Idle problem (video)
11-29-2010, 02:35 AM
#31
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Aha, that confirms two things... it hasen't failed catastrophicly and it will...
(since it is then infact diode based... )
Then you got the fun part of playing with corrosion left...
(since it is then infact diode based... )Then you got the fun part of playing with corrosion left...
11-29-2010, 06:56 AM
#32
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the idle situation we'll see how that progresses, im not sure if I'll have any riding time left in the season to work that one out....
11-29-2010, 07:23 AM
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12-02-2010, 07:51 PM
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pull the odometer fuse and see if you still have a drain (behind tank under seat, blue 10 believe). There is a thread on here if you search. I was screwing around with this issue like a nut for a few weeks and finally ended up with 2 new batteries and 2 R/Rs before I got things sorted out. PIA
12-02-2010, 07:54 PM
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12-03-2010, 07:43 AM
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thanks for the reply, I read all those but it still comes up somewhat inconclusive. the drain from the instruments still shouldn't be that high. i will try disassembling the instrument and taking a look inside and de-corroding all the terminals I can find.
I too have jsut purchased a new batt, but my riding season is just over and likely won't be able to do any more testing, the bike is just sitting now until nicer weather arrives. I am also looking at getting a more effecient RR.... even though everything else on my bike checks out normal.... I will have to see if it resolves the idle issue but i'm highly skeptical.
I too have jsut purchased a new batt, but my riding season is just over and likely won't be able to do any more testing, the bike is just sitting now until nicer weather arrives. I am also looking at getting a more effecient RR.... even though everything else on my bike checks out normal.... I will have to see if it resolves the idle issue but i'm highly skeptical.
12-03-2010, 08:02 AM
#37
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thanks for the reply, I read all those but it still comes up somewhat inconclusive. the drain from the instruments still shouldn't be that high. i will try disassembling the instrument and taking a look inside and de-corroding all the terminals I can find.
I too have jsut purchased a new batt, but my riding season is just over and likely won't be able to do any more testing, the bike is just sitting now until nicer weather arrives. I am also looking at getting a more effecient RR.... even though everything else on my bike checks out normal.... I will have to see if it resolves the idle issue but i'm highly skeptical.
I too have jsut purchased a new batt, but my riding season is just over and likely won't be able to do any more testing, the bike is just sitting now until nicer weather arrives. I am also looking at getting a more effecient RR.... even though everything else on my bike checks out normal.... I will have to see if it resolves the idle issue but i'm highly skeptical.
You have corrosion in the cluster or the connectors to it, and most likely in several other connectors all over the bike combined with a few wires that have internal corrosion and are marginally underdimensioned to begin with... One corroded connector isn't going to make a big difference, ten of them will...
While the rest of the bike "checks out normal" as you say, have you gone over the wiring harness with the Ohm meter? Anything that isn't 0.01 Ohm or lower is considered a suspect...
Replacing the R/R will likely cure the problem temporary, but it's the same as the float charger, a patch... Finding all the corrosion and fixing that plus increasing the grounding for the R/R and at the front of the wiring harness will make sure you don't have any future problems as well...
It's a royal PITA to do, and takes a lot of time and patience... But it is rewarding in the end...
BTW, adding it to this already long post... Yes, swapping the gauges for the never one's is easy... There are several detailed instructions on the forum, and several other options for using other gauges as well...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-03-2010 at 08:12 AM.
12-03-2010, 05:03 PM
#38
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You are misreading what I have been saying... The R/R alone makes a big difference, but it's not the whole problem, nor the whole fix... Neither is the gauge cluster...
You have corrosion in the cluster or the connectors to it, and most likely in several other connectors all over the bike combined with a few wires that have internal corrosion and are marginally underdimensioned to begin with... One corroded connector isn't going to make a big difference, ten of them will...
While the rest of the bike "checks out normal" as you say, have you gone over the wiring harness with the Ohm meter? Anything that isn't 0.01 Ohm or lower is considered a suspect...
Replacing the R/R will likely cure the problem temporary, but it's the same as the float charger, a patch... Finding all the corrosion and fixing that plus increasing the grounding for the R/R and at the front of the wiring harness will make sure you don't have any future problems as well...
It's a royal PITA to do, and takes a lot of time and patience... But it is rewarding in the end...
BTW, adding it to this already long post... Yes, swapping the gauges for the never one's is easy... There are several detailed instructions on the forum, and several other options for using other gauges as well...
You have corrosion in the cluster or the connectors to it, and most likely in several other connectors all over the bike combined with a few wires that have internal corrosion and are marginally underdimensioned to begin with... One corroded connector isn't going to make a big difference, ten of them will...
While the rest of the bike "checks out normal" as you say, have you gone over the wiring harness with the Ohm meter? Anything that isn't 0.01 Ohm or lower is considered a suspect...
Replacing the R/R will likely cure the problem temporary, but it's the same as the float charger, a patch... Finding all the corrosion and fixing that plus increasing the grounding for the R/R and at the front of the wiring harness will make sure you don't have any future problems as well...
It's a royal PITA to do, and takes a lot of time and patience... But it is rewarding in the end...
BTW, adding it to this already long post... Yes, swapping the gauges for the never one's is easy... There are several detailed instructions on the forum, and several other options for using other gauges as well...
when and if I get any further info and results I will keep posted. Thanks again for everyone input.
12-06-2010, 07:23 PM
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so... it was about 32/0 deg outside but I put the new battery in the bike and took it for a spin. It did not improve the situation, the bike still cuts out and also backfire through the airbox (which I can feel). Any ideas about the backfiring thru the airbox?
I also noticed that when I was taking off from a stand still in a rather quick launch that the bike made a rather loud crunch sound, it has happened before to a lesser extent(not taking off as aggressively) and I didn't think much of it. It felt like it was coming from the clutch or from the sprockets but I didn't yet have time to take a look(it was dark and very cold), I'll report back when I get a chance to take a look.
I have my eyes on some RR and also will pull all the wiring I can and take a look at it.
I also noticed that when I was taking off from a stand still in a rather quick launch that the bike made a rather loud crunch sound, it has happened before to a lesser extent(not taking off as aggressively) and I didn't think much of it. It felt like it was coming from the clutch or from the sprockets but I didn't yet have time to take a look(it was dark and very cold), I'll report back when I get a chance to take a look.
I have my eyes on some RR and also will pull all the wiring I can and take a look at it.
12-07-2010, 12:43 AM
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At that temp I kind of doubt you got full working temperature on you short test, so if I where you I'd ignore that backfire and test again under decent conditions...
As for the sound, with that info... Dunno...
As for the sound, with that info... Dunno...
12-07-2010, 04:30 AM
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It's sometimes difficult to diagnose from afar, especially because there can be diverse issues occurring simultaneously. What amazes me is how finicky the carbs are with respect to small adjustments like air mix, TPS, air filter, slip-ons, carb sync, etc.
Before I got into the carbs, I had to set the idling up to alleviate stalls, backfires were occasional yet common on decel in the form of popping, and there was a somewhat disconcerting "clunk" thrown into the mix(maybe your "crunch" sound, I don't know?). My point is that, if everything carb-wise is not set up right, this V-Twin can be erratic and emit some weird sounds and symptoms that can lead you to think the whole thing is ready to come unglued.
Before I got into the carbs, I had to set the idling up to alleviate stalls, backfires were occasional yet common on decel in the form of popping, and there was a somewhat disconcerting "clunk" thrown into the mix(maybe your "crunch" sound, I don't know?). My point is that, if everything carb-wise is not set up right, this V-Twin can be erratic and emit some weird sounds and symptoms that can lead you to think the whole thing is ready to come unglued.
12-07-2010, 12:18 PM
#42
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It's sometimes difficult to diagnose from afar, especially because there can be diverse issues occurring simultaneously. What amazes me is how finicky the carbs are with respect to small adjustments like air mix, TPS, air filter, slip-ons, carb sync, etc.
Before I got into the carbs, I had to set the idling up to alleviate stalls, backfires were occasional yet common on decel in the form of popping, and there was a somewhat disconcerting "clunk" thrown into the mix(maybe your "crunch" sound, I don't know?). My point is that, if everything carb-wise is not set up right, this V-Twin can be erratic and emit some weird sounds and symptoms that can lead you to think the whole thing is ready to come unglued.
Before I got into the carbs, I had to set the idling up to alleviate stalls, backfires were occasional yet common on decel in the form of popping, and there was a somewhat disconcerting "clunk" thrown into the mix(maybe your "crunch" sound, I don't know?). My point is that, if everything carb-wise is not set up right, this V-Twin can be erratic and emit some weird sounds and symptoms that can lead you to think the whole thing is ready to come unglued.
What ended up solving the current drain for you? or does it still exist? on th eother hand my turn signals seem to be working instantly as soon as I hit the switch which is funny because they were giving the previous owner a hard time when I purchased the bike from him. They were very lagged in coming on...
12-07-2010, 01:13 PM
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on a side note, I decided to leave the new batt in the bike but just pull the odometer fuse. with the fuse removed I placed the multimeter leads one in each of the odometer female terminals and of course as I expected there was a 0.5mA current drain....BUT when I turn the key in the ignition the odometer still lights up on the dash showing XXXXX miles and I can still toggle between the trip/odometer settings?? what gives? If I have the fuse removed shouldnt the circuit be open and not functioning? according to the wiring diagram the odometer is the R/G wire and it doesn't have a ground wire which is also confusing me in-and-of itself....
12-08-2010, 01:25 AM
#44
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on a side note, I decided to leave the new batt in the bike but just pull the odometer fuse. with the fuse removed I placed the multimeter leads one in each of the odometer female terminals and of course as I expected there was a 0.5mA current drain....BUT when I turn the key in the ignition the odometer still lights up on the dash showing XXXXX miles and I can still toggle between the trip/odometer settings?? what gives? If I have the fuse removed shouldnt the circuit be open and not functioning? according to the wiring diagram the odometer is the R/G wire and it doesn't have a ground wire which is also confusing me in-and-of itself....
12-08-2010, 04:14 AM
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on a side note, I decided to leave the new batt in the bike but just pull the odometer fuse. with the fuse removed I placed the multimeter leads one in each of the odometer female terminals and of course as I expected there was a 0.5mA current drain....BUT when I turn the key in the ignition the odometer still lights up on the dash showing XXXXX miles and I can still toggle between the trip/odometer settings?? what gives? If I have the fuse removed shouldnt the circuit be open and not functioning? according to the wiring diagram the odometer is the R/G wire and it doesn't have a ground wire which is also confusing me in-and-of itself....
12-08-2010, 11:14 AM
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This from a layman's perspective.............the odometer controls the real accumulated mileage vs the trip meter which measures mileage parcels operate independently in this sense: the latter has a memory function, which is the cause of the battery draw; thus, when the fuse is removed, the odometer still works per ride but will not carry over/remember the previous trip mileage when the bike is turned off.
12-08-2010, 03:06 PM
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Those electrically inclined members will be able to accommodate you because I'm with you in terms of the confusion.
Last edited by nath981; 12-08-2010 at 03:11 PM.
12-08-2010, 05:50 PM
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12-09-2010, 06:33 PM
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Well... And when you where looking, did you happen to notice the 6 groundpoints where the harness ground connects to the frame, carrying ground to the other points, one being the engine block and a strap to the battery? The whole metal structure is the ground... No need for wires between all parts that way...
BTW for the odo specifically, the "ground" is connected through the speedsensor...
BTW for the odo specifically, the "ground" is connected through the speedsensor...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-09-2010 at 06:37 PM.
12-09-2010, 07:56 PM
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Well... And when you where looking, did you happen to notice the 6 groundpoints where the harness ground connects to the frame, carrying ground to the other points, one being the engine block and a strap to the battery? The whole metal structure is the ground... No need for wires between all parts that way...
BTW for the odo specifically, the "ground" is connected through the speedsensor...
BTW for the odo specifically, the "ground" is connected through the speedsensor...
the odometer/trip meter circuits come off the R wire straight form the battery as R/G bypassing the ignition, and going to the odometer/trip meter, there is no other wire to or from the trip meter.
Last edited by 20_rc51_00; 12-09-2010 at 08:01 PM.
12-10-2010, 01:19 AM
#53
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Well... Unless you want to start tearing the gauge cluster apart to prove me wrong you are just going to have to trust me... There is no wire as in a piece of metal strands wrapped in plastic or a line on the drawing... But it's connected to other parts of the gauges, sharing their ground... Take the odo circuit out and apply pulses to the red/green wire holding it in mid air and it will just ignore you...
And yes, I have had my gauge apart several times for several reasons...
And yes, I have had my gauge apart several times for several reasons...
12-10-2010, 08:11 PM
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it's not that I don't believe you, but the wiring diagram must be incorrect.... My understanding of electronics is not advanced but I know enough that the odometer needs to be grounded and circuit completed for current to be conducted.... I was operating under the presumption that the wiring diagram was correct.
12-11-2010, 02:49 AM
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Well... The wiring diagram is correct, and so are your basic understanding of electronics... The diagram just doesn't show all details... It shows all wires and their color, and the main groundpoints, but it doesn't detail that the cluster is internally bolted together and share ground for some purposes...
The reason it isn't showing that, is that it wouldn't help you locate a damaged/corroded wire anyways, since you would then look for a "wire" that only existed on the diagram, not in real life... Instead you are shown the actual wires going in and out but not what is inside and considered "not user servicable" by Honda...
BTW you might notice that there is also no wires on the diagram showing any connection to the speedsensor or any other sensor telling the odo how far you have traveled... But still it knows... It's not wireless... It's just that those are inside the cluster and you are not supposed to open that, so the diagram isn't showing it...
And as a matter of fact, I wouldn't recommend opening it up unless you need too... If I'm right, you have the old type of cluster right? with a bunch of wires going into the back by a small eye connector and a bolt? That bolt is where all the corrosion happens anyway, so loosening it, cleaning and sealing with a dab of vaseline doesn't mean you need to open the cluster...
The reason it isn't showing that, is that it wouldn't help you locate a damaged/corroded wire anyways, since you would then look for a "wire" that only existed on the diagram, not in real life... Instead you are shown the actual wires going in and out but not what is inside and considered "not user servicable" by Honda...
BTW you might notice that there is also no wires on the diagram showing any connection to the speedsensor or any other sensor telling the odo how far you have traveled... But still it knows... It's not wireless... It's just that those are inside the cluster and you are not supposed to open that, so the diagram isn't showing it...
And as a matter of fact, I wouldn't recommend opening it up unless you need too... If I'm right, you have the old type of cluster right? with a bunch of wires going into the back by a small eye connector and a bolt? That bolt is where all the corrosion happens anyway, so loosening it, cleaning and sealing with a dab of vaseline doesn't mean you need to open the cluster...
12-11-2010, 02:50 AM
#56
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Oh... BTW, if you like I have linked a colored schematic here, www.tweety.se/links.php
It's near the bottom, ignore the swedish text...
I find it annoying to go look for the color codes to know the color of wire I'm looking at, and my brain works better with visual than textbased information, so that helps me...
It's near the bottom, ignore the swedish text...
I find it annoying to go look for the color codes to know the color of wire I'm looking at, and my brain works better with visual than textbased information, so that helps me...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-11-2010 at 02:53 AM.
