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Throttle freeplay

Old 09-08-2013, 08:23 PM
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Throttle freeplay

So after trying to adjust out the freeplay between on & off throttle, I find that after lifting tank & airbox to mess with pull cable, I still cant get the freeplay out without feeling the 2 cables are fighting each other.

I have adjusted these many times & never had this issue. Anyone have this issue? Old stretched cable maybe?
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:16 PM
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I removed the push cable no more fuss, lighter action.

James
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:51 AM
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HaHa! Yes, this is why I like (need) this forum! I have been doing that on my 3 racebikes for years and debating the benefits with my longtime garagemates. Somehow I was blind to it on the street.

Thanks deats...had the tank off twice late into last night but that is probly the best solution.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:35 AM
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The second pull cable is a lawyers idea, not an engineer's.

Removing it is a long favorite of those looking for lighter throttle action and wishing to reduce redundant parts that wear out.

If someone is the type to call the insurance company prior to each ride and confirm bike and personal coverages, changes underwear, well because mom always said... "What if you in an accident, you want dirty underpants?" and or is actually looking to buy one of the airbag riding suits hitting the market...... Removing the second pull throttle cable may not be for you

Last edited by E.Marquez; 09-09-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:40 AM
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There are airbag riding suits hitting the market?!?! I'm taking out my loan today. I'll let my insurance agent know during tomorrow morning's call.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:42 AM
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lol!^

Never thought about removing the push cable. I'm doing it tonight!
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:54 AM
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Yeah, well, leave your airbag riding suit at home too, danger seeker.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:57 AM
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If you've ever had your throttle plates ice up and stick open, you'll like the ability to close them with the other cable. Happened on my '68 CB 350 and they didn't have it. Wouldn't have been an issue if there hadn't been lots of snow and ice to complicate the slowdown and eventual shut off. Doesn't seem like a problem until you remember that the ignition was on the left under the front edge of the tank. Try reaching that while holding in the clutch with your left hand. Oh yeah, they didn't have kill switches then, either.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:54 PM
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Edit: Delete

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 09-09-2013 at 06:57 PM. Reason: oops.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:07 PM
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Ok so tank up for the last 3 nights. First 2 time were "adjustments", tonight just a cable-ectomy.

Feels great, and only took me 37min garage open to closed. Will tweak tomorrow.

Very awesome.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:11 PM
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Update. Maybe my most expensive teflon lube is just TOO good. Now it feels like ride by wire. No resistance.

More experimenting to ensue.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by thetophatflash View Post
If you've ever had your throttle plates ice up and stick open, you'll like the ability to close them with the other cable. Happened on my '68 CB 350 and they didn't have it. Wouldn't have been an issue if there hadn't been lots of snow and ice to complicate the slowdown and eventual shut off. Doesn't seem like a problem until you remember that the ignition was on the left under the front edge of the tank. Try reaching that while holding in the clutch with your left hand. Oh yeah, they didn't have kill switches then, either.
That sounds like a whole host of a nightmare, starting with this terrible "ice" you speak of.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:04 PM
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Are you guys putting a stronger return spring in there?
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:29 PM
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Stronger return spring........... A) how, and B) Why?
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:43 PM
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I'll stick with the two cable setup, thanks. You never know what could cause a butterfly to stick. It'll probably never happen but if it did, once would be too much.

As for a heavier return spring, if the single cable has any slack in the system accuracy would suffer. A heavier spring would fix that.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:04 PM
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I wonder if one could just wind it up another loop? Or somehow twist the lever end a bit more? Springs are picky sometimes.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:43 PM
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No, actually, a stiffer spring wouldnt take up any slack. Any spring will take up slack to the stop, then they.......stop. Slack can only be adjusted out.

But where do you shop for a heavier spring? You would have to do some dismantling of the carb action to even install it.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:58 PM
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Springs? Not sure why this is even being discussed. The throttle return spring is only 1/3 of the equation. Each carb has a slide, not a butterfly, and each slide has a super LONG spring with lots of recoil. With the throttle cable disconnected each slide closes on its own with no problem.

Racebikes run with one cable, dirtbikes run with one cable, and most bikes 1980's and back only had one cable. Not to go down the road of why the government insisted on the addition of a push cable, only to say it is not needed.

If the throttle sticks then hit the kill switch. If you can't do that fast enough, maybe you should be in a car.... just sayin'....


I just checked my Mitsubishi Lancer, and my Honda Odyssey. They only have one throttle cable, in a pull configuration.


Carb diagram showing the slide:
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oem-p...omponent-parts'


James
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by thedeatons View Post
Springs? Not sure why this is even being discussed. The throttle return spring is only 1/3 of the equation. Each carb has a slide, not a butterfly, and each slide has a super LONG spring with lots of recoil. With the throttle cable disconnected each slide closes on its own with no problem.



I just checked my Mitsubishi Lancer, and my Honda Odyssey. They only have one throttle cable, in a pull configuration.



James
Um, not really. Not sure what flat-slide carb setup you're imagining the SH comes with, but these are big CV carbs. Your wrist controls the butterflies via the throttle cables. The vaccum diaphragm slides are lifted (with resistance from the springs you mentioned) by the change in intake velocity passing through the venturi created by changes in how far those butterflies are opened.

The argument about cars not having them is a bit of a non-sequiter as well, considering cars utilize a pedal (a one way input device) where as bikes use a throttle tube (which can be a two way device, assuming you have two cables attached). Not saying what is "better" or simpler, but given that you can actually force the throttle closed, it is most certainly safer.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:40 PM
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I don't see a reason for the carb' springs to ice up... In a very cold winter you still get good amount of heat between the cylinders and carb's area to melt an iceberg. unless off course if you riding in Antarctica or Siberia at -70c, then you may have a whole other range of issues like fuel freezing and other

I support E.Marquez on that, return cables causing more problems then help in anyway, seen that countless times.

If you ever experience an open throttle stuck, well, just use kill switch and clutch as needed.


On another note and as a good practical quick response, get yourself use to ride with one finger on the front brake and one finger on the clutch at all times, trust me when I say, this will increase your response time significantly. I guess that comment should have been on another thread for skills.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:20 AM
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Wow...what did I start with asking about the stiffer spring haha.

How? By replacing it. Thought that would be obvious Ace Hardware has all kinds of springs available, however, I like 7's idea of just winding it up a turn or two. Now, the why? Just for added assurance that the throttle will close when you let go. That was all I was thinking about the matter. Of course you have the kill switch within thumbs reach, so no big deal.

However, the more you think about it, the spring that is on there had to pull and push two cables when you let off the throttle, and with one cable removed that duty is well, cut in half. So, the stock spring is just fine.

I was to quick to post a question without even thinking it through.

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 09-11-2013 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:27 AM
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Thanks for correcting me wyldryce. I was actually laying in bed last night thinking i had posted the wrong information, but i figured someone would correct me by morning

I personally wouldn't stress the return spring anymore by wrapping it another turn. Just let it do what it's supposed to do, and like you said, it now has less force to return with one less cable

James
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
You would have to do some dismantling of the carb action to even install it.
Yeah but nothing you can't return to stock if you don't want to. I've done it unintentionally and figured out how to put the spring back on without even examining it prior.

If it was a high priority mod I know where to get a custom spring made, but we're talking this thing would seriously have to be a benefit to chase that one down.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NHSH View Post
I don't see a reason for the carb' springs to ice up... In a very cold winter you still get good amount of heat between the cylinders and carb's area to melt an iceberg. unless off course if you riding in Antarctica or Siberia at -70c, then you may have a whole other range of issues like fuel freezing and other

I support E.Marquez on that, return cables causing more problems then help in anyway, seen that countless times.

If you ever experience an open throttle stuck, well, just use kill switch and clutch as needed.


On another note and as a good practical quick response, get yourself use to ride with one finger on the front brake and one finger on the clutch at all times, trust me when I say, this will increase your response time significantly. I guess that comment should have been on another thread for skills.
The icing happens, in my case at about 28 degrees F and 35mph. The icing was on the throttle plate shafts aka "butterflies". A small amount of moisture froze under the wind chill effects. The solution was to fire up a space heater in the garage to "kill" the moisture at night. Problem solved.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thetophatflash View Post
The icing happens, in my case at about 28 degrees F and 35mph. The icing was on the throttle plate shafts aka "butterflies". A small amount of moisture froze under the wind chill effects. The solution was to fire up a space heater in the garage to "kill" the moisture at night. Problem solved.
I'm assuming you didn't start the bike due to this icing, cause if you did and let it run for few minutes, it should have been warm up enough to melt the icing.
I never seen that happen, but what do I know... never lived in Seattle, all I know about it is Nirvana and lots of rain
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NHSH View Post
I'm assuming you didn't start the bike due to this icing, cause if you did and let it run for few minutes, it should have been warm up enough to melt the icing.
I never seen that happen, but what do I know... never lived in Seattle, all I know about it is Nirvana and lots of rain
It happened after an overnight in an unheated garage when I pulled out for my commute and fired her up. every thing seemed normal until I got rolling at about 35mph. And no it didn't evaporate immediately. I had been in heavy rain the day before and there must have been a residual amount of water. The wind chill was very effective!
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:10 PM
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I had the freezing after a downpour ride then the temp dropped like 35* and EVERYTHING froze solid. Choke, throttle, ignition, everything. HAD to get to work and the hairdryer did nothing. Only warm water melted everything. Then the ride dried it off.

Hey phat, did you have the throttle actually stick open while riding? Seems super unlikely. Even if you did, you had no problem safety wise right? Even my fully frozen bike didnt do those things.

So I dont think removing the cable is any risk. The planets have to line up for that.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thetophatflash View Post
It happened after an overnight in an unheated garage when I pulled out for my commute and fired her up. every thing seemed normal until I got rolling at about 35mph. And no it didn't evaporate immediately. I had been in heavy rain the day before and there must have been a residual amount of water. The wind chill was very effective!
You said that happen on a 1968 CB 350, I can totally see that, the CB 350 carb' components are very exposed to the elements and weather and the carb's are not situated between two large cylinder heads, as such on the SH it is still very unlikely to ever happen which is what I meant to say on my first post on this thread, all though again, maybe under similar unique extreme conditions it is possible, in any case, on most sport bikes the return cables are more of a cause for annoyance then benefit.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:11 AM
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Though..... return cables do make great emergency replacements when ones opening cable breaks at @ 2am on the 5fwy right outside of Six Flags Magic Mountain....... Hasn't happened on the Hawk, hopefully never, (knock on wood), but back in the late 80's, on my old Kawi Z1, as I was coming back from watching the races at the San Jose mile. Also cooked the battery on that ride. The Kaws orig R/R didn't do so well when running at sustained high rpm...
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:54 AM
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Aqua, that is a good point, although I dont know how easy that would be on the hawk, I plan to simply zip tie a backup cable next to the pull cable. Just so its there.
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