shifting on the SH
09-29-2005, 09:31 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 22
shifting on the SH
Hi, I wanted to see if this is normal for the Hawk, When shifting into second gear it clunks going in. It goes in just fine, the bike has only 1900 miles on it and I bought it new. I have been easy on the bike. Any info would be great thanks. Also when do you guys think would be a good time to go to full synthetic oil?
Thanks, Tiim
Thanks, Tiim
09-30-2005, 12:27 AM
#2
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 809
Re: shifting on the SH
shifting into second seems to be point of concern here. they all seem to go into second kinda hard. mine too, but I've found that you have to sort of time your shift for a certain rmp. it will shift effortlessly if you can find it. I've owned the bike for a year now, and I'm finally consistant with it. anyway, try shifting at different rpm's see if it makes a difference. can't help ya with the oil thing. I've got partial synthetic. if full synth. is definitely better, I too would appreciate someone telling me.
10-01-2005, 05:46 AM
#7
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 409
try moving the shifter lever by one tooth where it connects to the splined shaft that goes into the motor.
It will make a world of difference in the feel of the shift. It shortens the throw so its almost like you have the shift lever pre loaded before shifting.
It will make a world of difference in the feel of the shift. It shortens the throw so its almost like you have the shift lever pre loaded before shifting.
12-02-2005, 10:01 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 547
Re: shifting on the SH
Actually,
Honda recommends that you DO NOT use a fully synthetic engine oil. It has to do with the clutch using the same oil, and requiring a bit more "grab" than you get with fully synthetic oils. They recommend semi-synthetic, which is roughly the same price, and I'd rather not find out the hard way about the clutch. I use Castrol Syntec Semi-Syn, and it works great, plus it lasts like 7500 miles.
Honda recommends that you DO NOT use a fully synthetic engine oil. It has to do with the clutch using the same oil, and requiring a bit more "grab" than you get with fully synthetic oils. They recommend semi-synthetic, which is roughly the same price, and I'd rather not find out the hard way about the clutch. I use Castrol Syntec Semi-Syn, and it works great, plus it lasts like 7500 miles.
12-02-2005, 12:25 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
What is your source for that tidbit?
Keeping in mind,, there are many reasons for an OEM to put something in print... And often it has nothing to do with what is best for the bike or user.
12-02-2005, 04:14 PM
#11
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: mtn. home, AR
Posts: 253
Re: shifting on the SH
Actually,
Honda recommends that you DO NOT use a fully synthetic engine oil. It has to do with the clutch using the same oil, and requiring a bit more "grab" than you get with fully synthetic oils. They recommend semi-synthetic, which is roughly the same price, and I'd rather not find out the hard way about the clutch. I use Castrol Syntec Semi-Syn, and it works great, plus it lasts like 7500 miles.
Honda recommends that you DO NOT use a fully synthetic engine oil. It has to do with the clutch using the same oil, and requiring a bit more "grab" than you get with fully synthetic oils. They recommend semi-synthetic, which is roughly the same price, and I'd rather not find out the hard way about the clutch. I use Castrol Syntec Semi-Syn, and it works great, plus it lasts like 7500 miles.
12-02-2005, 08:59 PM
#12
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
As far as the shifting as everyone else said it's normal. But if you have the money and short leg length,(people under 6'2" or don't mind scrunching), rear sets give the bike a whole new feel and improve shifting. They have more leverage with the longer rod.
With the oil, it shouldn't matter if it's synthetic or not. What really matters is the amount of detergent in the oil. Too much detergent will make a wet clutch slip.
With the oil, it shouldn't matter if it's synthetic or not. What really matters is the amount of detergent in the oil. Too much detergent will make a wet clutch slip.
12-03-2005, 07:18 AM
#14
Hmm?
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 2,069
There is also Coerce. Not quite as pretty as the Gilles or Harris. They can be found on eBay under "chapter711" for sale items, or you can look at their website at www.pac-max.com. I haven't tried their rearsets, but the seller (chapter711) is a great guy.
01-01-2006, 03:46 AM
#15
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Re: shifting on the SH
This is an old thread I know, but being a new member I have just found it, and I thought I would add in what I have found.
Factory Pro makes a gearbox shifting component that is called a Evo 7 Shift Star (I think this is what they call it) It is connected to the other end of the splined shifting shaft that runs across the motor to behind the clutch, and operates the shift drum. The standard part looks just like a pizza cutter and is a low quality component that is connected by a pin. The Factory Pro part is run on a bearing and is easily 200% better in its design. The standart part is quite poor in its design. I am yet to install it as my engine is not yet assembled but it looks very good. Should make a vast imrovement in the mechanism.
Another mod I have done is to replace the ball and cup joints on the shifter connecting/adjuster rod. These joints have a lot of play in them. I have replaced them with joints of the type used on a Yamaha R1 which are available from bearing suppliers here in Oz with left and right hand threads. The tolerances are much better and take all the play out of the rod. I also had a new brass bush installed in the shifter mount with less tolerance than the standard bush. A great improvement all round in my opinion. This is worth doing if you want to retain the standard peg assembles instead of getting rearsets.
Cheers,
Shayne
Factory Pro makes a gearbox shifting component that is called a Evo 7 Shift Star (I think this is what they call it) It is connected to the other end of the splined shifting shaft that runs across the motor to behind the clutch, and operates the shift drum. The standard part looks just like a pizza cutter and is a low quality component that is connected by a pin. The Factory Pro part is run on a bearing and is easily 200% better in its design. The standart part is quite poor in its design. I am yet to install it as my engine is not yet assembled but it looks very good. Should make a vast imrovement in the mechanism.
Another mod I have done is to replace the ball and cup joints on the shifter connecting/adjuster rod. These joints have a lot of play in them. I have replaced them with joints of the type used on a Yamaha R1 which are available from bearing suppliers here in Oz with left and right hand threads. The tolerances are much better and take all the play out of the rod. I also had a new brass bush installed in the shifter mount with less tolerance than the standard bush. A great improvement all round in my opinion. This is worth doing if you want to retain the standard peg assembles instead of getting rearsets.
Cheers,
Shayne
01-01-2006, 03:45 PM
#17
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Re: shifting on the SH
G'day Woodman.
I have looked up my Yamaha invoices for you, and unfortunately no part numbers are listed. I would only buy Yamaha bits if I had to if I was you, as they were about $125 AUD as opposed to $35 AUD from my local bearing service. The Yamaha part is also right hand thread and we need a RH & LH thread to keep the linkage adjustable. The bearing shop sold both. Unfortunately I only found this out after I had bought the Yamaha ones and then cut off a RH thread and welded on a LH one. A bit of stuffing about and a lot dearer.
These joints are not a ball and cup arrangement like the standard Superhawk ones. The are a rotating ball with a bolt through the centre. The same design as you see on tractor hydraulic linkages. The CBR 600 & 100 have them as well, however Honda don't sell them separate to the shifter assembly.
If you go to your Honda dealer and go and wiggle a Hawk shifter and then go an wiggle a Blade shifter the difference is huge. No play in the Blade linkages.
As for a supplier, here in Australia, wherever you buy bearings and oil seals is where to get them. Hopefully bearing shops in your area should be able to help you out.
Cheers,
Shayne
I have looked up my Yamaha invoices for you, and unfortunately no part numbers are listed. I would only buy Yamaha bits if I had to if I was you, as they were about $125 AUD as opposed to $35 AUD from my local bearing service. The Yamaha part is also right hand thread and we need a RH & LH thread to keep the linkage adjustable. The bearing shop sold both. Unfortunately I only found this out after I had bought the Yamaha ones and then cut off a RH thread and welded on a LH one. A bit of stuffing about and a lot dearer.
These joints are not a ball and cup arrangement like the standard Superhawk ones. The are a rotating ball with a bolt through the centre. The same design as you see on tractor hydraulic linkages. The CBR 600 & 100 have them as well, however Honda don't sell them separate to the shifter assembly.
If you go to your Honda dealer and go and wiggle a Hawk shifter and then go an wiggle a Blade shifter the difference is huge. No play in the Blade linkages.
As for a supplier, here in Australia, wherever you buy bearings and oil seals is where to get them. Hopefully bearing shops in your area should be able to help you out.
Cheers,
Shayne
01-01-2006, 06:07 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: shifting on the SH
G'day Woodman.
I have looked up my Yamaha invoices for you, and unfortunately no part numbers are listed. I would only buy Yamaha bits if I had to if I was you, as they were about $125 AUD as opposed to $35 AUD from my local bearing service. The Yamaha part is also right hand thread and we need a RH & LH thread to keep the linkage adjustable. The bearing shop sold both. Unfortunately I only found this out after I had bought the Yamaha ones and then cut off a RH thread and welded on a LH one. A bit of stuffing about and a lot dearer.
These joints are not a ball and cup arrangement like the standard Superhawk ones. The are a rotating ball with a bolt through the centre. The same design as you see on tractor hydraulic linkages. The CBR 600 & 100 have them as well, however Honda don't sell them separate to the shifter assembly.
If you go to your Honda dealer and go and wiggle a Hawk shifter and then go an wiggle a Blade shifter the difference is huge. No play in the Blade linkages.
As for a supplier, here in Australia, wherever you buy bearings and oil seals is where to get them. Hopefully bearing shops in your area should be able to help you out.
Cheers,
Shayne
I have looked up my Yamaha invoices for you, and unfortunately no part numbers are listed. I would only buy Yamaha bits if I had to if I was you, as they were about $125 AUD as opposed to $35 AUD from my local bearing service. The Yamaha part is also right hand thread and we need a RH & LH thread to keep the linkage adjustable. The bearing shop sold both. Unfortunately I only found this out after I had bought the Yamaha ones and then cut off a RH thread and welded on a LH one. A bit of stuffing about and a lot dearer.
These joints are not a ball and cup arrangement like the standard Superhawk ones. The are a rotating ball with a bolt through the centre. The same design as you see on tractor hydraulic linkages. The CBR 600 & 100 have them as well, however Honda don't sell them separate to the shifter assembly.
If you go to your Honda dealer and go and wiggle a Hawk shifter and then go an wiggle a Blade shifter the difference is huge. No play in the Blade linkages.
As for a supplier, here in Australia, wherever you buy bearings and oil seals is where to get them. Hopefully bearing shops in your area should be able to help you out.
Cheers,
Shayne
FK, Durabal, Aurora, Alinabal, National ,, all make and supply rod ends of different designs, qualitys, and materials .. I'll look at my supply catalogs and come up with a few choices.. then we can call our local bearings shops and get one or the other. Or,, I have some great internet suppliers I have been using for years.
01-01-2006, 06:32 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: shifting on the SH
OK,, so the shifter uses a male 6x1.0 rod end.
Of course, these are of a OEM, specific design, so the fastener that holds the rod end to the shifter is built in. We would need to use a shouldered 6mm fastener, say in SS.
This is a cake walk..... 8)
Manufacture is Aurora Bearing
Part number is MM-M6T for the right hand thread one
and
Part number MB-M6T for the left hand one..
You'll need one of each.
The rod end is 9mm in width,,, so we would need a 6mmx1.0 fastener 9mm, plus the thickness of the shifter parts, plus the thickness of a washer, plus the thickness of the nut use to fasten it. I'll know exact specs as soon as I cut mine apart... which brings us to the next part.
You will have to cut/grind the old rod end off the shifter parts. You may have to increase the size of the hole for the 6mm fastener to be used...
\
This is all simple stuff :P
I'll order the rod ends in the morning, and as soon as I get them do the mod.. Should be no more then a few day.. 10-15 at the most.
Thinks I'll get the Factory Pro shifter kit also, as I can get that from my sponsor at a ummmm, reduced rate
Of course, these are of a OEM, specific design, so the fastener that holds the rod end to the shifter is built in. We would need to use a shouldered 6mm fastener, say in SS.
This is a cake walk..... 8)
Manufacture is Aurora Bearing
Part number is MM-M6T for the right hand thread one
and
Part number MB-M6T for the left hand one..
You'll need one of each.
The rod end is 9mm in width,,, so we would need a 6mmx1.0 fastener 9mm, plus the thickness of the shifter parts, plus the thickness of a washer, plus the thickness of the nut use to fasten it. I'll know exact specs as soon as I cut mine apart... which brings us to the next part.
You will have to cut/grind the old rod end off the shifter parts. You may have to increase the size of the hole for the 6mm fastener to be used...
\
This is all simple stuff :P
I'll order the rod ends in the morning, and as soon as I get them do the mod.. Should be no more then a few day.. 10-15 at the most.
Thinks I'll get the Factory Pro shifter kit also, as I can get that from my sponsor at a ummmm, reduced rate
01-01-2006, 09:10 PM
#20
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Re: shifting on the SH
Thanks for that bronco78, I was going to guess at them being called a heim joint, but didn't want to tell people the wrong thing and send them off track. 
You are correct, it is a simple job, and gives good improvement, as does re-bushing the actual shifter on the fotpeg mount. Added together the result is very good. The only other thing I would add would be to look for some rubber boots to keep them covered and the dirt out. The Yamaha boot is a separate part and only a few bucks for a couple if they cannot be found elsewhere.
You are correct, it is a simple job, and gives good improvement, as does re-bushing the actual shifter on the fotpeg mount. Added together the result is very good. The only other thing I would add would be to look for some rubber boots to keep them covered and the dirt out. The Yamaha boot is a separate part and only a few bucks for a couple if they cannot be found elsewhere.
01-01-2006, 09:22 PM
#21
Moderator
MotoGP
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,553
Re: shifting on the SH
Please post a pictorial how-to when you get things sorted, puh-leeze. After having to readjust my linkage when I lowered my footpegs, I noticed a small but noteable improvement in shifting. This should work wonders.
01-01-2006, 10:41 PM
#22
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Re: shifting on the SH
Yeah it does. I am used to dirt bikes that run the shifter straight on to the spline, and therefore have nothing to get any play in. So I went looking to improve the VTR.
Glad I could help you boys out.
Cheers,
Shayne
Glad I could help you boys out.
Cheers,
Shayne
01-04-2006, 08:22 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: shifting on the SH
This is an old thread I know, but being a new member I have just found it, and I thought I would add in what I have found.
Factory Pro makes a gearbox shifting component that is called a Evo 7 Shift Star (I think this is what they call it) It is connected to the other end of the splined shifting shaft that runs across the motor to behind the clutch, and operates the shift drum. The standard part looks just like a pizza cutter and is a low quality component that is connected by a pin. The Factory Pro part is run on a bearing and is easily 200% better in its design. The standart part is quite poor in its design. I am yet to install it as my engine is not yet assembled but it looks very good. Should make a vast imrovement in the mechanism.
Another mod I have done is to replace the ball and cup joints on the shifter connecting/adjuster rod. These joints have a lot of play in them. I have replaced them with joints of the type used on a Yamaha R1 which are available from bearing suppliers here in Oz with left and right hand threads. The tolerances are much better and take all the play out of the rod. I also had a new brass bush installed in the shifter mount with less tolerance than the standard bush. A great improvement all round in my opinion. This is worth doing if you want to retain the standard peg assembles instead of getting rearsets.
Cheers,
Shayne
Factory Pro makes a gearbox shifting component that is called a Evo 7 Shift Star (I think this is what they call it) It is connected to the other end of the splined shifting shaft that runs across the motor to behind the clutch, and operates the shift drum. The standard part looks just like a pizza cutter and is a low quality component that is connected by a pin. The Factory Pro part is run on a bearing and is easily 200% better in its design. The standart part is quite poor in its design. I am yet to install it as my engine is not yet assembled but it looks very good. Should make a vast imrovement in the mechanism.
Another mod I have done is to replace the ball and cup joints on the shifter connecting/adjuster rod. These joints have a lot of play in them. I have replaced them with joints of the type used on a Yamaha R1 which are available from bearing suppliers here in Oz with left and right hand threads. The tolerances are much better and take all the play out of the rod. I also had a new brass bush installed in the shifter mount with less tolerance than the standard bush. A great improvement all round in my opinion. This is worth doing if you want to retain the standard peg assembles instead of getting rearsets.
Cheers,
Shayne
This is the Factory Pro EVO-7 Shift STAR Kit!!
Part number SHFT-EVO-H51
Installation:
Remove right side clutch cover.
Remove clutch assembly (impact wrench and large socket set required)
Install new EVO Shift STAR, Microbearing Detent and and Factory Pro Detent Spring>
Reinstall clutch and cover.
No case splitting required
Estimated install time:
1 hour, if you are super quick and have all the tools laid out.
1.5 - 2.5 hours at normal human speeds and what we would charge for in our shop.
3-4 hours if you are a "working hobbyist" and have impact and sockets.
6-8 hours to a week if you are a journalist and not on a deadline.
And 1-2 months if you let me do it.
Retail is $199... I'm looking for a better deal now.
01-04-2006, 08:33 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have not used it yet..I was set to buy the shifter detent and spring,, as that is what is in the catalogs I was sourcing from.. Then I looked a bit deeper at the FP web site and found the whole kit, with the Evo star thingy... So now I have my parts folks getting me cost and availability. On the full kit
01-09-2006, 01:42 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: shifting on the SH
OK,, so the shifter uses a male 6x1.0 rod end.
Of course, these are of a OEM, specific design, so the fastener that holds the rod end to the shifter is built in. We would need to use a shouldered 6mm fastener, say in SS.
This is a cake walk..... 8)
Manufacture is Aurora Bearing
Part number is MM-M6T for the right hand thread one
and
Part number MB-M6T for the left hand one..
You'll need one of each.
The rod end is 9mm in width,,, so we would need a 6mmx1.0 fastener 9mm, plus the thickness of the shifter parts, plus the thickness of a washer, plus the thickness of the nut use to fasten it. I'll know exact specs as soon as I cut mine apart... which brings us to the next part.
You will have to cut/grind the old rod end off the shifter parts. You may have to increase the size of the hole for the 6mm fastener to be used...
\
This is all simple stuff :P
I'll order the rod ends in the morning, and as soon as I get them do the mod.. Should be no more then a few day.. 10-15 at the most.
Thinks I'll get the Factory Pro shifter kit also, as I can get that from my sponsor at a ummmm, reduced rate
Of course, these are of a OEM, specific design, so the fastener that holds the rod end to the shifter is built in. We would need to use a shouldered 6mm fastener, say in SS.
This is a cake walk..... 8)
Manufacture is Aurora Bearing
Part number is MM-M6T for the right hand thread one
and
Part number MB-M6T for the left hand one..
You'll need one of each.
The rod end is 9mm in width,,, so we would need a 6mmx1.0 fastener 9mm, plus the thickness of the shifter parts, plus the thickness of a washer, plus the thickness of the nut use to fasten it. I'll know exact specs as soon as I cut mine apart... which brings us to the next part.
You will have to cut/grind the old rod end off the shifter parts. You may have to increase the size of the hole for the 6mm fastener to be used...
\
This is all simple stuff :P
I'll order the rod ends in the morning, and as soon as I get them do the mod.. Should be no more then a few day.. 10-15 at the most.
Thinks I'll get the Factory Pro shifter kit also, as I can get that from my sponsor at a ummmm, reduced rate
But, what the heck.. I like building and playing with stuff :P 1st issue.... I bought the Teflon lined 3 piece rod end.. Used them in many application, boat to car, to bike.. BUT.. I forgot how tight the ball is, in the race due to the Teflon lining. As the shifter has to be able to return to it's neutral resting position under spring pressure.. These may not work. I'll look at it deeper tonight.. But may need to get some standard 3 piece rod ends
Still looking for some aluminum bodied RE to use in this application.. That static and radial load placed on these is minimal,,, and I really do not need or want (due to size and weight) the capacity of a 3 piece HQ rod end like what I have now.
02-28-2007, 05:42 PM
#29
Seņor Miembro, Ay Caramba
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: a little north of DC
Posts: 562
Heh.. I feel like I'm pulling-an-everybody... I'm trying to visualize the process without actually taking everything apart. It seems like all I (or any- and everyone) should need would be the LH and RH rod ends, and then the R1 rubber covers, right? It seems like a really inexpensive mod that is totally beneficial/worthwhile, and the only cost is not being able to return to the stock/inferior setup. Am I right?
I actually am in no big hurry to do this mod, as there is actually very little play in my shifter. I just tested it against the 4 dirt bikes sitting in the garage, and it sure ain't bad. (Only got 3500 miles on it). But as the joints further break in, I'll be thinking more and more about it, and just thought I'd ask for clarification for me and anyone else who might be thinking about doing it.
I actually am in no big hurry to do this mod, as there is actually very little play in my shifter. I just tested it against the 4 dirt bikes sitting in the garage, and it sure ain't bad. (Only got 3500 miles on it). But as the joints further break in, I'll be thinking more and more about it, and just thought I'd ask for clarification for me and anyone else who might be thinking about doing it.
03-01-2007, 12:24 AM
#30
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Yes, I agree. Easy cheap, and a great mod in my opinion. You wouldn't want to go back. If they ever wore out they are cheaper than the Honda parts anyway.
Maybe I am pickier than you, but I thought the standard shifter set-up is quite poor. I went and looked at a new bike, and it was not very good, let alone a worn that has done a few miles. Just my opinion of course, but I think there is a big difference to be felt.
Maybe I am pickier than you, but I thought the standard shifter set-up is quite poor. I went and looked at a new bike, and it was not very good, let alone a worn that has done a few miles. Just my opinion of course, but I think there is a big difference to be felt.
