twist

oh, my! some one pee in yer cheerios today?

j shizzy wizzy

XDS .45

HRCA#1

Jeez, let's not repeat the war of 1812! Although I would ask the Brits how they felt when that soldier was beheaded in broad daylight? Where were the Bobbies?

In this country I would hope that someone with a carry permit would be around to put a stop to that! I don't care if a cop is 2 minutes away if I've only got seconds to defend my life!

brothermike

Kimber TLE/RLII One of New Yorks finest exports.

NHSH

Here is how they ride in Syria now days

Skidmarkart

SR9...

Don't get concealed carry. The whole point of having a gun is mutually assured destruction. It's like the Doomsday Device in Dr. Strangelove. There's not a lot of point in having one unless other people know you have it. Unless, of course, you actually want to shoot someone. Which would make you a psychopath.

Flame away.

Where I grew up, we settled stuff with a fight. Bullshitted about who won. Had a beer, and moved on. It's sad what **** has come to these days.

7moore7

Not to pick your "flame away" instigation apart, because ideally no one would need guns anywhere, but I'd like to point out a few reasons why people would want to concealed carry:

One might argue that carrying open not only singles you out to actual threats, but creates tension in areas where people are unfamiliar with firearms. Or, in another way of looking at it, in an open-carry only situation, criminals know exactly who has what firearms and where. In a concealed carry situation, they know people may have firearms, but don't know who or where. I would think it would be easier to asses a plan in the first situation.

Suggesting that people who carry concealed want to shoot other people seems to have a couple of loopholes. First off, what are you suggesting people who carry open want to do with their firearm? Stir their beer with it? Match their boots? Open carrying without intent of using the weapon seems very self endangering as well as threatening to others. It is also suggesting that concealed carry people actually want to use the weapon... which is the same as saying you want to crash when you wear a motorcycle helmet. Ideally it would stay shinny and out of the record books, but you don't put a helmet on right before you crash, right? So why would carrying be any different?

Some might say that the whole point of having a gun is not to intimidate others (aggressive) but to protect themselves (defensive).

There are of course good reasons for everything (concealed carry, no carry, open carry laws), and generally there are a ton of gray areas and cultural and regional differences to take into consideration that will never end in a full agreement, but I just wanted to fill you in on the reasons people may consider open carry not as beneficial as concealed carry.

I know the Swedes and Canadians wonder what the heck hand guns are even for when they have all of their hunting rifles lying around, and inner city people with very high gun crime rate are wondering how we can support selling guns in the first place when only criminals have them and they tend to shoot each other and bystanders, but suggesting that concealed carry supporters are psychopaths and open carry is the way to go may not get the best of civil discussions.

Skidmarkart

I get your perspective. Not trying to argue, to each his own I guess.

But there's always going to be some dumb***, or drunk, or stupid person who doesn't make the assumption that someone might be carrying. Think we just had a big trial about that.

On the other side, there's always something going on outside of your business that may (justifiably from time to time) warrant your attention. Some dude beating up his girlfriend, someone creeping around your property, or someone in your neighborhood who (in your perspective) might be suspicious (all things I have experienced). Someone carrying a gun (concealed or not) may take chances that they would not without a gun. Think we just had a big trial about that.

Not trying to start an argument at all. Just, in my perspective, better to have it out where everyone can see it. Whomever you're dealing with knows you have it. No mistakes there. If you decided to get involved in anything, there's no surprises.

As to your perspective about being a known threat - I cannot argue with that, but I guess I would take my chances with that over the first two problems.

Not trying to suggest anyone who chooses concealed is crazy... just that it is a first strike move... there's a perceived advantage to that in game theory, but not one I want to take advantage of. Ever heard of anyone getting shot first in a shooting - because they had a gun?

7moore7

Yeah that's what the media said... but that's a different story. Media seems so scripted and full of fear exploitation that I don't take it seriously. Except when the drones come to take me away in a few years after they run algorithms on stored public forum data and find that I'm a threat to the safety of the general public muahahahah!

But back to the other thing...

I think it's all about context. Concealed could work as a deterrent, but it has to be known that the area is concealed carry and that people take advantage of being legally able to do this. If these are known, it could be seen as more threatening to criminals as they do not know who or how many people have firearms. Every single mass shooting in the U.S. since Columbine (excepting one) was in an area where firearms were explicitly forbidden and usually high concentration of people- malls, schools, theaters, etc. While this is correlation, it does suggest that premeditative criminals (the true psychopaths and media attention seekers) look for areas of least resistance to do as much damage as possible.

Now, if you were to only allow open carry in these circumstances, two things could happen. The potential criminal will wait until they see no more open carry weapons and then strike. Or they could strike anyway, knowing which people they must make sure won't be a threat first... meaning all the ones they see with a gun...

I'm not trying to make a mean argument, but am curious about all the different views, I am certainly not hard set in my ways. There seem to be very persuasive ideas all around when the banter doesn't get personal and off track. I know back home in Colorado if people were walking around with 45's in the backcountry and rifles over their shoulder, I wouldn't blink an eye. In certain areas in Phoenix it would certainly get my attention.

brothermike

Well said,

HRCA#1

I have friends in southeast PA a "Shall issue" state, they all have ccp and they live in an area between 3 very mixed cities. The crime rate is next to nothing. The city/suburban thugs don't bother anybody because they know everybody there probably has a CCP. I was there for a year in 2009 hardly ever heard a siren!

woodsrider1

Glock 27. Concealed with permit,

Stumpy

FNS 40 S&W but I have a ? can I carry my AR-15 over the back with a strap while riding my bike to the shooting range or gun fight or whatever legally