97 rwhp from my stock hawk
#1
97 rwhp from my stock hawk
My engine is stock except for a very open exhaust. It put down 97 hp and 63 ft/lb last week. I hear some are getting 106-108 with exhaust/jetting/k&n.
What do you have and what can it do on the dyno?
What do you have and what can it do on the dyno?
#4
I got 104/67 on my original 98 with only staintunes w/o the restrictor, no jet kit.
This was on a dyno-jet dyno. If yours was on a current-eddy dyno, those readings are always lower by about 10% so 97 would be about right.
This was on a dyno-jet dyno. If yours was on a current-eddy dyno, those readings are always lower by about 10% so 97 would be about right.
#15
i have dynojet 185 and 184 i think... and kn filter, and yoshimura carbon slips.
i have video of the dyno on streetfire.net
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5EC25F068C.htm
i love it when he gets on the gas at like 3k, and she just pushes the suspension GRUNT!
i have video of the dyno on streetfire.net
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5EC25F068C.htm
i love it when he gets on the gas at like 3k, and she just pushes the suspension GRUNT!
#16
oh and to the original poster. if you have a modified exhust on a stock bike you are most definately loosing hp.
you would have to re-jet to maintain correct air fuel ratio, even if you pull the baffles out. so if you have an extremely open exhaust on a superhawk im betting your powerband is feeling pretty soft in some areas.
you would have to re-jet to maintain correct air fuel ratio, even if you pull the baffles out. so if you have an extremely open exhaust on a superhawk im betting your powerband is feeling pretty soft in some areas.
#20
I wouldn't have thought whp would have the gearing cancelled out.
The gear ratio contributes to the torque on the rear wheel. Of course horsepower is calculated mathematically from torque.
Would anyone care to confirm or deny my suspicions? I'm awfully skeptical.
The gear ratio contributes to the torque on the rear wheel. Of course horsepower is calculated mathematically from torque.
Would anyone care to confirm or deny my suspicions? I'm awfully skeptical.
#21
ok I'm sorry. what will happen is torque will increase but your hp will most definetely drop with a larger sprocket in the rear. good example of such:
http://www.car-videos.net/articles/h...wer_torque.asp
hp won't change at all though. a small gearing change for us isn't bad because the higher gears are well tall. Though it makes 1st a little bit rough...
http://www.car-videos.net/articles/h...wer_torque.asp
hp won't change at all though. a small gearing change for us isn't bad because the higher gears are well tall. Though it makes 1st a little bit rough...
#22
I am not sure I understand. According to the argument of that website, the tire size is the origin of the torque loss, rather than the weight of the drivetrain.
I still think if torque increases then horsepower increases. The gearing affects the torque throughout the rpm range, so the with higher torque everywhere, there will also be a correspondingly higher horsepower.
BTW, I'm liking this discussion. I hope more people chime in.
I still think if torque increases then horsepower increases. The gearing affects the torque throughout the rpm range, so the with higher torque everywhere, there will also be a correspondingly higher horsepower.
BTW, I'm liking this discussion. I hope more people chime in.
#23
ok actually that was a bad example. here:
chassis dynos measure the acceleration of a known weight over time.. that's the definition of horsepower. chassis dynos don't measure torque. if you entered the wrong gear ratio, the whp would be correct, but the wheel torque would be wrong. same thing if the tire diameter is off. the "shape" of the curve would be accurate though. the effective torque though is what's changed by the gearing. is tied directly into the gearing ratio.
chassis dynos measure the acceleration of a known weight over time.. that's the definition of horsepower. chassis dynos don't measure torque. if you entered the wrong gear ratio, the whp would be correct, but the wheel torque would be wrong. same thing if the tire diameter is off. the "shape" of the curve would be accurate though. the effective torque though is what's changed by the gearing. is tied directly into the gearing ratio.
#24
Dynamometers only measure torque and rpm. Torque is the rate of change of acceleration. So you could say that torque is the integral of acceleration, and acceleration is the integral of speed. Horsepower is calculated from the following equation:
HP = (Torque x rpm) / 5252
Changing gearing will NOT change either hp or torque. It will change how the power feels to you while riding the bike.
This probably doesn't clear anything up for you, does it? Trust me, gearing will not affect a dyno at all, just how long it takes to make the run. If you think about it, changing sprocket gearing is the same as changing the gears in the transmission. Most dyno operators choose 3rd or 4th for several reasons. First, it makes the curve smoother by allowing more data aquisition points. Second, the gear is high enough to prevent tire slippage. Third, the gear is low enough so that the dyno run is quick. And fourth, it's low enough so that the wheel and chain speeds stay safe.
HP = (Torque x rpm) / 5252
Changing gearing will NOT change either hp or torque. It will change how the power feels to you while riding the bike.
This probably doesn't clear anything up for you, does it? Trust me, gearing will not affect a dyno at all, just how long it takes to make the run. If you think about it, changing sprocket gearing is the same as changing the gears in the transmission. Most dyno operators choose 3rd or 4th for several reasons. First, it makes the curve smoother by allowing more data aquisition points. Second, the gear is high enough to prevent tire slippage. Third, the gear is low enough so that the dyno run is quick. And fourth, it's low enough so that the wheel and chain speeds stay safe.
#26
I know gearing doesn't affect horsepower and torque of the motor. But if the rate of change of speed of the rear tire is greater due to gearing changes, that means that torque is greater, right? I'm still talking about rwhp and torque here, not at the crankshaft.
#27
Nope, no different, and I'm talking the same thing. Okay, say you put a larger sprocket on the rear, let's say we go to a 45t. That's 10% larger. This will give you a 10% change in rpm, agree? 45/41=1.10 Now, put the bike on the dyno and you will do a dyno run 10% quicker from start to finish. This means that in the time it took to reach 5000 rpm on the stock bike, you're now at 5500 rpm with the 45t. Remember, torque is the TIME rate of change of acceleration. See, the two offset each other. The time is quicker but the rpm is higher. Understand now?
#28
Sorry, but torque has nothing to do with time. Torque is simply rotational force. T=F x r. When you re-gear the bike, you are effectively increasing the force transmitted from the engine to the rear wheel, as the radius of the rear wheel stays constant. This is why putting a worn tire makes the horsepower read higher: The torque at the rear wheel gear is the same, but the ratio of that gear to the radius of the tire increases, thus showing 'apparent' horsepower increase at the road. Horsepower = T x RPM / 5252.
The force available from the engine, assuming no change except gearing between dyno runs, is constant, thus the torque curve shape will be the same. What will change is the torque/horsepower vs road speed. With horsepower in the vertical, and road speed in the horizontal, the graph will move up and left. The goal in re-gearing is to get the graph to move up more than left, so you run out of 'gear' and 'motor' at approximately the same speed. This is why some stock geared bikes won't pull redline in 6th (Gear ratio too tall), and why a stunt-geared bike will pull redline in 6th, but tops out way slower (gear too short). People often state that when you re-gear, you're trading horsepower for torque. This is incorrect. You're trading speed for both torque and horsepower.
The force available from the engine, assuming no change except gearing between dyno runs, is constant, thus the torque curve shape will be the same. What will change is the torque/horsepower vs road speed. With horsepower in the vertical, and road speed in the horizontal, the graph will move up and left. The goal in re-gearing is to get the graph to move up more than left, so you run out of 'gear' and 'motor' at approximately the same speed. This is why some stock geared bikes won't pull redline in 6th (Gear ratio too tall), and why a stunt-geared bike will pull redline in 6th, but tops out way slower (gear too short). People often state that when you re-gear, you're trading horsepower for torque. This is incorrect. You're trading speed for both torque and horsepower.
#29
effective torque increases but wheel torque does not. chassis dynos don't measure torque, they measure horsepower and calculate torque from that. with correct ratios and wheel size the wheel hp and tq will always be the same
#30
Gearing has nothing to do with it. dyno calculations correct for it. You don't make more power with gearing, it's just a matter of where you make the power.
Example, if max hp is at 7K RPM gearing will only change if you are going 30mph or 120mph at 7K rpm.
Example, if max hp is at 7K RPM gearing will only change if you are going 30mph or 120mph at 7K rpm.