Questions for the computer gurus
12-28-2009, 05:24 PM
#1
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shreveport / Bossier City
Posts: 363
Questions for the computer gurus
Not too long after the beginning of the year, I'm going to be looking for a new Desktop computer. (I hate laptops. Dont know why, I just always have)
Anywho, my current old desktop is a Dell dimension 4500. It works decent, but like a stock bike, I want more. I have had to reformat this one probably 5-6 times in it's life due to the hard drive crashing, viruses etc... But overall, this has been a great computer for me. I took out the 80 gig hard drive and stuck in a 500 gig mainly to store all of my music, videos and pictures. I replaced the cd rom with a dvd drive, and that was cool as well... But like I said, I want more now.
I'm not afraid of trying to build a computer, but I do like the ease of having one pre-built with a warranty. I'm sure the individual parts I'd buy would have thier own warranties, but going the diy route would make me not have any kind of phone support either.
So I haven't really kept up with all of the new sound/video cards, or what new processors are out there, and that's where I'm stuck. I was on the Dell website and even though I did try to do research on the difference between a celeron processor and a dual core version, it's all gibberish to me since I haven't kept up with the new stuff.
In the end, what I'd like to be able to have is this:
a desktop that I can run several programs at once on without it locking up. A very good sound and video card (I'm not into gaming, so mainly for music videos and home camcorder movies) I'd like to be able to hook the pc up to my flatscreen in my bedroom, and have good quality picture and sound transferred to the tv. I'd like to somehow be able to have a surround sound that works with the tv as well as the desktop. (so I don't have to have several sets of speakers in there. Oh, and of course, I want the pc to be pretty damn fast when opening programs, shutting programs down etc.... And id also like to have a decent size monitor (20-22")
I'm open to any suggestions, even from the MAC crowd. Im guessing i should have a budget of around $1500 or less when i go to do this.
So, what do you guys think?
Anywho, my current old desktop is a Dell dimension 4500. It works decent, but like a stock bike, I want more. I have had to reformat this one probably 5-6 times in it's life due to the hard drive crashing, viruses etc... But overall, this has been a great computer for me. I took out the 80 gig hard drive and stuck in a 500 gig mainly to store all of my music, videos and pictures. I replaced the cd rom with a dvd drive, and that was cool as well... But like I said, I want more now.
I'm not afraid of trying to build a computer, but I do like the ease of having one pre-built with a warranty. I'm sure the individual parts I'd buy would have thier own warranties, but going the diy route would make me not have any kind of phone support either.
So I haven't really kept up with all of the new sound/video cards, or what new processors are out there, and that's where I'm stuck. I was on the Dell website and even though I did try to do research on the difference between a celeron processor and a dual core version, it's all gibberish to me since I haven't kept up with the new stuff.
In the end, what I'd like to be able to have is this:
a desktop that I can run several programs at once on without it locking up. A very good sound and video card (I'm not into gaming, so mainly for music videos and home camcorder movies) I'd like to be able to hook the pc up to my flatscreen in my bedroom, and have good quality picture and sound transferred to the tv. I'd like to somehow be able to have a surround sound that works with the tv as well as the desktop. (so I don't have to have several sets of speakers in there. Oh, and of course, I want the pc to be pretty damn fast when opening programs, shutting programs down etc.... And id also like to have a decent size monitor (20-22")
I'm open to any suggestions, even from the MAC crowd. Im guessing i should have a budget of around $1500 or less when i go to do this.
So, what do you guys think?
Last edited by Mike996; 12-28-2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: edit for budget
12-28-2009, 07:06 PM
#2
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
Any Core i5 or i7 based system will do. As much RAM as you can cram into it, and if you want really snappy a SSD to boot from. (either OCZ Vertex or Intel) Since you are not playing games, any add in video card should do (not on MB), but to make TV hookup easy get one with either displayport or HDMI and audio passthrough.
Those are my generic reccomendations. (hardware wise Macs are PCs just running a different OS)
Those are my generic reccomendations. (hardware wise Macs are PCs just running a different OS)
12-28-2009, 07:08 PM
#3
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 153
Learn to build your own. :)
Mike,
This isn’t for everyone but I live with the premium expense of building my own PC’s. When you build your own you live without the extra “crapware” companies put into their PC’s and you get the oversight of supervising your own installation of software. It usually is a better deal to go with a manufacturer’s prebuilt system because you may get an office suite of some sort. But when you build your own, you learn how to troubleshoot things all on your own. If warranties worried you, a good handful of manufacturers carry an excess of one year; my Asus motherboard and eVGA video card both have a three year warranty on them. If you had been considering building your own I recommend TweakGuides.com’s “Tweaking Companion” guides written by the site owner Koroush Ghazi; three are available, each for Win7, Vista, and XP. When you build your own PC, you have far more flexibility to do whatever it is you may want to do in terms of upgrading down the road. Prebuilt systems “sometimes” come with limited upgrading features – more importantly, they skimp on a LOT of hardware options on the motherboard.
If you want to run both video and audio out of your PC to a TV in another room, I believe an HDMI connection supports both at the same time (One cable takes care of both audio and video.). I don’t use HDMI currently, but I’m pretty sure that is one of the positive features about HDMI. Also if building or purchasing a prebuilt system, in the coming age of DRM (Digital Rights Management: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management) you will want to look into all of your hardware being HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection). I don’t know anything about this stuff but I know it is being implemented to inhibit the breaking of copy written material; you’ll have to look into those two last things – you’re on your own on those – like I said, I don’t know much about them, but as a consumer who is about to make an investment like you’re talking about, you need to look into that. Also, if the purchase of a dedicated video card is a part of your expenses, I believe either and/or ATI and nVidia have started to integrate HDMI outputs on their video cards. And when it comes to choosing a video card, since you’re working with A/V material I would highly recommend a dedicated video card.
When it comes to audio, usually the onboard audio (Integrated audio card into the motherboard) does a legitimate job for the most part; and if so, double check to make sure there’s a coax (Actually looks like an RCA output) and/or a SPDIF (Digital Optical) output. If you were looking to upgrade beyond the capabilities of the onboard soundcard – I went with Creative Lab’s PCIe X-Fi Sound Blaster.
Concerning the CPU, do NOT skimp on this. Going with a Celeron is just absolutely NOT the way to go when working with A/V media. I couldn’t recommend enough an Intel Core 2 Duo series CPU (Not the Celeron OR Pentium series). I run a “best bang for the buck” E8400 which is under the 775PGA interface. However – we are in the transition to another format, under the i3, i5, and i7 series (1366PGA and 1156PGA I think). You want your investment to be “future ready” as much as possible – and with that, going with one of the “I” series is going to be a better investment for “future proofing” your hardware. 775PGA is on the way out the door, but it is still alive; just remember that it is an older technology whereby future 775PGA and DDR3 are not supported. When working under the 775PGA configuration you’ll be working with DDR2 RAM. I could go on about either investment but those are things you’ll have to research. There was something else I wanted to say about this and am completely drawing a blank. I’m sure it will come to me after I’ve posted this. (Ah ha! I remember now… :P ) Most software out there is written with x86 (32bit) code. Make sure you make the right decision about what kind of operating system (OS) you want to go with, be it x86 or x64. Because Windows x86 OS’s only support up to 3Gb’s or so of RAM. The x64 versions of Vista and Win7 I believe support up to 16Gb of RAM. Also of importance is the fact that almost all software written out there “truly” supports only up to two cores CPU’s. A quad-core can at times give you a performance boost and it is “future proof” to some degree. …Another thing about going with a x64 OS: In order to benefit from a x64 configuration that your drivers are written in x64, the software you’re working with supports x64 and the hardware supports x64. Otherwise you don’t gain any benefit out of investing in a x64 OS. Yes, x64 is the “next thing” to come, but some x86 software is not supported under x64. (I think I said all that right…) Also, if your running XP currently and intend to have your new PC made with Win7 – make sure the software your currently using will run in Win7 – if it is known to not work in Vista, it may well not work in Win7.
When purchasing ROM drives, try to invest in SATA interfaces. There isn’t really much of a performance gain here but it is a sound investment – and also pulls a lot of the clutter of ribbon wiring inside of your PC when you get in there to work.
And you talk about a “decent” sized monitor being 20-22”, I just say lay down the $270 or whatever it is for a 24” 16:10. They are worth the investment if you’re working with multiple pieces of software at once.
Finally, if you go with your own or prebuilt system, you have to make sure you know how to maintain it. It’s just like changing the oil or an air filter on a bike. PC’s really do have to be maintained. Through software patches and driver updates for example. Investing in an aftermarket defragmentation utility is highly recommended, and one with a “boot time” defrag’ function (Very important).
Anyway, this should get you off to a good start for the time being. And remember to head over to TweakGuides.com to check out the OS guides there. Way back in the day, those helped me out quite a bit with learning some things I didn’t know about; there’s a lot of reading but their meant to work as guides. So you could pull a little information from this and that as you made your way along.
PS: I have heard that one of the PGA formats for the i3, i5, i7 series will be cut out at somepoint soon. I don't know which but it is important for you to confirm this - that's all I've heard. Because if this is true, then that means your CPU will not be "future proof" (Ex: Upgrading your CPU down the road when something new comes along.). For example, with my 775PGA setup - this config' is on it's way out the door; however it has been successful since it's introduction back in '04 or something and is just now coming to it's EoL (End of Life).
-Spaz’
This isn’t for everyone but I live with the premium expense of building my own PC’s. When you build your own you live without the extra “crapware” companies put into their PC’s and you get the oversight of supervising your own installation of software. It usually is a better deal to go with a manufacturer’s prebuilt system because you may get an office suite of some sort. But when you build your own, you learn how to troubleshoot things all on your own. If warranties worried you, a good handful of manufacturers carry an excess of one year; my Asus motherboard and eVGA video card both have a three year warranty on them. If you had been considering building your own I recommend TweakGuides.com’s “Tweaking Companion” guides written by the site owner Koroush Ghazi; three are available, each for Win7, Vista, and XP. When you build your own PC, you have far more flexibility to do whatever it is you may want to do in terms of upgrading down the road. Prebuilt systems “sometimes” come with limited upgrading features – more importantly, they skimp on a LOT of hardware options on the motherboard.
If you want to run both video and audio out of your PC to a TV in another room, I believe an HDMI connection supports both at the same time (One cable takes care of both audio and video.). I don’t use HDMI currently, but I’m pretty sure that is one of the positive features about HDMI. Also if building or purchasing a prebuilt system, in the coming age of DRM (Digital Rights Management: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management) you will want to look into all of your hardware being HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection). I don’t know anything about this stuff but I know it is being implemented to inhibit the breaking of copy written material; you’ll have to look into those two last things – you’re on your own on those – like I said, I don’t know much about them, but as a consumer who is about to make an investment like you’re talking about, you need to look into that. Also, if the purchase of a dedicated video card is a part of your expenses, I believe either and/or ATI and nVidia have started to integrate HDMI outputs on their video cards. And when it comes to choosing a video card, since you’re working with A/V material I would highly recommend a dedicated video card.
When it comes to audio, usually the onboard audio (Integrated audio card into the motherboard) does a legitimate job for the most part; and if so, double check to make sure there’s a coax (Actually looks like an RCA output) and/or a SPDIF (Digital Optical) output. If you were looking to upgrade beyond the capabilities of the onboard soundcard – I went with Creative Lab’s PCIe X-Fi Sound Blaster.
Concerning the CPU, do NOT skimp on this. Going with a Celeron is just absolutely NOT the way to go when working with A/V media. I couldn’t recommend enough an Intel Core 2 Duo series CPU (Not the Celeron OR Pentium series). I run a “best bang for the buck” E8400 which is under the 775PGA interface. However – we are in the transition to another format, under the i3, i5, and i7 series (1366PGA and 1156PGA I think). You want your investment to be “future ready” as much as possible – and with that, going with one of the “I” series is going to be a better investment for “future proofing” your hardware. 775PGA is on the way out the door, but it is still alive; just remember that it is an older technology whereby future 775PGA and DDR3 are not supported. When working under the 775PGA configuration you’ll be working with DDR2 RAM. I could go on about either investment but those are things you’ll have to research. There was something else I wanted to say about this and am completely drawing a blank. I’m sure it will come to me after I’ve posted this. (Ah ha! I remember now… :P ) Most software out there is written with x86 (32bit) code. Make sure you make the right decision about what kind of operating system (OS) you want to go with, be it x86 or x64. Because Windows x86 OS’s only support up to 3Gb’s or so of RAM. The x64 versions of Vista and Win7 I believe support up to 16Gb of RAM. Also of importance is the fact that almost all software written out there “truly” supports only up to two cores CPU’s. A quad-core can at times give you a performance boost and it is “future proof” to some degree. …Another thing about going with a x64 OS: In order to benefit from a x64 configuration that your drivers are written in x64, the software you’re working with supports x64 and the hardware supports x64. Otherwise you don’t gain any benefit out of investing in a x64 OS. Yes, x64 is the “next thing” to come, but some x86 software is not supported under x64. (I think I said all that right…) Also, if your running XP currently and intend to have your new PC made with Win7 – make sure the software your currently using will run in Win7 – if it is known to not work in Vista, it may well not work in Win7.
When purchasing ROM drives, try to invest in SATA interfaces. There isn’t really much of a performance gain here but it is a sound investment – and also pulls a lot of the clutter of ribbon wiring inside of your PC when you get in there to work.
And you talk about a “decent” sized monitor being 20-22”, I just say lay down the $270 or whatever it is for a 24” 16:10. They are worth the investment if you’re working with multiple pieces of software at once.
Finally, if you go with your own or prebuilt system, you have to make sure you know how to maintain it. It’s just like changing the oil or an air filter on a bike. PC’s really do have to be maintained. Through software patches and driver updates for example. Investing in an aftermarket defragmentation utility is highly recommended, and one with a “boot time” defrag’ function (Very important).
Anyway, this should get you off to a good start for the time being. And remember to head over to TweakGuides.com to check out the OS guides there. Way back in the day, those helped me out quite a bit with learning some things I didn’t know about; there’s a lot of reading but their meant to work as guides. So you could pull a little information from this and that as you made your way along.
PS: I have heard that one of the PGA formats for the i3, i5, i7 series will be cut out at somepoint soon. I don't know which but it is important for you to confirm this - that's all I've heard. Because if this is true, then that means your CPU will not be "future proof" (Ex: Upgrading your CPU down the road when something new comes along.). For example, with my 775PGA setup - this config' is on it's way out the door; however it has been successful since it's introduction back in '04 or something and is just now coming to it's EoL (End of Life).
-Spaz’
Last edited by Spaz'; 12-28-2009 at 07:13 PM.
12-28-2009, 07:58 PM
#4
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Buy a Mac and never look back. The hardware and software are developed to work together. It uses a Unix backbone for stability.
My biggest gripe with Windows is that they keep promising something new, and they never provide. Even Windows 7 is still based on Windows NT from 1993. It is not robust, it is not reliable. They keep putting extra little stuff in it to make it more attractive.
IF they were to offer something new for the BILLIONS of dollars that they NET in profit, then I might be more willing to suggest it as an option.
I have a Mac from 1999 that still performs well. Don't use it very often, since I have this Windows laptop in the living room.
For the record, I'm a Navy IT guy and have been trained on the Windows stuff, so I know it. My personal preference is the Mac.
It's Robust, it's reliable, it all works together with no hiccups or blue screens of death.
My biggest gripe with Windows is that they keep promising something new, and they never provide. Even Windows 7 is still based on Windows NT from 1993. It is not robust, it is not reliable. They keep putting extra little stuff in it to make it more attractive.
IF they were to offer something new for the BILLIONS of dollars that they NET in profit, then I might be more willing to suggest it as an option.
I have a Mac from 1999 that still performs well. Don't use it very often, since I have this Windows laptop in the living room.
For the record, I'm a Navy IT guy and have been trained on the Windows stuff, so I know it. My personal preference is the Mac.
It's Robust, it's reliable, it all works together with no hiccups or blue screens of death.
12-28-2009, 08:30 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nooksack WA
Posts: 834
I use only Macs at home. PCs at work. PCs don't measure up when it comes to stability and ease of maintenance. Unless I had a very specific need for a PC, I wouldn't even consider one. I am currently in the 3rd year with an iMac. +1 to Erik S.
12-28-2009, 08:40 PM
#6
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 987
You can install openoffice from openoffice.org instead of paying for Microsoft's stuff. So far so good for casual usage. I can always use the work pc for anything it can't handle. Haven't run into that yet though.
I used to always have desktops, and after getting a laptop, I'll never look back. The convenience is worth the extra cost and lower performance. I just invested $150 in a new battery though, ugh... But I figured my Dell is still plenty for what I use it for. The **** sold nowadays is complete overkill, and it seems hard to actually buy only what you need.
Sorry Charlie, but you don't need 6 gigs of ram to "watch youtube videos" or a $400 word processing suite to type a letter to grandma.
Every time I've "upgraded" to a new computer, it's never been faster than the old one was when new. It's like chasing your tail. As fast as you can increase operating speed, Bill Gates or someone else will find away to hog the extra resources.
The last laptop I had I finally had to get rid of because one row of keys failed, an inch of the monitor took a ****, the battery was dead, and the usb ports were damaged.
I haven't tried Mac much yet, it seems like a foreign language when I try to use one. I don't doubt that it's a superior system though. If it had more users, and wasn't such a price premium, I'd be more likely to try it. I guess one reason I liked PC in college was the ease of pirating software. PCs are unreliable because they try to support a larger variety of 3rd party software with ghetto programming... it's inevitable. Jack of all trades, master of none.
I used to always have desktops, and after getting a laptop, I'll never look back. The convenience is worth the extra cost and lower performance. I just invested $150 in a new battery though, ugh... But I figured my Dell is still plenty for what I use it for. The **** sold nowadays is complete overkill, and it seems hard to actually buy only what you need.
Sorry Charlie, but you don't need 6 gigs of ram to "watch youtube videos" or a $400 word processing suite to type a letter to grandma.
Every time I've "upgraded" to a new computer, it's never been faster than the old one was when new. It's like chasing your tail. As fast as you can increase operating speed, Bill Gates or someone else will find away to hog the extra resources.
The last laptop I had I finally had to get rid of because one row of keys failed, an inch of the monitor took a ****, the battery was dead, and the usb ports were damaged.
I haven't tried Mac much yet, it seems like a foreign language when I try to use one. I don't doubt that it's a superior system though. If it had more users, and wasn't such a price premium, I'd be more likely to try it. I guess one reason I liked PC in college was the ease of pirating software. PCs are unreliable because they try to support a larger variety of 3rd party software with ghetto programming... it's inevitable. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; 12-28-2009 at 08:48 PM.
12-28-2009, 09:14 PM
#8
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shreveport / Bossier City
Posts: 363
Right on! I love all the responses so far!!! i knew I loved this site for a good reason!
Looks likes I have alot of Researching to do and I'll qppreciate anything anyone else adds
ThAnk you all again!!!
Looks likes I have alot of Researching to do and I'll qppreciate anything anyone else adds
ThAnk you all again!!!
12-28-2009, 09:17 PM
#9
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Belgium, WI
Posts: 1,611
Here is the deal, you are going to always have to decide between more money, better product, less money and questionable product. But with computers you have to pay twice the price to get it. I really don't think that it is worth it. I got a laptop because I needed one, but i would never buy a desktop. Build your own, dump the dough into a great tower (DO NOT GO CHEAP). Get something that comes with great ventilation, and don't go mini. Buy the fastest components that you are willing to spend money on, don't buy the software that you don't have to.
Use open source, maybe even google documents (which works well and you can save your files to a server off of your computer and have access whenever, where ever without having your computer there.
My 2 cents.
Use open source, maybe even google documents (which works well and you can save your files to a server off of your computer and have access whenever, where ever without having your computer there.
My 2 cents.
12-28-2009, 10:43 PM
#10
pragmatic anarchist
Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 380
Yeah, lots of good info here. I used Macs for years. Always a used one or a Powercomputing clone or a discounted one. A couple years ago I trash picked an old Celeron PC and put a little used memory and three hard drives in it. Loaded Ubuntu linux on it and had a nice quick email and surfing machine for almost nothing. Linux is so versatile, there are stripped down versions that will run in a few megs of ram, no hard drive needed, boot from a flash drive. Never got it to work real reliably with my Ipod though. Openoffice works with Microshaft documents better than previous versions of their own stuff. For what you want to do, though, a modern system is probably called for. My sons system right now is an older Imac and his 46 inch Sony with a wireless keyboard. Read SHForum with iTunes blasting while laying on the couch! Kids these days!
12-29-2009, 06:08 AM
#11
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Depends on what you want.
If price is a concern, do you have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Then look at the Mac Mini. Start at $600 I think. Very basic. Add an external HD for whatever capacity you need. You should do this anyhow, have a drive for the operating system and a separate drive for storage, that way your storage shouldn't get compromised if your OS drive crashes.
To me, it's like buy a Bentley or buying a Hyundai. The Mac is well built and planned, so it lasts longer with fewer problems. Some (not all) Windows are like Hyundais, they're throw aways, hence the lower price.
This is stating pretty calm. It usually turns into a heated debate. You're getting lots of good info. If you have an Apple store near you, at least go give them a look. They are the penultimate of user friendliness.
You could do a Mac Mini to your TV, like PeterPanic has setup. My dad is actually planning on doing this really soon.
For anyone, Mac offers what they call the Timecapsule. It's a wireless external HD, with 2 wireless cards for multiple connectivity, in 1TB or 2TB.
Good luck with your purchase.
If price is a concern, do you have a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Then look at the Mac Mini. Start at $600 I think. Very basic. Add an external HD for whatever capacity you need. You should do this anyhow, have a drive for the operating system and a separate drive for storage, that way your storage shouldn't get compromised if your OS drive crashes.
To me, it's like buy a Bentley or buying a Hyundai. The Mac is well built and planned, so it lasts longer with fewer problems. Some (not all) Windows are like Hyundais, they're throw aways, hence the lower price.
This is stating pretty calm. It usually turns into a heated debate. You're getting lots of good info. If you have an Apple store near you, at least go give them a look. They are the penultimate of user friendliness.
You could do a Mac Mini to your TV, like PeterPanic has setup. My dad is actually planning on doing this really soon.
For anyone, Mac offers what they call the Timecapsule. It's a wireless external HD, with 2 wireless cards for multiple connectivity, in 1TB or 2TB.
Good luck with your purchase.
12-29-2009, 07:15 AM
#12
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Win7 is actually more than 70% new code... A totaly new concept or Micro$oft...
It's actually quite good... It's so far been more stable than the Mac's... Not that that says much now that the Mac's have started using generic hardware (it has affected stability noticably)... I'm using a variety of machines and OS'es for their specific purpose... The most stable is Ubuntu... There is NO competition from either Mac or Win in that department...
For a pre-built laptop... = Mac...
For a pre-built stationary = PC (Win7)...
For anything not prebuilt I'd use Ubuntu and not bother paying for crap that's less than half beta tested once shipped...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-29-2009 at 07:18 AM.
12-29-2009, 07:50 AM
#13
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
If you want to try MacOS you could always run a hackintosh. That is MacOS on a PC. I have several friends who have purchased a copy of MacOS and done this.. It is kind of a gray area legally, but you can have a "Mac" for far less than Apple wants to charge for their sticker this way. (the basic hardware is the same these days, there is far less of a reason for Apples premium $$ than there used to be)
Personally I don't have near the issues with PC's my users seem to manage to find. My last PC ran xp for 6 years without needing a rebuild or slowing down. (just built new one on Win7) But then again I don't try to punch every monkey on the internet or click every link in an email. Nor do I install spyware etc on my PC.
The main reason Macs don't have as much viri or spyware for them compared to PCs is because they are not a big enough target for the malware authors to bother with. There are security issues etc being found in Macs all the time, but it'd be like picking on Lichtenstein... why? there just ain't enough of them to matter.
Personally I don't have near the issues with PC's my users seem to manage to find. My last PC ran xp for 6 years without needing a rebuild or slowing down. (just built new one on Win7) But then again I don't try to punch every monkey on the internet or click every link in an email. Nor do I install spyware etc on my PC.
The main reason Macs don't have as much viri or spyware for them compared to PCs is because they are not a big enough target for the malware authors to bother with. There are security issues etc being found in Macs all the time, but it'd be like picking on Lichtenstein... why? there just ain't enough of them to matter.
Last edited by lazn; 12-29-2009 at 07:58 AM.
12-29-2009, 01:54 PM
#14
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
LOL, I love it. All the technologically inclined people who still call Windows "PC", and Mac "Mac". Apple had the first "PC" and is still a "PC". LOL
Yes, Tweety, Win7 is a lot of new stuff, but it still is based on the same NT Kernel that all of the previous Windows failures were based on. I've even seen it called a "polished turd" by computer reviewers. You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.
Like I said, I'm not hating on Windows just to hate on them. I'm hating because they make so damned much money but don't turn any of it back to the consumer. It's not the hardware, because like you stated Mac and Windows run nearly identical software now. It's the damned programming. They don't do anything new.
Vista was an early release of what was supposed to be Longhorn. A completely new OS, but they hurried it out the door, and you get what you got. A system stacked full of errors.
None of the Windows OSs have worked well until they got to Service Pack 2. Hopefully Win7 will be different.
Lazn, you're correct. The smaller market share is the reason they don't have as many viruses. The big reason that Windows does, well, it ties into my rant. Nothing has changed since 1993. Use the same Kernel, the same coding, and well, the newest hacker can find a decade and a half of viruses to work from to learn how to hack Windows.
Each new Mac OS X, is new, it's not a Service Pack. Yes, Mac is at 10 years now with Mac OS X, but they've been giving new stuff along the way.
If we're talking money alone, for the $600, I'm going with a Mac Mini and re-using what I've got money invested in already. I can take old HDs out of cased, put them in external USB cases and have lots of storage available.
Yes, Tweety, Win7 is a lot of new stuff, but it still is based on the same NT Kernel that all of the previous Windows failures were based on. I've even seen it called a "polished turd" by computer reviewers. You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.
Like I said, I'm not hating on Windows just to hate on them. I'm hating because they make so damned much money but don't turn any of it back to the consumer. It's not the hardware, because like you stated Mac and Windows run nearly identical software now. It's the damned programming. They don't do anything new.
Vista was an early release of what was supposed to be Longhorn. A completely new OS, but they hurried it out the door, and you get what you got. A system stacked full of errors.
None of the Windows OSs have worked well until they got to Service Pack 2. Hopefully Win7 will be different.
Lazn, you're correct. The smaller market share is the reason they don't have as many viruses. The big reason that Windows does, well, it ties into my rant. Nothing has changed since 1993. Use the same Kernel, the same coding, and well, the newest hacker can find a decade and a half of viruses to work from to learn how to hack Windows.
Each new Mac OS X, is new, it's not a Service Pack. Yes, Mac is at 10 years now with Mac OS X, but they've been giving new stuff along the way.
If we're talking money alone, for the $600, I'm going with a Mac Mini and re-using what I've got money invested in already. I can take old HDs out of cased, put them in external USB cases and have lots of storage available.
12-29-2009, 02:02 PM
#15
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
(edit: or that we don't call Canadians: American)Blame that on Apple's "I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC ads."
Really the best "PC" was the Commodore Amiga, but bureaucracy and management killed that one.. lol
Last edited by lazn; 12-29-2009 at 02:12 PM.
12-29-2009, 02:45 PM
#17
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Yes, Tweety, Win7 is a lot of new stuff, but it still is based on the same NT Kernel that all of the previous Windows failures were based on. I've even seen it called a "polished turd" by computer reviewers. You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.
Like I said, I'm not hating on Windows just to hate on them. I'm hating because they make so damned much money but don't turn any of it back to the consumer. It's not the hardware, because like you stated Mac and Windows run nearly identical software now. It's the damned programming. They don't do anything new.
Vista was an early release of what was supposed to be Longhorn. A completely new OS, but they hurried it out the door, and you get what you got. A system stacked full of errors.
None of the Windows OSs have worked well until they got to Service Pack 2. Hopefully Win7 will be different.
Lazn, you're correct. The smaller market share is the reason they don't have as many viruses. The big reason that Windows does, well, it ties into my rant. Nothing has changed since 1993. Use the same Kernel, the same coding, and well, the newest hacker can find a decade and a half of viruses to work from to learn how to hack Windows.
Each new Mac OS X, is new, it's not a Service Pack. Yes, Mac is at 10 years now with Mac OS X, but they've been giving new stuff along the way.
If we're talking money alone, for the $600, I'm going with a Mac Mini and re-using what I've got money invested in already. I can take old HDs out of cased, put them in external USB cases and have lots of storage available.
Like I said, I'm not hating on Windows just to hate on them. I'm hating because they make so damned much money but don't turn any of it back to the consumer. It's not the hardware, because like you stated Mac and Windows run nearly identical software now. It's the damned programming. They don't do anything new.
Vista was an early release of what was supposed to be Longhorn. A completely new OS, but they hurried it out the door, and you get what you got. A system stacked full of errors.
None of the Windows OSs have worked well until they got to Service Pack 2. Hopefully Win7 will be different.
Lazn, you're correct. The smaller market share is the reason they don't have as many viruses. The big reason that Windows does, well, it ties into my rant. Nothing has changed since 1993. Use the same Kernel, the same coding, and well, the newest hacker can find a decade and a half of viruses to work from to learn how to hack Windows.
Each new Mac OS X, is new, it's not a Service Pack. Yes, Mac is at 10 years now with Mac OS X, but they've been giving new stuff along the way.
If we're talking money alone, for the $600, I'm going with a Mac Mini and re-using what I've got money invested in already. I can take old HDs out of cased, put them in external USB cases and have lots of storage available.
And yeah it's based on an "old" NT kernel... That is actualy newer than the Unix kernel that is the base for the Mac OS... So? And the kernel in itself is actually as stable as the Unix one (which incidently has had exactly 3 upgrades during the lifetime of Macintosh, which is less than Windows)... And has about the same functionality...
What was the failure of Vista and all the others was that they took the old kernel AND the old OS and heaped a bunch of new functions and GUI's on it...
In Win7 they actually threw all the old code away and started a new, building the same funtionality with new code only the base kernel remains... Like they should have done years ago... (Which is also the reason about 30-40% of the current crop of viruses just became impotent...)
Before you talk to much about Win7 run it for a while... I actually have found it to be more stable than Mac OS... And I don't even like Windows...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-29-2009 at 02:48 PM.
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