You cant argue with novices, Ive known this forever.

 

That would all depend on who you are calling a novice, and why... And what you know...

If what you know is that an improperly mounted chain on any type is likely to fail... Then yes I agree...

But since you argument is that a staked chain will fail based on:
a. Inferior material in the master link
b. No o-rings on the master link, because the person mounting them left them off..
c. That if they weren't left off they would "explode" the chain...

Well, then I think you need to re-examine your arguments... Because you are starting to contradict yourself...

a. Yes if the material is inferior it can fail... But as far as I know it is not... On a cheap chain it might be, but the same applies to any cheap chain, be it staked or clipped... Then the staked pin becomes just as strong as any other part of the chain, that is constructed in exactly the same way, only staked in a machine, not by hand...

b. Not mounting the o/x ring is by definition "misuse" ie the moron doing the mounting is causing the failure... This is directly equivalent to mounting the clip the wrong way, which using the exact same argument is a "dangerous design flaw" of a clip master link... In my view it's user error, not a design flaw...

c. If properly mounted the o/x rings exert the exact same pressure on the plates of the master link as on any other plate on any other link... Which is enough to compress the o/x ring enough to make a seal, not more... Certainly not close to enough to "explode" a 2 mm thick pin mushroomed out to 3-4 mm... That's not even material science... It's common sense... 1 mm rubber vs 1-2 mm high grade albeit soft steel... Oh, who ever will win...

Let me ask you this... If you do the same to a clip master link, ie leave the o/x ring off, will it fail then? Yes, it will, for the same reasons... If you put them in, will they then "explode" the clip link? No, they will not... And that master link is actually the exact same pin, mushroomed in the exact same way on one side, and on the other significantly weakened by cutting a groove for the clip...

Now at this point you have a few options... One, bow out gracefully... Don't reply, walk away... Two, think over the facts and your arguments and come up with a factual reply... Not opinion alone, but at the very least backed by facts... Three, state that it's you opinion, based on feeling, not fact... I can respect that, but I'll consider the argument over...

Or four, the bonehead move, continue contradicting yourself, calling other people novice in a rather condescending tone... I have absolutely no respect for that...

Oh and feel free to expound on how you are the master and we others are novices... I'm pretty sure it will be enlightening... Especially considering you up until now have been spouting random inconsistent opinions, based on little or no facts...

 

To the rest... Sorry about the thread drift... But it kind of pisses me of when someone try to pass of opinion as facts and in a rather condescending tone... I was trying to carry on a discussion based on facts, hoping to both learn something and pass on something I have learned... That obviously didn't happen...

 

I am waiting for the xyz ring chain which has multiple shapes and sealing points, each containing a different lubricant. Costs more but its worth it.

 

Obviously whom ever put your press link on didn't do it right I've NEVER had one come off but I have had the clip type fail. BTW i've been riding and working on my bikes for 30 years.

 

Ok i can see your point with on off throttle and jumping but come on man just look at the hp and torque numbers just not seeing it.

 

Oh please, lol

cmon dude, re read the thread and see who's getting **** when, LOL
If it werent for mass consumers like you,with all your urban legend wisdom, many shops would simply go out of buisness .

 

I was a honda service manager for many years, I have seen all I need to see to know better. If you had 50 bikes in your 30 years you wouldnt come even remotely close to seeing the numbers.

And lastly to put a ******* nail in this arguement once and for all -
Lets do a metallurgical challenge between the two types of links.
Who wants to lay some ******* cash on the line here ? -
STEP RIGHT UP ----------- place bets here.

I will personally meet cameron or anyone else to have him spike a link for the test.

you know to be fair about it and all.

If you think your little deformable mushroom links the so called experts in the magazines say are so strong, then they should be able to beat a clip style master link in stress tests , shouldnt they?
I mean come on, this isnt going to require expensive test equipment ...
Just a press and a tool to drive the plate off.
A clip style master link will hold 5 times the lateral pressure and stress before the side-plate snaps off. And it will sure in the hell beat the mushroom cheeze link.
Whatever perceived weakness you think the clip style links have, really is trivial.
And Im confident that after the test is on youtube, and the results are duplicated multiple times
there will still be some squirming and complaining about the results... so this will probably never be a conclusion.
So if you dont like clip links... well you know you can use what ever, right?
You dont even have to live in america to have this right.
The rest of us who know better will do otherwise, and no one should get their feelings hurt.



edit - by the way, someone notified me that people here are confusing clip links with not having o-rings. I see how this might happen in the thread.
There are two parallel arguments going here - to use o-ring chains or not - and to use the press links or older style clip links.
Just to clarify , in case , The clip style master links do come in o-ring types also.
O-ring masterlinks are not the exclusive domain of press-on links.
Both styles of masterlink have o-ring and non-oring types.
(always put the o-rings -all 4- on your masterlink ... regardless of link style , or suffer Tard failures)

 

Dude... you have a PM...

 

Ha! It's late and I'm drinking. But I know this;

Tweety isn't a novice, he's a Viking. He knows how to ride, shoot straight and tell the truth. He knows what he's talking about.

Give Tweety a shallow draft long boat and thirty good men, he'll row into your town and kick your ***.

 

LOL! I like that.
Vikings kick ***.
no problem with Tweety,
But I may shoot the 30 men 1st.

 

Actually my family has had at least one person in the motorcycle parts and or repair bussiness for the last 15 years but I didn't know this was a pissing contest. Anyway use what you like my personal experience contradicts yours but who cares. Not sure why you would think the clip style would be stronger but I would like to see that test btw as a service manager how dirty did your hands get?

 

LOL - sometimes so dirty it takes paint thinnner to clean them.


I was a hands on service manager ( some just sit in the air conditioned office and take calls ), as the commision rates were so good back then for me wrenching, I would take the harder more expensive jobs the other guys would groan about. ( Electrical, Splitting cases , Welding, Goldwing rear tires ... Goldwing Stator replacement(6 hours) you know the hard stuff )

The shop changed ownership and the new owners were a couple of money grubbing new yorkers with ZERO motorcycle buisness knowledge to speak of.
That was the beginning of the end for me earning some parasite a living by my hard work.
Since then its been pretty gravy, cant be fired or prevented from making decisions about my work... All while so many people each week are getting laid-off or fired from other buisnesses.

As for the link preference, theyre both good, its not like the press on links always fail... as the failure rate is nearly the same when you include the people who accidentally put the clip on backwards. Even the backwards clips dont always fail either.
Its all preference, as you know.
My gripe was about physical properties and structure of the part.
And the fact that a device thats retained in that manner would never be allowed to fly on aircraft... Except Airbus.
( yes there are chains of all varieties on aircraft. ) ( and Boeing schools airbus like 3rd graders )

Otherwise .. no biggie.

 

Good for you too many sit on thier asses and act like they know more than the techs but just know more about what page the info is on. oh btw realise is spelled realize just fyi nothing personal here.

 

I misspell all kinds of words typing fast.
Its actually bad these days, in this economy, for service managers to insulate themselves from the service work and allow the techs to hold superior know-how to them selves.
Book trained service managers are the worst.
they are the 1st ones to get a pink slip when a tech in the shop knows more.

 

This whole argument might as well be in Greek or Swahili as far as I'm concerned.

I bought my first street legal bike in March of 1974. I've been riding 8-10 thousand miles per year ever since. I've put 30k+ miles on numerous bikes and never had to replace a chain.

Probably 'cause I clean and lube my chains every 500-600 miles.

 

Boom chikky wow wow Press links cacca muchaco mega poopoo.

 

I'm guessing, but that sounds more like Swahili than Greek to me. FWIW, I've got about 15k miles on my VTR. It's way less than half way to the 'replace" mark on the chain adjuster. My '83 VF750F has a bit over 30k miles with the original chain.

A soft paint brush, kerosene and 80/90 gear oil every 500 miles. Try it, you might be surprised.

Soichiro might have fucked up on the automatic CCTs and 8k OCIs, but I think he got it right on the chain care.

 

Not bloody likely... I have tried rowing a replica Viking long boat for about 10 nautical miles... That's not something I'm going to repeat unless I'm drunk out of my head to start with... Boats should have engines... I'm to darned lazy to be a true Viking...

 

Ok, since this turned into a pissing contest, something I didn't want I'm going to walk away from this thread...

I was as I said above trying to have a technical discussion, and apparently Circuit_Burner interpreted it as me baiting him and responded with what I still regard as a couple of rather uncalled for remarks... My guess is it's partly because my language tends to be rather formal when discussing technical matters, the reason being English to me is a language I have learned in school, not by everyday use...

It's probably fair to say that we have polar opposite opinions in some matters and are at the moment are not the best of friends, my solution to that is to step back and let the dust settle... So for anyone else that wants to tell me something this thread isn't a good place as I won't be reading it...

 

I asked around and got a mixed reponse on the clip/pressed question,I just assumed they were all using O-ring chains.
it's time for a poll

 

Throws more rocks at tweety ...

 

Puts on hard hat...

Ok so I didn't go away... But I got a pm from circuit_burner... It seems we are about equaly whacky the both of us... So back to the scheduled wierdness...