you can get a SH for 2.5k. I don’t think 11k for a new Ducati is too out there – I think the Triumph Thruxton is 9k – but you get more bang for your buck out of the Honda.
CR
Last edited by Crashrat; 06-30-2010 at 07:21 AM.
06-30-2010, 07:13 AM
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last time I was in the duc dealer they said it was one of their best selling models. That was a few years ago. Honestly for me these bike are ugly... in pictures for some reason then you see one in person and they are beautiful. I don't know why that is?
06-30-2010, 09:36 AM
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The biggest thing to keep in mind about Ducatis is the maintenance. It's the whole reason that I sold my 748SP back in the day.
Yes, the interval for the service on the desmodromic valves is longer, but still. $800 or so at a pop around here.
Yes, the interval for the service on the desmodromic valves is longer, but still. $800 or so at a pop around here.
06-30-2010, 11:02 AM
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The Hawk will absolutely smoke any of the retro classic air cooled Ducatis in any contest of straight line speed, but that's not what either bike is about, and the Ducatis are plenty powerful for sane street riding.
Bang for the buck goes to the Super Hawk.
Bang for the buck goes to the Super Hawk.
06-30-2010, 11:32 AM
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Thanks guys - great advice and much appreciated...
Here's my rationale;
I love the VTR for it's value, fun and character.
But I also love the looks of the Sport Classic...it's the old Cafe Racer style from the 70's. At that time, a buddy of mine had a Rickman Metisse Bonneville Cafe Racer and I just drooled over that bloody bike! Could not afford it at the time, as a 18 year old mechanic. It's now 2010, and guess what - the Rickman is now $35,000 so still can't afford it....
The downsides and my resistance to the Ducati is the maintenance, together with a bunch of reliability issues. I'm not so worried about the performance - around 100 brake is enough for any sane street riding - and the ergo's...well, the VTR gives me no problems so should be OK with the Duc.
Bur $800 for a valve shim job....oooerrr!
I'll let you know what happens, but please do keep those opinions a comin' as I do take notice of your advice.
Cheers!
Here's my rationale;
I love the VTR for it's value, fun and character.
But I also love the looks of the Sport Classic...it's the old Cafe Racer style from the 70's. At that time, a buddy of mine had a Rickman Metisse Bonneville Cafe Racer and I just drooled over that bloody bike! Could not afford it at the time, as a 18 year old mechanic. It's now 2010, and guess what - the Rickman is now $35,000 so still can't afford it....
The downsides and my resistance to the Ducati is the maintenance, together with a bunch of reliability issues. I'm not so worried about the performance - around 100 brake is enough for any sane street riding - and the ergo's...well, the VTR gives me no problems so should be OK with the Duc.
Bur $800 for a valve shim job....oooerrr!
I'll let you know what happens, but please do keep those opinions a comin' as I do take notice of your advice.
Cheers!
06-30-2010, 11:47 AM
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Love the look, hated the ride. Just not a comfortable bike.
Might want to consider one of the newer Triumph Bonnies as a second bike. Been looking that them for a while. Granted not the fastest thing out there, but still fun to ride, relaible, ton of aftermarket trinkets, cheaper than a Duc...
Might want to consider one of the newer Triumph Bonnies as a second bike. Been looking that them for a while. Granted not the fastest thing out there, but still fun to ride, relaible, ton of aftermarket trinkets, cheaper than a Duc...
06-30-2010, 11:53 AM
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Dry weight for the Duc is 400lb and 426lb for the hawk. Power at the crank for the Classic is 91 and 110 for the hawk. The ducati has 4.38 pounds for each unit horsepower to carry around the Hawk only has 3.87 pounds per horsepower. Looking at numbers alone the hawk is a faster bike. If you look at rear wheel horse power 78 for the Duc and 101 for the hawk the gap widens. the 5.13lb per hp vs 4.22 for the hawk. That is almost a whole pound per horsepower difference. I think power is very relevant here.
06-30-2010, 11:56 AM
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I was just trying to prove a point. These are two very different bikes. The ducati is definitely an attention grabber. You will get tons of compliments on it for sure. Just dont expect to beat a competant rider on a superhawk in a drag race.
06-30-2010, 01:02 PM
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Them are claimed weights, PW. The only manufacturer who doesn't lie on their advertising is HD because no one cares.
Sportbike and Motorcyclist both publish actual weights under their "performance data" online. Motorcyclist used to do this in print, but it became stupid when their reviews -- obviously advertorials -- didn't match.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/performanc...ers/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/weights_me...nts/index.html
I've seen plenty of VERY fast riders on ac Ducatis. Neither of these bikes is for drag racing as Killer says, but I bet quarter-mile times are closer than you'd think and the Ducati is the better handling machine. Reliability is no question, though I've had friends w/ Monsters that weren't an issue. It probably depends on what you can do yourself.
I bow to folks who have ridden the bikes about comfort, and a lot of that is subjective. My old GB had clubman bars that were just silly and high rear sets, but somehow it worked.
I would be tempted if I had the cash burning a hole in my pocket.
CR
Sportbike and Motorcyclist both publish actual weights under their "performance data" online. Motorcyclist used to do this in print, but it became stupid when their reviews -- obviously advertorials -- didn't match.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/performanc...ers/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/weights_me...nts/index.html
I've seen plenty of VERY fast riders on ac Ducatis. Neither of these bikes is for drag racing as Killer says, but I bet quarter-mile times are closer than you'd think and the Ducati is the better handling machine. Reliability is no question, though I've had friends w/ Monsters that weren't an issue. It probably depends on what you can do yourself.
I bow to folks who have ridden the bikes about comfort, and a lot of that is subjective. My old GB had clubman bars that were just silly and high rear sets, but somehow it worked.
I would be tempted if I had the cash burning a hole in my pocket.
CR
06-30-2010, 01:33 PM
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Thanks for that link Crashrat that is pretty cool. There were a couple things that surprised me on there but most of all is how varied the 1/4 times were for the same bike. That is the slowest magazine 1/4 mile time ive seen for the hawk. 11.46 is kind of dissapointing. They did get 11.17 for the 97 hawk though. It really shows you that quarter mile times are not a good measurement for a motorcycle. I saw something interesting though. If you scroll down to their Harley section they have a Harley rated at 674 hp! INSANE, i want one of those.
at the same time if you think about how the hawk compairs to a lot of cars I will never afford 11.46 is smokin!
at the same time if you think about how the hawk compairs to a lot of cars I will never afford 11.46 is smokin!
Last edited by pwshadow; 06-30-2010 at 01:57 PM.
06-30-2010, 01:56 PM
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The legendary 04 Sportster Roadster -- my White Whale! Someday I'll get yer, cursed beast! Arg!
Hey, CANADAVTR, didn't you have a Buell? You have nothing to fear in a Ducati.
I like the looks of the new Bonnies, but you're talking HD 883-lvl performance, several steps back from a 90s Nighthawk or Magna.
Hey, CANADAVTR, didn't you have a Buell? You have nothing to fear in a Ducati.
I like the looks of the new Bonnies, but you're talking HD 883-lvl performance, several steps back from a 90s Nighthawk or Magna.
Last edited by Crashrat; 06-30-2010 at 03:01 PM.
06-30-2010, 06:22 PM
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The legendary 04 Sportster Roadster -- my White Whale! Someday I'll get yer, cursed beast! Arg!
Hey, CANADAVTR, didn't you have a Buell? You have nothing to fear in a Ducati.
I like the looks of the new Bonnies, but you're talking HD 883-lvl performance, several steps back from a 90s Nighthawk or Magna.
Hey, CANADAVTR, didn't you have a Buell? You have nothing to fear in a Ducati.
I like the looks of the new Bonnies, but you're talking HD 883-lvl performance, several steps back from a 90s Nighthawk or Magna.
I was in the garage tonight, polishing the stainless pipes on the VTR...the Buell sat next to it..and thought "look man, how much fun do you really need?" So, having reviewed the posts and the advice from you folks - decison made - the boys are staying and the Duc will, I'm sure, find another caring owner!
Cheers!
06-30-2010, 07:05 PM
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I found this real interesting.....
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html
the top gear roll on from 60-80.....
'97 2.78 sec with 104 hp @ 8500 rpm with 68.5 ft\lbs @6750
'00 5.00 sec with 100 hp @ 8250 rpm with 67 ft\lbs @ 6250
Which sounds like a change in cam specs.
Guess that settles which is the fastest color as the bikes built in '97 were all red.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pe...lts/index.html
the top gear roll on from 60-80.....
'97 2.78 sec with 104 hp @ 8500 rpm with 68.5 ft\lbs @6750
'00 5.00 sec with 100 hp @ 8250 rpm with 67 ft\lbs @ 6250
Which sounds like a change in cam specs.
Guess that settles which is the fastest color as the bikes built in '97 were all red.
Last edited by 8541Hawk; 06-30-2010 at 07:08 PM.
06-30-2010, 09:26 PM
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06-30-2010, 11:54 PM
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I have an '05 SuperSport 1000 which has the same engine as the Sport Classic except the Sport Classic engine is slightly de-tuned.
No reliability issues to report. Regarding the valve clearance adjustments and timing belt changes, consider it DIY. It ain't that difficult.
The Duc has a much more refined suspension that gives it a much more stable feel at speed compared to my VTR. The Brembo brakes provide incredible stopping power. The dry clutch has a relatively wide friction zone and provides a nice feel.
The fuel-injected 2V 1000DS engine is an absolute gem.
No reliability issues to report. Regarding the valve clearance adjustments and timing belt changes, consider it DIY. It ain't that difficult.
The Duc has a much more refined suspension that gives it a much more stable feel at speed compared to my VTR. The Brembo brakes provide incredible stopping power. The dry clutch has a relatively wide friction zone and provides a nice feel.
The fuel-injected 2V 1000DS engine is an absolute gem.
Last edited by storm_rider; 07-01-2010 at 12:07 AM.
07-01-2010, 04:01 AM
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I do think the Buell and the Classic would compete against each other in some ways, but lord what a friggin' great choice to have to make in the morning
The VTR is a station wagon in comparison. A fast, cool station wagon, but a station wagon none the less. Of course there are lots of people here who have hardened them up. What's your durect experience of the two bikes side-by-side, Stormrider?
A lot of the reviews had problems with the hydraulic clutch slipping during hard launches. I have one of those motorcycle reports of the bike so I can track down the 00 review. I'd rub the genie lamp and see if Tweety will chime in about the cams, but I don't recall any changes through the years.
CR
The VTR is a station wagon in comparison. A fast, cool station wagon, but a station wagon none the less. Of course there are lots of people here who have hardened them up. What's your durect experience of the two bikes side-by-side, Stormrider?
A lot of the reviews had problems with the hydraulic clutch slipping during hard launches. I have one of those motorcycle reports of the bike so I can track down the 00 review. I'd rub the genie lamp and see if Tweety will chime in about the cams, but I don't recall any changes through the years.
CR
07-01-2010, 09:08 AM
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VTR vs. Ducati SS1000:
- better fuel economy because it has EFI, higher compression and dual spark plugs.
- the Duc feels a lot lighter and turns easier without the added weight of the side mounted radiators.
- deeper exhaust note.
- better ergonomics, more comfy.
- I mentioned the dry clutch feel and the stronger Brembo brakes (not sure if the Sport Classic has a dry clutch, if it has a wet clutch than Ducati messed up).
- the Ohlins shock is a nice touch as well as the inverted Showa adjustable forks, very stable at high speed.
- tops out 10mph less compared to my VTR, less air resistance with its full fairing and less rolling friction because of its lighter weight.
- it out-classes most any bike I pull up to.
- better fuel economy because it has EFI, higher compression and dual spark plugs.
- the Duc feels a lot lighter and turns easier without the added weight of the side mounted radiators.
- deeper exhaust note.
- better ergonomics, more comfy.
- I mentioned the dry clutch feel and the stronger Brembo brakes (not sure if the Sport Classic has a dry clutch, if it has a wet clutch than Ducati messed up).
- the Ohlins shock is a nice touch as well as the inverted Showa adjustable forks, very stable at high speed.
- tops out 10mph less compared to my VTR, less air resistance with its full fairing and less rolling friction because of its lighter weight.
- it out-classes most any bike I pull up to.
Last edited by storm_rider; 07-01-2010 at 09:18 AM.
07-01-2010, 09:15 AM
#30
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VTR vs. Ducati SS1000:
- better fuel economy because it has EFI, higher compression and dual spark plugs.
- deeper exhaust note.
- better ergonomics, more comfy.
- I mentioned the dry clutch feel and the stronger Brembo brakes.
- the Ohlins shock is a nice touch as well as the inverted Showa adjustable forks, very stable at high speed.
- tops out 10mph less compared to my VTR, less air resistance with its full fairing and less rolling friction because of its lighter weight.
- it out-classes most any bike I pull up to.
- better fuel economy because it has EFI, higher compression and dual spark plugs.
- deeper exhaust note.
- better ergonomics, more comfy.
- I mentioned the dry clutch feel and the stronger Brembo brakes.
- the Ohlins shock is a nice touch as well as the inverted Showa adjustable forks, very stable at high speed.
- tops out 10mph less compared to my VTR, less air resistance with its full fairing and less rolling friction because of its lighter weight.
- it out-classes most any bike I pull up to.
