Removing the Sub Gear (a.k.a. Anti Rattle Gear)
 

Since I have some time before my engine cover gets installed again, I was thinking about removing the Sub Gear, a.k.a. anti rattle gear. I know others have removed it. I had asked Kenmoore how he removed his in a PM, but having this information out in the open would be great. I hope he chimes in.

In case you are wondering what the heck I'm talking about, here's a picture for ya from the FSM (Factory Service Manual).

Attachment 22453

Here's what the Sub Gear does:
(this is a quote taken from Tony.mon on the vtr1000.org site. I hope you don't mind!)
This is my engine in the picture below. It looks like all you have to do is:

-Remove Primary Drive Gear bolt & washer
-Remove Ignition Pulse Generator Rotor
-Remove Sub Gear (a.k.a. Anti Rattle Gear), Sub Gear Friction Spring and also the three Damper Springs

Once that is all off:
-Reinstall Ignition Pulse Generator Rotor
-Reinstall Primary Drive Gear Bolt & washer and torque to 65 ft.lbs.

Do I need to wedge anything between the primary drive and driven gears, like the FSM says too? Or, since the Sub Gear is being removed, you don't need to do this, correct?

Attachment 22454

Presume you nee to put a spacer in to get the advancer back to correct position?

I did this about 15 years ago to mine. Just remove all of the parts you don't want and leave only the primary gear. Pretty much as simple as that.

Good luck!

Going off what you said, I removed the primary gear drive bolt and everything just fell out...and into my oil pan haha. Two of the three springs rolled right in there. Was changing the oil at the time, so there wasn't any oil in the pan, but it still took 30 minutes to get the last dang spring out of there.

Put the bolt back in and torqued it down to 65 ft.lbs.
Finished :cool:
That's it folks. Simple as that!

While I was in there, I installed the Factory Pro +4 Ignition Advancer.

Attachment 22451

This is something I've been wanting todo so thank you for tbe write up

Can anyone testify to a power gain ? I understand the rolling mass theory and the fact it may reduce weight and friction, but, is it realy worth it ?


Crux, if you have an accurate balance, perhaps you can weigh the parts removed and see where you stand with this mod...:O)

My call is that it would be something you do if you have the cover off for something else. It wont be any huge gain but if your in there why not?

This is exactly why I did it. I was in there already, so why not? Otherwise, it's not worth the cost of a new engine cover gasket and engine coolant (unless you reuse it).

Is there a gain to be had? Sure, although very minimal. Less parts and less rotating mass are a plus in my book any day.

I don't have a scale that can weigh things as small as the Sub Gear and parts. But I have been wanting to get one for some time now. This might be the reason I need :)

I finally got around to weighing the parts that were removed.

Sub Gear, friction spring, and the three damper springs =5.89 oz. (Sorry about the previous weight. I screwed up. This is now the correct weight!)

EDIT: In ~450 miles, I honestly can't hear a difference. I feel a slight difference, but I'm chalking that up to installing the Factory Pro +4 Ignition Advancer, which was done at the same time as removing the Sub Gear.

Well, approximately 2 lbs, 4 oz is the roger ditchfield flywheel lightening recommendation... So i suppose this 6 oz would help out :)

James

Hey guys,

Been occupied and sorry to chime in late!

When I removed the anti rattle gear I also fitted a lightened fly wheel along with other mods.

One thing I noticed was that the engine became noisier at idle.

I am now wondering if NZ has solved the conundrum of the rattle after fitting the 4degree advancer and removing the anti rattle gear.

Me thinks I might measure the thickness of the anti rattle gear and the original ignition rotor, then the 4 degree rotor and source a washer that returns the 4 degree rotor to the original position.

Who knows? May work!

I have a similar setup as you. Lightened flywheel, removed Sub Gear, +4 degree ignition advancer. I honestly can't hear a difference. But, others like yourself, have claimed that thier engine makes a different noise during idle after installing the ignition advancer. Maybe this isn't true for all VTR's?

I understand what you are saying about spacing the rotor back out to where it was. I can't think of any reason why that would work. BUT, you never know ;)

You guys and your mods..... tee hee hee...... stock baby!!!!!!!! :)

Mikstr,

I would call your bike anything but stock mate!

I did so much to mine all at once that it's hard to know why it rattles more than before.

By the crickey it sure goes better.

It's probably not a good idea to remove a device Honda specifically engineered to reduce crankshaft vibration. Especially on a v-twin when the desired effect is to simply lighten the crank. That should be done by lightening the flywheel.

Probably best to accept that you can't make an RC-51 out of a VTR.

This really seems like bordom derived mod. It just seems like an odd thing to even want to do. Terrible benefit to drawback ratio it seems.

It sounds like it would affect longevity, although if Jamie did it so long ago thats iffy. But to remove something engineered into the motor just to gain vibration and rattle just doesnt figure to me.

You guys should at least warn the buyer if you sell the bike.

This mod is definitely a because I can type thing.

I first got onto it via tonymon on another site.

Like many I did it because I was in there and could.

The other day I had the opportunity to ride a fairly standard bike that was the same year model with a set of Yoshis on it and nothing else.

What a revelation, doughy is the only way that I could describe it.

Definitely highlighted how the mods that I have done work.

I doubt if I would feel any difference if I put the anti rattle gears back in but I did notice that my bike has a vibration at approx 4250 revs compared to the standard bike.

That is and area that I accelerate quickly through so not a drama to me.

I'm almost certain that it is caused by the removal of the anti rattle gear as I have replaced chain, sprockets Cush rubbers etc chasing this vibration and the standard bike did not have it.

I put the vibration down to the mods I have and think of it as character.

Compared to some of my earlier bikes I can live with it for the definite power advantage I have over the stock bike.

We did a side by side roll on in 3rd gear and it was a funny feeling to be flogged by my own bike.

It made me feel good to experience first hand how my bike used to be and served to validate all the time and effort that I have put into it.

Could I live with a standard bike, I could as it was smoother, but it lacked character and was almost asthmatic in it's performance and a bit scarey in the handling department.

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

The older I get the more I prefer character... Assuming it's alright in the looks department.

James

Ha, Ha James,

When I was younger character was a word I used to describe a few of my female friends.

Looks didn't seem to be a priority then!

Funny how things change, although character in bikes like people help to overcome some obvious shortcomings!

I realize what a lot of people may have been thinking... But i was talking about bikes :)

That's why i sold my really nice cbr900rr.

James

I recently had my clutch apart and did not utilize the anti rattle gear.
The extra noise was tooth grinding ly bad.
I reset and reused it.
Quiet.

I removed mine back in 2000 and it sounds the same and not had a single problem since. My guess is there was something else that caused the noise.

In my case, it was the springs rattling as well as the clutch. This stopped once they were back under tension.
I suppose if the whole aparatus was missing it would just be the clutch that rattles.