Pulse generator?
07-16-2008, 06:33 PM
#1
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Pulse generator?
So I have been chasing an ignition problem for a long time here and thought I would ask you guys what you thought. My bike is not advancing the timing. At least that is what I can tell. When you pull the throttle a 1/4 turn or more the motor missfires and just chugs and will not acelerate but when you pull the throttle gently it will eventually smoothly rev its entire range. I checked and or replaced everything igntion related sofar except the pulse generator. Will this part cause this problem? And has anyone ever had one of these fail and was the problem the same? It tested at 680 ohms and spec is 600-620. Thanks
07-16-2008, 07:11 PM
#2
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It's the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) the one that takes reading at the throttle shaft ??
Most likely the wiring, unplug the connector rev the engine at over 3500 RPM and plug the connector, the engine speed should increase.
A defective pulse generator will stall the engine, there will be no tach or would be erratic and misfire like hell.
Most likely the wiring, unplug the connector rev the engine at over 3500 RPM and plug the connector, the engine speed should increase.
A defective pulse generator will stall the engine, there will be no tach or would be erratic and misfire like hell.
07-17-2008, 07:19 AM
#3
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I replaced the tps sensor and it checks out. Except when you do the plug test you described it does nothing. I also have tried a different computer and convertor box to no avail. I tested the wiring between the computer on the cdi and it checks out. When you pull the throttle the tps adjusts up in the ohms. I am stuck I can't figure this problem out. My local dealer couldn't either and they had it for 2 months.
07-17-2008, 10:15 AM
#4
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you sure it is ignition and not just a rejet needed?
edit: Or perhaps a sticking slide or a leaking diaphram in the carb or petcock..
All could cause the issues revving up. I mean if you have replaced the whole electrical system, what else could it be?
edit: Or perhaps a sticking slide or a leaking diaphram in the carb or petcock..
All could cause the issues revving up. I mean if you have replaced the whole electrical system, what else could it be?
Last edited by lazn; 07-17-2008 at 10:19 AM.
07-17-2008, 06:54 PM
#7
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Thanks for all the input Im looking into all that again however I have run into this if you ride with the throttle position sensor unplugged it behaves the same as when plugged in (I forgot to hook it back up and did a test run) also the shop I took it totally fubared it. They had a 190 and a 195 jet in the carbs with the needles set as rich as they could be and I have a stock set up. I am putting it back togethor the way it was. The carbs are in great shape no sticking slides or anything. So heres the new question on the wiring diagram there is a component listed as "ECT" it has a green wire with a black strip that it shares in common with the TPS I would like to check the wire and component to make sure this isn't my problem as well but since I don't what it is I can't test it any help would be greatly appreciated.
Heres the diagram https://www.superhawkforum.com/galle...o/298/size/big
Heres the diagram https://www.superhawkforum.com/galle...o/298/size/big
07-17-2008, 07:14 PM
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Its wierd it shares the same wire. So they are related somehow. The dealer I took it to couldn't fiure out what was wrong with it either would this part freaking out cause the tps to go bunk? because everything tests out. I haven't checked that ect sensor yet. Thanks for the quick reply.
I just tested the ect and its way way out of spec like 1000+ ohms and at 80 C its only supposed to read 200 to 400 ohms. My book says its related to ignition so I will replace this part and see what happens.
I just tested the ect and its way way out of spec like 1000+ ohms and at 80 C its only supposed to read 200 to 400 ohms. My book says its related to ignition so I will replace this part and see what happens.
Last edited by Little_Horse; 07-17-2008 at 07:25 PM.
07-18-2008, 04:10 AM
#10
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Most sensors works with a reference voltage from a regulated 5V source, the common wire is the V ref, the go trough the sensor resistance and back to the ICU that read the remaining volts. Think of sensors as variable resistors.
07-18-2008, 06:34 PM
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Couple of questions. First how do you fix a sticking slide and how do you diagnos that. Also if it was jetting what would be the first thing you would try to fix this problem?
All the parts seem to be in spec and all the wires are intact. The dealer messed with the jetting before they found a bad coil. The bike runs way worse then when I brought it to them so I can't tell if it is still the original problem which would be ignition or if they have screwed up my jetting. I tried to put the carb settings back to what they were but since the installed a Dynojet kit it now has the third hole in the slide I couldn't really get it there. They had a 190 and a 195 main in it before it was stock. You would think that by changing that it would alter the problem some but even after I switched main jets back to stock it still behaves the same. Its difficult to tell of it better or worse because it so bad. It didnt make any noticable difference. I also did the more air less air trick with it and it runs better with less air but the choking problem at half throttle still exists. When you do more air it chokes everywhere. This is frustrating as hell when you can't find the problem, its probably staring me in the face. Before I took it to the dealer it only had just a sight burble at 3500- 4000 rpm, but you could still pin it and it would haul *** just fine. Now it just chokes at anything much past 1/4 throttle inputs and stays choking until 5000 rpm where it grabbs a little bit and then goes okay, not great but ok. Any help would be nice for the next step in messing with the carbs or if someone thinks I missed something ignition related. Thank you
All the parts seem to be in spec and all the wires are intact. The dealer messed with the jetting before they found a bad coil. The bike runs way worse then when I brought it to them so I can't tell if it is still the original problem which would be ignition or if they have screwed up my jetting. I tried to put the carb settings back to what they were but since the installed a Dynojet kit it now has the third hole in the slide I couldn't really get it there. They had a 190 and a 195 main in it before it was stock. You would think that by changing that it would alter the problem some but even after I switched main jets back to stock it still behaves the same. Its difficult to tell of it better or worse because it so bad. It didnt make any noticable difference. I also did the more air less air trick with it and it runs better with less air but the choking problem at half throttle still exists. When you do more air it chokes everywhere. This is frustrating as hell when you can't find the problem, its probably staring me in the face. Before I took it to the dealer it only had just a sight burble at 3500- 4000 rpm, but you could still pin it and it would haul *** just fine. Now it just chokes at anything much past 1/4 throttle inputs and stays choking until 5000 rpm where it grabbs a little bit and then goes okay, not great but ok. Any help would be nice for the next step in messing with the carbs or if someone thinks I missed something ignition related. Thank you
07-18-2008, 06:42 PM
#12
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It sounds even more like a carb problem to me now. I bet they screwed up the jetting when installing the Dynojet. Are you using the stock filter or a K&N?
We need a jetting expert in here asap.
We need a jetting expert in here asap.
07-18-2008, 07:31 PM
#13
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I run a 180/185 and needle to the 4th notch from the top, I have a DJ kit, stock filter and a D&D can.
Check your vacuum diaphragms they may be installed wrong, pinched or not operating properly.
Check your vacuum diaphragms they may be installed wrong, pinched or not operating properly.
07-19-2008, 07:28 AM
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I went through and checked all that stuff. Im not sure if the spring is right though and I still need to inspect the diaphrams with a magnafying glass. Springbubba is coming over to try and help me narrow the problem down a little bit, or find it... I would settle for that. I am also considering sealing the third hole and going back to stock needles and spring to see if that fixes it. Before I took it to the shop the jetting was great. When I had the little blip in my rpms they told me jetting, it didn't make sense because I hadn't changed anything and before my initial problem it ran fanastic. It defintly seems like a slide issue but why... does dynojt kits come with different (shorter than stock) springs?
Heres my set up,
Stock debaffled cans, BMC air filter, Stock main jets 175 178, Stock airbox, needles on the second notch from the bottom with a washer.
Heres my set up,
Stock debaffled cans, BMC air filter, Stock main jets 175 178, Stock airbox, needles on the second notch from the bottom with a washer.
Last edited by Little_Horse; 07-19-2008 at 07:34 AM.
07-19-2008, 08:36 AM
#16
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You wont believe this but they drilled the third hole through the jet holder as well as the main slide body heres a pic
Im pretty sure this is not right but since I don't have the instructions for the dynojet kit can someone tell me if this really is what you are supposed to do?
Im pretty sure this is not right but since I don't have the instructions for the dynojet kit can someone tell me if this really is what you are supposed to do?
07-19-2008, 09:22 AM
#17
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Yes it's a bleed hole, the DJ kits come with a jig and a drill bit, it change the rate at witch the slide opens.
My guess is that you are running lean as hell, I guess you get backfires trough the airbox.
bump up the mains and drop the clip to 4th position (from the top not from the tip) for starters, it should still be lean since you have an air filter
My guess is that you are running lean as hell, I guess you get backfires trough the airbox.
bump up the mains and drop the clip to 4th position (from the top not from the tip) for starters, it should still be lean since you have an air filter
Last edited by gboezio; 07-19-2008 at 09:27 AM.
07-19-2008, 01:05 PM
#18
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Well springbubba allowed me to switch carbs and even after hat it still did exactly the same thing so We definitly have rulled out carbs now. Any help with ignition?
07-19-2008, 02:08 PM
#19
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Wow you've done a lot there
If he's still there, it's quite esay to swap the ingition control to check it.
Otherwise a timing light could say a lot on the spark situation, ignition angle, misfires.
If he's still there, it's quite esay to swap the ingition control to check it.
Otherwise a timing light could say a lot on the spark situation, ignition angle, misfires.
07-19-2008, 05:30 PM
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yeah we spent 7 hrs almost swapping and testing, we did check both cdi units, ie the converter as well and his bike ran great with both. The problem with a timing light is that it really only does it under half to full load of its power, so potentially wouldn't it be hard to find? Sofar I replaced the tps also when we swapped carbs I used springbubba's tps and it made no difference, and like stated before I have checked to make sure all the wires have continuity and that they are not shorted out to the frame sofar nothing comes up as being at fault here. Do I just replace everything one thing at a time and hope I replace the part causing the problem? Is it more likely a broken wire or loose connection causing me a problem or more likely a component? Thanks for all your time and input I do appreciate it and it does help to check things twice.
07-19-2008, 07:37 PM
#21
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Well with the carbs out, You may have a weak spark and misfiring, do you feel like running on a single cylinder ?? It would be very unlikely that both cylinders would fail at once from a weak spark, maybe hook a voltmeter to the coils 12V to monitor if there is a major voltage drop as the rpm increase making the engine misfire under load.
Bad plugs, worn out or non OEM
So is the tach going crazy when it misfires ??
I would also check the cam timing just to rule it out.
These gremlins are hella hard to remote-diagnose
Well try some of these things and let us know if you get positive results
Good luck, your bike should obey to laws of physics so you will find it.
Bad plugs, worn out or non OEM
So is the tach going crazy when it misfires ??
I would also check the cam timing just to rule it out.
These gremlins are hella hard to remote-diagnose
Well try some of these things and let us know if you get positive results
Good luck, your bike should obey to laws of physics so you will find it.
Last edited by gboezio; 07-19-2008 at 07:42 PM.
07-20-2008, 11:17 AM
#22
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Well with the carbs out, You may have a weak spark and misfiring, do you feel like running on a single cylinder ?? It would be very unlikely that both cylinders would fail at once from a weak spark, maybe hook a voltmeter to the coils 12V to monitor if there is a major voltage drop as the rpm increase making the engine misfire under load.
Bad plugs, worn out or non OEM
So is the tach going crazy when it misfires ??
I would also check the cam timing just to rule it out.
These gremlins are hella hard to remote-diagnose
Well try some of these things and let us know if you get positive results
Good luck, your bike should obey to laws of physics so you will find it.
Bad plugs, worn out or non OEM
So is the tach going crazy when it misfires ??
I would also check the cam timing just to rule it out.
These gremlins are hella hard to remote-diagnose
Well try some of these things and let us know if you get positive results
Good luck, your bike should obey to laws of physics so you will find it.
07-20-2008, 08:21 PM
#23
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Since you say it's a dropped cylinder, I'll swap coils, plugs, check the wires and boots for damage the spark may jump out under load or the coil may die, the gap may be bad or the plug electrode damaged, boot not totally inserted wire damaged.
Forget the rest for now this is in first order to check.
No need to check input voltage for now, but I repalced my needles by aligator clips on my multimeter, soo convenient
Forget the rest for now this is in first order to check.
No need to check input voltage for now, but I repalced my needles by aligator clips on my multimeter, soo convenient
07-21-2008, 06:24 PM
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I think I found it now the front coil is reading out of spec on both primary and secondary windings but more so on secondary and alot when the cap is off. Supposed to be 17k ohms to 19 k ohms with cap its ten. Cap is supposed to be 5 k ohms it is coil without cap 5.71 k ohms. Is it kinda weird both coils would go out within a month of each other and in less the 1000 miles or is that standard. Basicly was the shop stupid for only replacing one instead of both of them at the same time?
Does anyone have a ignition coil used or not that is still good they can send me here in oregon that would make it here before the weekend?
Does anyone have a ignition coil used or not that is still good they can send me here in oregon that would make it here before the weekend?
07-21-2008, 08:17 PM
#26
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Did you had R/R problems, sometime the high voltage before it gives way can cook some parts.
Well I hope you got your finger on the right gremlin, keep us informed how it does.
Well I hope you got your finger on the right gremlin, keep us informed how it does.
07-21-2008, 09:05 PM
#27
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My r/r fried my battery last summer 19 volts at the battery, I was 200 miles from home not much choice but to ride and fry. Think this is some delayed aftermath?
07-22-2008, 05:55 AM
#28
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Yeah the high voltage probably overheated the coils and everything electrical, the secondary probably have melted and shorted, reducing spark voltage making the gap impossible to jump with wimpy voltage under load, getting worst over time even at normal voltage.
This would explain how both coils fried.
This would explain how both coils fried.
07-22-2008, 11:34 AM
#29
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Yeah the high voltage probably overheated the coils and everything electrical, the secondary probably have melted and shorted, reducing spark voltage making the gap impossible to jump with wimpy voltage under load, getting worst over time even at normal voltage.
This would explain how both coils fried.
This would explain how both coils fried.
and why it has progressively gotten worse. Thanks for your help.
