motormouth

I bought these manual CCT's from another forum member . I installed them and rode the bike once before deciding to swap back to the OEM tensioners . They work fine and look pretty good . I just prefer the OEM . I paid $70 shipped . First $50 shipped in the lower 48 takes them .

motogomojo

That's a killer deal!!..............I wish you had these up a week ago...,would have saved me 70$ vs the APE's I just installed.

Anyone looking to switch to manuals better buy these quick!You will not see a better bargain.

ranchomice

Funny, I did the same thing motormouth.

motormouth

Pmed .

20_rc51_00

curious why would you prefer them to the stock? how does it make the bike feel different?

Tweety

If properly tensioned CCT's make a little noise during warm up... That tends to make people nervous... I prefer that to a 30 second warning before things go clang with a failed OEM tensioner... But to each their own...

Also if improperly tensioned, manual CCT's make a lot of noise... All the time... I'm willing to bet that the people that removed them followed the "manual" APE supplies on how to tension them, instead of doing it by ear... In that case it's probably lucky they did swap... And no, it's not impossible to get a manual CCT to be quiet... How would a OEM CCT be able to do something a manual isn't? the only thing they do is to tension a chain...

nothing

my Apes are very quiet, adjusted them by ear once warmed up, and the engine sounds smooth and phenomenal!

bump! lol

iyaoyas98

I'll take them. PM me your PP address, or how you want paid.

motormouth

The OEM tensioners supply the precise tension needed for operation and provide consistent tension between the cylinders . I got these quiet by ear but the guess work of adjusting by ear seems that it could possibly / eventually cause uneven or premature wear of the cam chain . I have the original OEM's from '99 and still no failure . I think replacing the OEM's with the same will be sufficient . 11 years of service with no problems and no guess work .

motormouth

You are next in line if first deal falls through .

motormouth

sold .

Tweety

I'm not disputing that the stock CCT's do a good job... They do...

But let's not fool ourselves... They do not "autoadjust" giving you constant pressure in any way... That is simply just bogus, there are no intelligent life in there, it's a simple and fairly "dumb" mechanism...

The mechanism is a ratcheting mechanism with a spring... It only adjust when the pressure drops enough to trigger it, ie when the chain lashes on deceleration, and the spring has proven to be the weak point, and the cause of the failures... That means reasonably the spring is pretty variable, ie even when it hasn't failed it highly likely to be "uneven" between the two CCT's...

As for "guesswork"... Either you aren't very experienced in wrenching bikes or cars, or you are just generalising heavily (Or you have a history of blown engines...)

The guesswork as you call it, in adjusting things are much more precise than any other method of measuring and adjusting... It's very common as a measuring device working on engines... And the reason is that it works a lot better than many other ways... I personaly know a mechanic that can listen to a bike going by at full song and tell me how to tune the carbs... And trust me, he beats the dyno 9 times out of 10... His ears are more precise than a hightech device for thousands of dollars...

If the CCT's are tensioned to the point where the chain is as quiet as possible once the engine is at operating temp, the chain is tensioned absolutely correct, not enough to cause excessive wear, not loose enough to move about, causing the chain to jump... That's the same point that the OEM CCT ends up at... The variation on warm up is then compensated in the spring, but not enough pressure to trigger the adjustment...

So, if you want to run OEM CCT's fine... Good choice, just change them at reasonable intervalls, 11 more years on the new one's seems like pushing it, based on the fact that now at 11 years of age things are getting worn, but another 5+ years should be safe...

But... Do not make generalised statements like that, projecting them as truth and expect not to get called on it... If you wan't to discuss the facts, fine, I'll discuss it... I'm not saying I have the absolute thruth, but it's definetly more nuanced than what you make it out to be...

motormouth

Hey Tweety , What are your credentials ? Are you a mechanic ? I am a practing tech and while i do not know it all i am definetly not your typical schmooze . I have wrenched for a while and rode most of my life . I know when i see junk and those manuals are junk . I agree that the OEM's should be changed every few years but who asked you ? I post a thread to sell a part i deem unacceptable for my motor and you "call me on it" . Why dont you post your own threads on how smart you are , and i will stick to what i am being taught which is wrenching . Also , who said anything about auto adjusting ? No sh*t they dont auto adjust smarty pants .

lazn

I really wouldn't question Tweety if I were you.. lol.. Not sure if he will bother to respond or not, but let's just say he probably taught the person you hoped to learn from how to repair a motor.

edit: this is from memory, He is the only person on this board who has rebuilt ~5 engines due to cct failures (not all his bike) has 4 VTR engines in his garage right now all in different states of tune, has his own dyno in his garage, has built his VTR (on his own) to the state of running circles around "better" bikes, teaches university level courses, and is all around one of the most helpful (if not always polite, but we love that about him) people on this forum.

Tweety

I have worked in a bike shop as a mechanic... Not that that qualifies for anything with the average standard of mechanics, trained or selftaught...
Oh, BTW, that's not a slight to you... That's an observation on the average standard on mechaincs that I have dealt with...

The manuals are junk? Ok... That's an opinion, and stating it as an opinion is fine... Stating it as fact is not...
My opinion is that properly set, they do exactly the same work as OEM, but with fewer parts that can fail... Then it's obvious that it's up to the user to set them properly and check them occasionally...

Let's agree to disagree on that one, shall we?

No, I did not "call you" on selling stuff... Feel free to sell things anyway you like... But to me it seems counterproductive to call things "junk" when selling them... I responded to a question, and if you look objective on it, I actually put a more positive spin on the item you where selling than you...

I did point out some generalisations you made when talking about the differences on OEM vs manual CCT's... Feel free to correct any of what I said there if you believe I'm wrong on any of it...

Heh... I'm wrong on many occasions... Mostly I say I'm wrong... Sometimes not... And nobody hears me swearing when I'm alone in the garage... There are lot's of people here that I still learn from... I'm a fairly "bad" mechanic actually, but on the good side I'm persistent... And I have had my own bike down to it's smallest parts more than once and put it back together, so I have learned some stuff along the way...

I like discussions... And No, PC or being overly polite has never been my strength...

BTW, it's probably a good idea to mention that the university level classes are on electronics, not mechanics... So not entirely related...

lazn

We know you aren't perfect, none of us are. I just figured it'd sound better if I came out swinging rather than you about yourself.

Oh, and motormouth don't let this chase you away from the forum, we don't mind differing views. But do expect those who disagree to say something. LOL

ranchomice

[quote=Tweety;276359]If properly tensioned CCT's make a little noise during warm up... That tends to make people nervous... I prefer that to a 30 second warning before things go clang with a failed OEM tensioner... But to each their own...

Also if improperly tensioned, manual CCT's make a lot of noise... All the time... I'm willing to bet that the people that removed them followed the "manual" APE supplies on how to tension them, instead of doing it by ear... In that case it's probably lucky they did swap... And no, it's not impossible to get a manual CCT to be quiet... How would a OEM CCT be able to do something a manual isn't? the only thing they do is to tension a chain...[/quot

I tried to "do it by ear" and after a full turn and no change in sound I decided to go back to stock which proved to be like night and day. From what I've heard if you are willing to do less engine braking and change the stockers out every so often, they do well. To each his own is right in this case. I think we hear about the failures MUCH more than we hear about the thousands of bikes that have never had a problem. Like Mike with his 80k on stockers.

motormouth

OOOKKK . Sure . Item is sold . Dead thread .

residentg

I need to jump in too. Properly adjusted APEs are quiet, built well, and are cheap insurance. The Riders on the Storm look nice in the photos, but I have not seen one in person. I posted the APE instructions for setting the tension in the KB, they resently revised the procedure. It is a good starting point, but you should do final adjust via sound (just like how Honda tells us to adjust their OHV Single CCTs, look in the service manuals for XRs)

I read about OEM failures all the time, I have not read any threads on manual failures, but I may have missed one. I equate using OEM CCTs to smoking cigarettes, eventually it will kill you.

I have 4 OEM CCTs and a pack of Camels for sale if you want them.

JB

RWhisen

Filtered or unfiltered?

residentg

unfiltered

lazn

LOL. He has been around for years and thousands of posts and has shown he knows his stuff.

How's that for a more reasonable response? (Ya, I was being a bit of a but what fun is reason?)