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New SHINDENGEN FH020AA, New PROBLEMS!

Old 07-05-2012, 04:20 PM
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New SHINDENGEN FH020AA, New PROBLEMS!

SO! It begins again...

Got it in the mail Monday. Installed today. Pretty simple, yellow wires go in one connector, red and green in the other. They were even labeled. First time I turned on the key, that 30 amp fuse blows again. WTF I say to myself...
So I buy some more fuses, expecting to get into an electrical battle. Plug another one in and...lights come on? It fires up! Yay! So I say ok, im goin for a quick ride to return the rest of these fuses all triumphant like.
Now I'm going down the road fine for a mile or so. Then... stutter, cough, burble...wtf?...grunt..oh no...clutch in...stall.
I then pull over and try it again. Starts right up!? So I go to put er in gear- DEAD. It just kills it like the side stand is down...but it ain't.
I try again later after pushing for awhile, sweating my *** off. Fires right up. This time I sit on it awhile, letting it purr an charge the battery. Put er in gear, and off I go for another 100 yards or so, then the same thing. Dead.
To summarize things:
New Shindengen FH020AA, which is the new Yamaha R1 replacement for FH012AA. Fires up, but when in gear cuts out.
BTW I measured voltage holding steady throughout rpm at @13.9xx volts. (edit: while in neutral)

Last edited by Bandit400man; 07-05-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:24 PM
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Here are some pics of the install, fresh from today...it they help anyone...


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Old 07-05-2012, 04:52 PM
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Are you getting a good ground with your painted subframe?
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:06 PM
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Hmmm...good thinkin...I'll check that out now..

Well, it should be...cause it'd be goin through the screw, which is in the thread, in the frame..no paint there...but yeah i'll check
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:21 PM
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Ok ground is good, tested using continuity between green wire copper crimp, and random bolt on frame.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:35 PM
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What kind and how old is your battery? And what's the voltage read when it's off?

When one of the cells went dead from undercharging on my battery it had similar symptoms...
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:44 PM
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Battery still strong, last measured at rest at @ 12.62V...Somethings screwy here guys, beyond the typical issues...Maybe the ordering of the yellow wires? But all that Ive read say it doesn't matter...And like I said before, idling, the battery was just shy of 14V steady as I slowly twisted the throttle...which would be on par with a functioning R/R...

Electricity SUCKS!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:10 PM
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I checked the kickstand switch too...when this first happened, the light flickered a lil...maybe it was loose connection? Would a loose kickstand switch cause it to cough an stutter an eventually kill it? Me thinks yes...

I came to this conclusion because I attached the voltmeter to the battery and held in the clutch, shifting up in gears...to 6th, then slowly let it out with a board on the tire for some friction and let it idle for a little...steady voltage @ 13.68...no drop or anything weird.

Again....wtf? Tomorrow I'll take it out for another (shorter) spin to test the loose kickstand switch theory...
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:48 PM
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Bypass your side stand switch to check if it is faulty. Mine left me stranded at a gas station the day I replaced my r/r and battery also, luckily 7moore7 was online and helped me figure it out. It is a possibility that the switch can get fried when the r/r goes bad, and I dont see any reason for your symptoms to be r/r related.

To bypass the switch, use a wire or paper clip inserted into each green wire on the switch plug. If youre bike is 98-00, it is the outside wires, if 01 and up there are only two wires. Temporarily bypass it, take it for a ride and see what happens. If it stalls again, its not the switch. If the ride goes flawless, that is the culprit. I crimped the two green wires together, wrapped them in heat shrink, and tucked them up into the frame and havent touched it since then with no problems. If you do this, just make sure to check your side stand EVERY TIME you ride, or you will do this

How Not to Start a Group Ride - YouTube
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:13 PM
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Awesome man thanks...yeah I read that in your response to mrrealness an his thread about dieing in first.
I'll let you guys know how it works out tomorrow afternoon...

An funny vid, dude couldn't pick up his bike? time for some pee pee push-ups! LOL
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:38 PM
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UPDATE!
so I jumped the stand pins. An as soon as I shifted it died? Wtf? Green to green, right? LIght was off....
So I plug things back in an go for a quick ride. Everything seems fine so I leave for my friends house. Well, @ 3 miles down the road, it acts up again...this time I immediately shift into neutral an save it so its still running. Wait a min or two then rev it good...still not dying. So I managed to get it home.
Ok now Wtf. Just plain wrong model r/r? Defective? I didn't give feedback yet to dude on fleabay, so I have a lil teeth if I gotta ask for money back to get a different one.
So It's time to ask, is this another, unexpected electrical fallout from the failed r/r?
Please help me! I see bikes everywhere an i ain't on one of em!

Last edited by Bandit400man; 07-06-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:07 PM
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It's not the r/r based on that- the r/r will slowly, but surely drain the battery (or destroy it!). Not intermittently run the bike.

If you jumped the kickstand switch and it didn't run you need to address this first.

A similar thing will happen with your clutch switch. Check those plugs (on the underside of the clutch MC if I remember correctly), and if need be connect them to run the bike. This is assuming that the switch completes the circuit when the clutch is disengaged, which I'm not certain of, but would makes sense from a failsafe standpoint.

Make sure those two connections are working, as the motorcycle is designed to not run if your sidestand is down. It is also not designed to be able to start unless the clutch is pulled in when you're in gear, which shouldn't cause you problems, but you never know

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Old 07-06-2012, 03:15 PM
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Sounds like a bad ground somewhere, check all of the grounds especially battery and any wireharness grounds and any other freaking green wire you can see.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:16 PM
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Good lookin man...guess from here I'll test each switch somehow...
Anything else?
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:19 PM
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Ok grounds...Gotcha. this sounds like its gonna suck lol
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:49 PM
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Judging by the pictures you posted, it looks as if the green ground wired bolted to the subframe is attached behind the regulator. That ring terminal really should be put on the bolt first before mounting the regulator, especially since you have a painted subframe AND only one bolt holding the regulator.

That looks like it could be causing intermittent grounding.

The other ground to look at is on the right side near the radiator.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:56 PM
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It appears to be on the correct side of the r/r, check your grounds at your coils also.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:04 PM
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Its your ground.

And doing a quick continuity check wont reveal the issues that occur under load at higher demand levels.

The painted subframe is at least partially to blame.
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
Judging by the pictures you posted, it looks as if the green ground wired bolted to the subframe is attached behind the regulator. That ring terminal really should be put on the bolt first before mounting the regulator, especially since you have a painted subframe AND only one bolt holding the regulator.

That looks like it could be causing intermittent grounding.

The other ground to look at is on the right side near the radiator.
I agree. The R/R outer case though metal serves no electrical purpose so it needs no ground wire attached to it. Take the green ground wire to a piece of the frame that's been scrubbed clean of any paint.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:38 AM
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Is the R/R new? If its used then it might be bad. I had one similar to what yours is doing and it checked out on the meter too! It ended up boiling over another battery on me.... I replaced it with another r/r and no problems since...
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
Judging by the pictures you posted, it looks as if the green ground wired bolted to the subframe is attached behind the regulator. That ring terminal really should be put on the bolt first before mounting the regulator, especially since you have a painted subframe AND only one bolt holding the regulator.

That looks like it could be causing intermittent grounding.

The other ground to look at is on the right side near the radiator.
Originally Posted by CrankenFine View Post
I agree. The R/R outer case though metal serves no electrical purpose so it needs no ground wire attached to it. Take the green ground wire to a piece of the frame that's been scrubbed clean of any paint.
Actually, that ground wire could be cut off and the R/R would still work correctly... It serves no other purpose than as a secondary ground to discharge the circuit when the battery is disconnected... The main current to ground will always flow through the cable going to the battery terminals, and then grounding on the engine block...

As it is positioned it makes contact with the entire bolthead, and then grounds through the threads to the frame, making it completely irrelevant if the frame is painted and if it makes contact with the R/R metal body...

So, in conclusion, it's correctly placed, and even if it wasn't it couldn't cause problems even remotely similar to this... Can we move on please?

Also, since the R/R grounds through the battery terminals, the painted subframe makes absolutely no difference to grounding... It does make a difference to heat travel though...

But it's still a very good idea to check grounding in all other area's as it's still a very probable cause... Just not that way...

Last edited by Tweety; 07-07-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jeephawk View Post
Is the R/R new? If its used then it might be bad. I had one similar to what yours is doing and it checked out on the meter too! It ended up boiling over another battery on me.... I replaced it with another r/r and no problems since...
I remember that one!

+1
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:15 AM
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BTW, it's hard to tell by the small images... But you have the stock crimped connectors on thiose wires still right?

With a failed R/R, the ends of tose wires are usually cooked, and have a rather hig resistance... So not cutting them off and either replacing the connectors on the fresh wire, or splicing in longer bits is a good way to get problems... Just saying...
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:37 AM
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Since you are already digging around, this company (guy) sells top notch waterproof connectors in case you dont want to do the whole job again in 2 weeks

R/R Connectors
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:56 AM
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What I see on the wiring diagram is that the 2 ground points mentioned above feed return current for the sidestand switch. If those grounds are in bad shape, this could cause the engine to cut out.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
What I see on the wiring diagram is that the 2 ground points mentioned above feed return current for the sidestand switch. If those grounds are in bad shape, this could cause the engine to cut out.
So you are trying to convince me that the sidestand switch is grounded up under your ****, and not by a point around the sidestand itself? I'd adwise you to go have a look at your bike...

Face it, the wiring diagram is a schematic overview, it shows about half of the actual ground points to begin with, and the only reason for the short loop of ground wire around the R/R is what I stated above... When you unplug the battery, the charged components in the R/R need to discharge... To make life easier on the other components that dislike pulses, it has it's own dedicate wire to bypass them...

The bike runs fine with it completely disconnected, or even cut off where it connects to the wire harness... But you risk frying stuff if you disconnect the battery directly after running the engine and it's not connected, unlikely but could happen...

It could also be completely corroded, it wouldn't matter to the running of the bike...
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:38 AM
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If you blew a fuse then that means a short. I know there is a red and green stickers on the r/r but verify that they are correct. Ive seen them both ways. It depends on the make and model of the r/r. Was the battery disconnected before you connected the r/r? If not you may have touched the leads during install and messed things up.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:15 AM
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Man that's lots of good info, thanks guys! Yeah I figured a bad ground was unlikely...but It's always an easy scapegoat.
I didn't put new contacts onto the wires tweety, An they are kind of toasty looking...
I did not disconnect the battery upon installation jeephawk...
I'll look into all there possibilities Sunday, today is fishing an some facetime with the sun!
You guys have been so helpful, keep em commin!
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:56 AM
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UPDATE!
Caught a few small catfish last night..nothing to brag about
Anyway, I just got done doing some testing.
Side stand switch: ok, no problems.
Alternator Charging coil: Ok, tested @ 0.5 ohms between each terminal and ground.
R/R..just to be sure: constant V between red/wht and ground; check. Continuity between green ground and block; checked (repeatedly). Resistance between each yellow; 0.5ohms, check. Continuity between yellow and block; none, check.
Clutch swtich: Continuity when lever squeezed, none when released, check.
Neutral switch: Continuity when in neutral, none in other gears, check.....matter of fact im going to actually check all gears...only did 1st an second...its kina tricky to hold lol.
So yeah. wtf now?
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:15 PM
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Upon closer examination, I got the neutral switch to fault...
Id shift up, test, shift down, test each gear...but sometimes while in neutral (wheel spinning) the switch wouldn't have continuity...an then wiggle it a little..buzz buzz...weird like..definitely worthy of replacement (as long as it ain't like...50 bucks LOL)
Could that alone be the cause of said problems?
Oh an BTW, anyone that wants to get in on this I'd suggest reading top down..***** gettin DEEP LOL
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