brake solution
09-07-2013, 06:18 PM
#1
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Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 32
brake solution
hi guys i just bought a 99 vtr and loving it.Since im new to this bike (i owned a sv1000s 4 years ago) i knew from reading the forum that the vtr had a brake problem... my question is with 30k km. and the stock rotor should i change everything or just the pad ? I found the braking hummm very lazy both front and rear. Btw i prefer stock over swapping some parts and im a street guy.
09-07-2013, 08:55 PM
#2
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Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
If you are asking if you should replace the rotor then it would mean checking it for thickness. Cleaning them with scotchbrite/sanpaper and replacing the pads will hugely improve braking.
Braided stainless lines help alot too.
Braided stainless lines help alot too.
09-08-2013, 06:15 AM
#4
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Joe hit the nail right on the head. Follow that advice and if you are still unsatisfied, rethink the swap to the F4i brakes. They can be had for cheap on ebay and make a huge improvement.
This season I did the swap and installed a set of these:
Excellent pads IMHO.
And welcome to the forum!
This season I did the swap and installed a set of these:
Excellent pads IMHO.
And welcome to the forum!
09-08-2013, 10:04 AM
#5
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I always chime in with this but HH racing pads are not even recommended for the street. They are what they claim to be which is for racing.
I know there are tons of street squids riding around on slick tires (which will never heat up) in full leathers (to look neat) and on racebikes, etc but hh pads are made to perform at high temps which you will almost NEVER see on the street.
There are other pads that will easily out-perform HH in initial bike and stopping power with NO heat up required.
HH are literally made for repeated full power stops from 150mph. If you have ever done that on the street you need to take a time out and re-think your life's priorities.
I know there are tons of street squids riding around on slick tires (which will never heat up) in full leathers (to look neat) and on racebikes, etc but hh pads are made to perform at high temps which you will almost NEVER see on the street.
There are other pads that will easily out-perform HH in initial bike and stopping power with NO heat up required.
HH are literally made for repeated full power stops from 150mph. If you have ever done that on the street you need to take a time out and re-think your life's priorities.
09-08-2013, 10:57 AM
#6
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 972
I always chime in with this but HH racing pads are not even recommended for the street. They are what they claim to be which is for racing.
I know there are tons of street squids riding around on slick tires (which will never heat up) in full leathers (to look neat) and on racebikes, etc but hh pads are made to perform at high temps which you will almost NEVER see on the street.
There are other pads that will easily out-perform HH in initial bike and stopping power with NO heat up required.
HH are literally made for repeated full power stops from 150mph. If you have ever done that on the street you need to take a time out and re-think your life's priorities.
I know there are tons of street squids riding around on slick tires (which will never heat up) in full leathers (to look neat) and on racebikes, etc but hh pads are made to perform at high temps which you will almost NEVER see on the street.
There are other pads that will easily out-perform HH in initial bike and stopping power with NO heat up required.
HH are literally made for repeated full power stops from 150mph. If you have ever done that on the street you need to take a time out and re-think your life's priorities.
100ft til I turned on to a busy 4 lane road. Gently fed clutch/throttle as i turned, the back came around and did a 270. Til I let off. Tip over. Never asked if the tires were race and owner didn't tell me. I ponied up the $800 to fix the bike. It was not a race bike btw. Expensive lesson.
09-08-2013, 11:42 AM
#7
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Superstock
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Posts: 321
"However great the standard Double-H™ pads are for extended street use, at the race track riders need a little bit more in terms of BITE and heat cycling ability ,that’s where the upgrade options of EPFA and GPFA come in."
From the HH product page:
" Within one year of their launch in 2004 Double-H™ became the standard by which all brake pads for streetbikes were judged because of their long lasting and powerful brake effect."
09-08-2013, 03:46 PM
#8
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You know what they say about opinions right?
From the back of the blister pack, read break in/bed in:
For not being recommended for street use, you'd think they wouldn't word it like that! And a racing application pad wouldn't list an advantage of long life, would they?
From the back of the blister pack, read break in/bed in:
For not being recommended for street use, you'd think they wouldn't word it like that! And a racing application pad wouldn't list an advantage of long life, would they?
Last edited by Wolverine; 09-08-2013 at 03:49 PM.
09-08-2013, 08:36 PM
#9
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Not sure what that break in paragraph has to do with it. I absolutely could be wrong but I dont thing they even made the epfa pads til relatively recently.
Either way, my opinion after racing the HH ebc for years and putting several years on them on the street is they last a long time but I just dont like them. I recently switched to ferodo on the track and was able to push all my brake markers substantially back at race pace.
YMMV. but I dont like them. And why wouldn't the hh product page swear their own product was great? And maybe it was 9 yrs ago, but I am riding today.
If you like them (you already bought them so you kind of have to) keep em, I have run them for a long time and dont.
Either way, my opinion after racing the HH ebc for years and putting several years on them on the street is they last a long time but I just dont like them. I recently switched to ferodo on the track and was able to push all my brake markers substantially back at race pace.
YMMV. but I dont like them. And why wouldn't the hh product page swear their own product was great? And maybe it was 9 yrs ago, but I am riding today.
If you like them (you already bought them so you kind of have to) keep em, I have run them for a long time and dont.
09-09-2013, 06:38 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 458
While I am still new to the VTR my last bike was a YZF600R which was toted for years as to have the best in class brakes, mostly because of the weight of the bike you could use all the force of the brakes and not do a cartwheel with it (weighed in at 500lbs with all the fluids minus rider, even the hawk which I frequently see as people regarding a heavy motorcycle feels lightweight in comparison. But I like a bike with heft, more stable on the freeway passing trucks)
I feel that the Brakes on VTR are more than adequate. In fact I feel that I would have much more stopping power if the front suspension could handle my application of the brakes. There is so much front end dive that I feel if I had anymore stopping power that I would lay the bike down, and I'm not using all the power that the bike has to stop with, of course your mileage may vary as I use engine breaking and rear brakes as well to slow (I get yelled at all the time by "experienced" sportbike riders that I should never use or rely on the rear brakes but its BS, you need to know how to use them properly in case of a front brake failure and because your stopping distance is greatly reduced when you utilize BOTH brakes, they wouldn't give you rear brakes if all they did was cause accidents and there was no way to properly use them).
I think after a respring of the front end I plan to do when the weather cools off some and i can stand being in the garage braking should be greatly improved as well as handling. For me personally a new set of pads and front fork springs will likely be all I do to help my bike stop faster
I feel that the Brakes on VTR are more than adequate. In fact I feel that I would have much more stopping power if the front suspension could handle my application of the brakes. There is so much front end dive that I feel if I had anymore stopping power that I would lay the bike down, and I'm not using all the power that the bike has to stop with, of course your mileage may vary as I use engine breaking and rear brakes as well to slow (I get yelled at all the time by "experienced" sportbike riders that I should never use or rely on the rear brakes but its BS, you need to know how to use them properly in case of a front brake failure and because your stopping distance is greatly reduced when you utilize BOTH brakes, they wouldn't give you rear brakes if all they did was cause accidents and there was no way to properly use them).
I think after a respring of the front end I plan to do when the weather cools off some and i can stand being in the garage braking should be greatly improved as well as handling. For me personally a new set of pads and front fork springs will likely be all I do to help my bike stop faster
09-09-2013, 06:55 AM
#11
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But the point the thread drifted when you stated the EBC HH pad was not suited for street use because it was a race only pad that would never get enough heat in it....
That personal opinion I would have to disagree with. ..... as it would seem, does the manufacture.
EBC good or not at race pace? No idea... I'll take your word for it.
The what XYZ is best internet forum concept is never ending, oil, break in method, brake pads.. mostly due to the never ending variables that are uncontrollable from one situation / user / bike / to another.
So I wont say they are the best ever..
I have been running on the street
Vesrah Part Number: VD-166/2
Pad Material Type:SRJL 17
In F4i calipers, RC51 SP1 brake master cylinder, Galfer 3in longer SS lines.
They provide great feedback, bite rain or texas summer heat.
To each his own.... run what works for you
Last edited by E.Marquez; 09-09-2013 at 07:31 AM.
09-09-2013, 05:05 PM
#12
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Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, South of Heaven
Posts: 342
In my opinion if you have rode and got used to the breaking power of other >600cc sport bikes, the SH OEM front brake setup will feel "lazy" at the best even with new components and braided lines.
That said I have been running EBC HH pads for over 10K miles with no issues but they don't give a noticeable improvement over OEM. At 30K miles I would swap the rotors as well. I changed mine at 15K (the stock rotors were still above specs) with Galfer Waves and the breaking improved quite a lot.
2 fingers action will require (in my experience) changing also calipers and MC. There is no way around it.
That said I have been running EBC HH pads for over 10K miles with no issues but they don't give a noticeable improvement over OEM. At 30K miles I would swap the rotors as well. I changed mine at 15K (the stock rotors were still above specs) with Galfer Waves and the breaking improved quite a lot.
2 fingers action will require (in my experience) changing also calipers and MC. There is no way around it.
09-09-2013, 09:08 PM
#13
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Insulin, I posted a "trackside" fix for the the forks that can be done on the bike in like 35min that helps hugely. Its basicly adding spacers for preload and an inch or so of really thick fork oil to help damping.
Humongous difference.
Humongous difference.
09-10-2013, 03:45 AM
#14
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Back Marker
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While I am still new to the VTR my last bike was a YZF600R which was toted for years as to have the best in class brakes, mostly because of the weight of the bike you could use all the force of the brakes and not do a cartwheel with it (weighed in at 500lbs with all the fluids minus rider, even the hawk which I frequently see as people regarding a heavy motorcycle feels lightweight in comparison. But I like a bike with heft, more stable on the freeway passing trucks)
I feel that the Brakes on VTR are more than adequate. In fact I feel that I would have much more stopping power if the front suspension could handle my application of the brakes. There is so much front end dive that I feel if I had anymore stopping power that I would lay the bike down, and I'm not using all the power that the bike has to stop with, of course your mileage may vary as I use engine breaking and rear brakes as well to slow (I get yelled at all the time by "experienced" sportbike riders that I should never use or rely on the rear brakes but its BS, you need to know how to use them properly in case of a front brake failure and because your stopping distance is greatly reduced when you utilize BOTH brakes, they wouldn't give you rear brakes if all they did was cause accidents and there was no way to properly use them).
I think after a respring of the front end I plan to do when the weather cools off some and i can stand being in the garage braking should be greatly improved as well as handling. For me personally a new set of pads and front fork springs will likely be all I do to help my bike stop faster
I feel that the Brakes on VTR are more than adequate. In fact I feel that I would have much more stopping power if the front suspension could handle my application of the brakes. There is so much front end dive that I feel if I had anymore stopping power that I would lay the bike down, and I'm not using all the power that the bike has to stop with, of course your mileage may vary as I use engine breaking and rear brakes as well to slow (I get yelled at all the time by "experienced" sportbike riders that I should never use or rely on the rear brakes but its BS, you need to know how to use them properly in case of a front brake failure and because your stopping distance is greatly reduced when you utilize BOTH brakes, they wouldn't give you rear brakes if all they did was cause accidents and there was no way to properly use them).
I think after a respring of the front end I plan to do when the weather cools off some and i can stand being in the garage braking should be greatly improved as well as handling. For me personally a new set of pads and front fork springs will likely be all I do to help my bike stop faster
09-10-2013, 11:13 AM
#15
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Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 458
Just seems like confidence would be much improved with a bike less likely to bite me as hard when (not if) I do something wrong
09-10-2013, 11:37 PM
#17
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 466
Nothing against RT, but if you go through Jammie you can get equal or better quality at a greatly reduced price. He also has great customer servise to boot! Just a thought. I redid my forks with his parts and love the improvement.
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