Anybody ever ride without front wheel spacers
05-20-2010, 10:01 AM
#1
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Squid
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Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 12
Anybody ever ride without front wheel spacers
Newbie here,
About 6 months ago, I upgraded from an '89 Hawkgt to an '02 Superhawk (I've been smiling as hard as I can since then).
When I got the bike, it was apparent that I needed new tires (which I put off until last week). I dropped it off at a local shop to have them install some michelin pilot road 2's and then I got a phone call from the service dude. He said: "You're not going to believe this, but the front wheel spacers were missing on your bike." He was right - at first I didn't believe him, but after talking with him for a while he struck me as a straight shooter that had a process that would have caught missing spacers.
Does it seem possible that I could have ridden (sometimes pretty aggressively) for about 6 months without front wheel spacers and not notice it?
About 6 months ago, I upgraded from an '89 Hawkgt to an '02 Superhawk (I've been smiling as hard as I can since then).
When I got the bike, it was apparent that I needed new tires (which I put off until last week). I dropped it off at a local shop to have them install some michelin pilot road 2's and then I got a phone call from the service dude. He said: "You're not going to believe this, but the front wheel spacers were missing on your bike." He was right - at first I didn't believe him, but after talking with him for a while he struck me as a straight shooter that had a process that would have caught missing spacers.
Does it seem possible that I could have ridden (sometimes pretty aggressively) for about 6 months without front wheel spacers and not notice it?
05-20-2010, 10:24 AM
#3
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Squid
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Dropped off the whole bike.
The dude claimed that although he had a process (a) put bike on lift, b) Indicate rotation of tire on discs with sharpie, c) remove tire, d) put spacers under corresponding forks, e) walk tire/wheel 10' to the tire machine, etc) he still hunted for the spacers that had to be there.
He then put the tire/wheel back on and discovered that the discs were kept in place well by the calipers.
Sorry for the long-winded reply, got a little carried away.
The dude claimed that although he had a process (a) put bike on lift, b) Indicate rotation of tire on discs with sharpie, c) remove tire, d) put spacers under corresponding forks, e) walk tire/wheel 10' to the tire machine, etc) he still hunted for the spacers that had to be there.
He then put the tire/wheel back on and discovered that the discs were kept in place well by the calipers.
Sorry for the long-winded reply, got a little carried away.
05-20-2010, 10:32 AM
#4
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SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
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no, it wouldn't work. the only thing allowing the wheel to firmly sit between the fork legs is the fact that the spacers make it one solid cylinder from nut - fork leg- spacer- bearing - distance collar- spacer - fork leg - nut. if it was tightened down without the correct spacing, the forks would not line up, calipers, rotors would be all bound/bent out of round..
05-20-2010, 11:01 AM
#5
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Squid
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Location: Eugene, OR
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Dang man...that makes sense. When I pick it up, I'm wondering if he's going to claim that whoever sold me the bike just tightened the fork clamp bolts (or whatever they're called) to prevent the forks from tweaking in. I'm picking it up tomorrow and I'll report back.
05-20-2010, 11:02 AM
#6
my e-penis is huge!!
Superstock
Superstock
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Location: belvidere nj
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Your "straight shooter" is blowing smoke up your ***. There is absolutely no way you would not notice missing wheel spacers. You would have destroyed the brakes/rotors and crashed the first sweeping turn you rode through.
Hey......I am selling a bridge.......interested?? Might have heard of it.... the Brooklyn Bridge? selling cheap. Let me know.
Hey......I am selling a bridge.......interested?? Might have heard of it.... the Brooklyn Bridge? selling cheap. Let me know.
05-20-2010, 11:14 AM
#8
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MotoGP
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Indeed something is not right in what he is saying. You wouldn't have been able to ride the bike without them.
Small side note: Indicating direction with sharpie shouldn't be needed as there are arrows on the rotors.
Small side note: Indicating direction with sharpie shouldn't be needed as there are arrows on the rotors.
05-20-2010, 12:05 PM
#12
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And people wounder I why I do all my own work and won't let anyone touch my bike...... 
I can't add anything to what has been said about how the bike won't work without spacers....... I would say ask him to ride the bike without spacers except I doubt you want to see your bike thrown in the ditch.
Sure the calipers can keep the wheel in place when stationary. As soon as things are spinning and you put a side load on it the semi-floating rotors will deflect around .250" or so. The would give you around .500" side play on your front wheel. I really think you might have noticed that...... and that is the best case scenario, in reality you would get even more side play and the rotors and brake pads would be destroyed in a matter of miles, if they didn't just lock up.
Tell the guy to get you some new spacers to replace the ones he lost as the guy is full of it. Even his "process" is a bunch of BS. If step "d" is to put the spacers under the corresponding fork leg, why didn't he just stop there and call you? Why the hell is he still looking for them when he gets to the tire machine?
I could go on but I think you get the point.
I can't add anything to what has been said about how the bike won't work without spacers....... I would say ask him to ride the bike without spacers except I doubt you want to see your bike thrown in the ditch.
Sure the calipers can keep the wheel in place when stationary. As soon as things are spinning and you put a side load on it the semi-floating rotors will deflect around .250" or so. The would give you around .500" side play on your front wheel. I really think you might have noticed that...... and that is the best case scenario, in reality you would get even more side play and the rotors and brake pads would be destroyed in a matter of miles, if they didn't just lock up.
Tell the guy to get you some new spacers to replace the ones he lost as the guy is full of it. Even his "process" is a bunch of BS. If step "d" is to put the spacers under the corresponding fork leg, why didn't he just stop there and call you? Why the hell is he still looking for them when he gets to the tire machine?
I could go on but I think you get the point.
05-20-2010, 12:27 PM
#13
2nd mouse gets the cheese
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also ask him if it is a regular habit of his to get baked before doing mechanical work 
.
Baked mechanic:
"Doh! I can't find those wheel spacers... maybe there weren't any... damn I am hungry... where are the cheetos? What was I doing again?"
(Thoughts continue to ramble and hours later he calls hapless superhawk owner. Phone rings in backround)
Baked mechanic:
"Dude man bro, you have been riding around with no wheel spacers."
(Meanwhile the sound of cheetos being eaten in the backround and the high snickers of his fellow pals.)
.Baked mechanic:
"Doh! I can't find those wheel spacers... maybe there weren't any... damn I am hungry... where are the cheetos? What was I doing again?"
(Thoughts continue to ramble and hours later he calls hapless superhawk owner. Phone rings in backround)
Baked mechanic:
"Dude man bro, you have been riding around with no wheel spacers."
(Meanwhile the sound of cheetos being eaten in the backround and the high snickers of his fellow pals.)
05-20-2010, 12:49 PM
#14
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I disagree.
The axle fits the bearing ID closely. The rotors could probably support the lateral load on the front wheel, when cornering and keep the front wheel centered. But it sure woudn't feel right. It's certainly not safe.
It probably didn't have spacers. I don't know why the mechanic would make it up. Maye he did. Maybe he didn't.
The axle fits the bearing ID closely. The rotors could probably support the lateral load on the front wheel, when cornering and keep the front wheel centered. But it sure woudn't feel right. It's certainly not safe.
It probably didn't have spacers. I don't know why the mechanic would make it up. Maye he did. Maybe he didn't.
05-20-2010, 01:02 PM
#15
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
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honestly though ever had a motorcycle with play in any of the wheels, even a 1/32 in play you can feel, it would feel sloppy and considering all the play would go into the brake pads it should feel gritty. Maybe more info from the original poster then, ever notice anything unsettling about the bike when cornering?
05-20-2010, 01:35 PM
#17
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The reason I ask this is any slop in the front wheel will cause it to wobble. This will cause the rotors to push the brake pads into the calipers. So in order for the brakes to work, you would need to pump the system up enough to have the pads contact the rotor.
This would feel like major brake fade at best, in fact that is how I diagnosed a wheel bearing going bad. The slight wobble caused by a bearing on the way out had me going through my entire front brake system until I finally checked the wheel bearing and found a bit of run out. Swapped out the bearings and the brake problem went away.
IMHO one bearing going out would induce less wheel side movement than missing spaces, so I really do thing you would have noticed them missing.
Then again, anything is possible....
05-20-2010, 02:15 PM
#19
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Squid
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 12
Brakes were just fine the whole time, never had to pump 'em or anything
I think I'll print out this string, I'll have some herbal tea and we (me and the mechanic) will read the comments together.
I'll close with Grasshopper's last comment followed by "The End"
I think I'll print out this string, I'll have some herbal tea and we (me and the mechanic) will read the comments together.
I'll close with Grasshopper's last comment followed by "The End"
05-20-2010, 02:34 PM
#21
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SuperBike
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Location: Richmond, Virginia
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Each of those spacers is about an inch long. They do sit in a recess in the wheel hub, but IIRC they still protrude a half inch. I say there is no way the forks wouldn't hit the brake rotors. I'll look at mine when I get home.
05-20-2010, 03:06 PM
#22
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SuperBike
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Location: Richmond, Virginia
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OK, my wheel is off the bike. Without spacers the forks hit the rotors. And not just a little bit. Furthermore it would be impossible to tighten the front axle. Sorry, but this guy is a Bozo. And if he's a mechanic he knows better, so he's worse than a Bozo.
BTW I checked bikebandit.com. The sell those spacers for like 7 or 8 dollars. How much did he want?
If he insists they were missing when you left the bike go over there and ask him to put the wheel on in your presence without spacers. Like I said impossible.
BTW I checked bikebandit.com. The sell those spacers for like 7 or 8 dollars. How much did he want?
If he insists they were missing when you left the bike go over there and ask him to put the wheel on in your presence without spacers. Like I said impossible.
05-20-2010, 03:08 PM
#23
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 293
was in a hurry last month when i was at the track swapping my rims on the rc51 (different tires on different rims for different conditions)...
anyways, long story short, i forgot some spacers, suffice it to say, the damn bike did NOT roll. basically locked up the front wheel. took me an hour of fiddling taking everything apart, putting it back, jamming up the axle nut, blah blah blah, then i looked at the other rims and noticed the spacers (fail).
bottom line is that you would DEFINITELY notice if the spacers werent there.
anyways, long story short, i forgot some spacers, suffice it to say, the damn bike did NOT roll. basically locked up the front wheel. took me an hour of fiddling taking everything apart, putting it back, jamming up the axle nut, blah blah blah, then i looked at the other rims and noticed the spacers (fail).
bottom line is that you would DEFINITELY notice if the spacers werent there.
05-20-2010, 03:13 PM
#24
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SuperBike
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Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Well let me ask you this. How were the front brakes? Was the lever firm or did you have to pump it up for the brakes to work?
The reason I ask this is any slop in the front wheel will cause it to wobble. This will cause the rotors to push the brake pads into the calipers. So in order for the brakes to work, you would need to pump the system up enough to have the pads contact the rotor.
This would feel like major brake fade at best, in fact that is how I diagnosed a wheel bearing going bad. The slight wobble caused by a bearing on the way out had me going through my entire front brake system until I finally checked the wheel bearing and found a bit of run out. Swapped out the bearings and the brake problem went away.
IMHO one bearing going out would induce less wheel side movement than missing spaces, so I really do thing you would have noticed them missing.
Then again, anything is possible....
The reason I ask this is any slop in the front wheel will cause it to wobble. This will cause the rotors to push the brake pads into the calipers. So in order for the brakes to work, you would need to pump the system up enough to have the pads contact the rotor.
This would feel like major brake fade at best, in fact that is how I diagnosed a wheel bearing going bad. The slight wobble caused by a bearing on the way out had me going through my entire front brake system until I finally checked the wheel bearing and found a bit of run out. Swapped out the bearings and the brake problem went away.
IMHO one bearing going out would induce less wheel side movement than missing spaces, so I really do thing you would have noticed them missing.
Then again, anything is possible....
If everything felt normal, you probably had wheel spacers.
I'm starting to go with the baked mechanic...
05-20-2010, 03:47 PM
#27
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SuperSport
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I would not insult my mechanic (I don't have one) before I was able to roll out my bike. It's kind of like sending your meal back to the chef for rework. An insult will only complicate the issue. Also if the spacers were missing for any period, the dirt deposits on the axle would indicate it. Footprints.......
05-20-2010, 03:58 PM
#28
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Location: Skurup, Sweden
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I would not insult my mechanic (I don't have one) before I was able to roll out my bike. It's kind of like sending your meal back to the chef for rework. An insult will only complicate the issue. Also if the spacers were missing for any period, the dirt deposits on the axle would indicate it. Footprints.......
Look at it, and then politely ask him to replace the spacers at his cost if the evidence is there... If he doesn't... Well.. I'd call it even, he can keep the spacers as payment for his work...
You can always buy the spacers else where...
05-20-2010, 06:59 PM
#30
Member
Squid
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Ask for the shop manager. If they deny ever losing them, tell them I am riding home, and if I wipe out/crash go down because they are wrong and lost them, you'll get an ambulance chasing injury lawyer. After you own that shop it will be under new management.
No shop in their right mind sends out any vehicle that has a serious safety issue. They would not risk it for $15 in parts. Better yet make them prove it rode in that way by test riding it for you, tell them you think it is unsafe and have bake boy take it out and get it up to 70 on the freeway in traffic.
No shop in their right mind sends out any vehicle that has a serious safety issue. They would not risk it for $15 in parts. Better yet make them prove it rode in that way by test riding it for you, tell them you think it is unsafe and have bake boy take it out and get it up to 70 on the freeway in traffic.
