Dead Red Hawk
10-13-2008, 01:09 PM
#1
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Squid
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 45
Dead Red Hawk
Ok. I went for a long ride yesterday, about 110 miles. This morning when I go to start the bike it cranks slowly. and the battery dies. The PO said he replaced the battery this year, but the R/R I believe is still stock. Would that be the most likely thing? It's a 98' with 17k.
10-14-2008, 09:09 AM
#4
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Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brooklyn, CT
Posts: 287
I just posted this last week, but unplug the R/R and see if the battery holds a charge overnight or a couple of days. It's most likely the R/R but it could be the stator.
I just did the swap on Thursday and it is very easy. Got the R/R for $65 (aftermarket) but I think that was dealer cost.
I just did the swap on Thursday and it is very easy. Got the R/R for $65 (aftermarket) but I think that was dealer cost.
10-14-2008, 10:11 AM
#5
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SuperSport
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 809
R/R! mine used to do the same thing. would barely turn over but once running it was ok... until it wasn't. there will come a time soon when it worn't even try to turn over. I got the new eom R/R with the heat fins. you can use an R1 part if you want, but this one's been going for over a year now with no issues.
10-22-2008, 07:28 PM
#6
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Squid
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 45
I replaced the the r/r with a new aftermaket r6 unit. Charged the battery. kicked over. tried again and it died. I hooked the charger back up and jump started it and it started up and ran fine. Then i went for a 20 minute ride when I got back I shut the bike off and tried starting again and no luck. I'm getting depressed. Is my battery shot, Stator?
But try what nuhawk said first.
10-23-2008, 06:06 AM
#9
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SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,572
If the battery has been run down several times it probably won't bounce back fully... We use big car battery size 55AH gel cells in our portable computer carts and they ceratinly don't like to be fully drained and not recharged right away.
10-24-2008, 06:16 PM
#10
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Squid
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Ok I bought a new battery yesterday, Went for a ride. Shut it down and it started back up. This morning I tried to start it and It cranked but not as fast and eventually the battery died. I charged it again went for a ride and my gauges shut down. I continued to ride and when I tried using the signal it died, So while still rolling I pop started it. Rode 2 more miles and it died. I had to have someone pick up the bike. When I put the key in the gauges and lights are workin but when I hit the starter I get nothing. I'm guessing the only possible solution is the stator. Is there a way to test it?
10-24-2008, 07:09 PM
#13
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
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I had similar problems recently and took the battery out and took it a shop and had it tested. Although it was relatively new, it tested as bad. I then bought a new Yuasa(78.00) and as I was connecting the negative cable, I smelled something burning, then smoke from the R/R. By the time I figured it out and removed the cable, the R/R was cooked, i.e., melted. I bought a new R/R from Honda shop(177.00) and hesitantly hooked it up(this time I held the negative cable on the battery until I was sure it was not going to cook the R/R.
So, new battery and new R/R and started it up, had friend rev to 5000rpm and checked the charge at battery which read 13.8v indicating that the stator is charging. So far so good. I'll post additional problems if they occur.
Note: new Yuasa- I charged it myself because i didn't want to wait at the Honda shop. according to the Yuasa directions, the protocal for new battery set-up is critical. I bought a new battery and know it wasn't prepared correctly and it failed prematurely. So if you buy a new battery and want to make sure it is prepared properly, you may want to do it yourself.
So, new battery and new R/R and started it up, had friend rev to 5000rpm and checked the charge at battery which read 13.8v indicating that the stator is charging. So far so good. I'll post additional problems if they occur.
Note: new Yuasa- I charged it myself because i didn't want to wait at the Honda shop. according to the Yuasa directions, the protocal for new battery set-up is critical. I bought a new battery and know it wasn't prepared correctly and it failed prematurely. So if you buy a new battery and want to make sure it is prepared properly, you may want to do it yourself.
10-24-2008, 07:38 PM
#14
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MotoGP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
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It's not like a stator has never failed for a member. I would do some searching in the archives before buying parts. Yes, they do fail but not real common. If you bought your battery at Tractor Supply you can cook a $5o battery in one deep cycle discharge and it will never come back. Big ***** and long cards would take the battery back to Tractor Supply and claim it's defective. Get a new one. Try again. If you bought a $110 battery and it cratered then I would think it is the stator.
10-24-2008, 07:43 PM
#15
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MotoGP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 4,138
I had similar problems recently and took the battery out and took it a shop and had it tested. Although it was relatively new, it tested as bad. I then bought a new Yuasa(78.00) and as I was connecting the negative cable, I smelled something burning, then smoke from the R/R. By the time I figured it out and removed the cable, the R/R was cooked, i.e., melted. I bought a new R/R from Honda shop(177.00) and hesitantly hooked it up(this time I held the negative cable on the battery until I was sure it was not going to cook the R/R.
So, new battery and new R/R and started it up, had friend rev to 5000rpm and checked the charge at battery which read 13.8v indicating that the stator is charging. So far so good. I'll post additional problems if they occur.
Note: new Yuasa- I charged it myself because i didn't want to wait at the Honda shop. according to the Yuasa directions, the protocal for new battery set-up is critical. I bought a new battery and know it wasn't prepared correctly and it failed prematurely. So if you buy a new battery and want to make sure it is prepared properly, you may want to do it yourself.
So, new battery and new R/R and started it up, had friend rev to 5000rpm and checked the charge at battery which read 13.8v indicating that the stator is charging. So far so good. I'll post additional problems if they occur.
Note: new Yuasa- I charged it myself because i didn't want to wait at the Honda shop. according to the Yuasa directions, the protocal for new battery set-up is critical. I bought a new battery and know it wasn't prepared correctly and it failed prematurely. So if you buy a new battery and want to make sure it is prepared properly, you may want to do it yourself.
10-27-2008, 12:30 PM
#16
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Squid
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Ok when I Run the bike and check voltage across the terminals with a multimeter the voltage drops. And when I REV It drops even more. I tested batt. terminal to lead from rectifier and they read like 30+ when the're supposed to read .2v. Also when I pul the odometer fuse the Odo is still functioning? I'm all confused.
10-27-2008, 04:56 PM
#17
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I am not an electrical genius, but when testing battery voltage with the engine reved to 5000rpm, there should be a jump(to 13.8v) from the battery voltage with the motor off(12volts or a little higher). When you rev the engine, the stator/alternator should charge the battery and read 13.8v or better.
I can't comment on your rectifier test because like I said, I am not an electrical........... As far as the odometer fuse, It doesn't seem to be responsible for anything but odometer memory when the bike is not running. In other words, the odometer will work while the bike is runnuing, but won't remember what it read before you shut it off. So when you start the bike, the odometer will not be working or start at 0 again, I'm not sure which.
My experience with the R/R is that if it looks like it is melted or distorted on the side mounted next to the frame, it has overheated and probably not worth keeping.
hope this and previous info on this forum helps you.
I can't comment on your rectifier test because like I said, I am not an electrical........... As far as the odometer fuse, It doesn't seem to be responsible for anything but odometer memory when the bike is not running. In other words, the odometer will work while the bike is runnuing, but won't remember what it read before you shut it off. So when you start the bike, the odometer will not be working or start at 0 again, I'm not sure which.
My experience with the R/R is that if it looks like it is melted or distorted on the side mounted next to the frame, it has overheated and probably not worth keeping.
hope this and previous info on this forum helps you.
10-27-2008, 05:41 PM
#19
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I replaced the R/R and still had a problem. I took the battery out and had it tested and it was shot. Probably when the R/R goes, it wreaks havoc with the battery and the stator. Like I said, if you are not showing increase in volts with the engine reved, then it's probably time to replace the stator.
10-28-2008, 07:24 AM
#20
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Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brooklyn, CT
Posts: 287
Well, my r/r looked perfectly fine, but it was dead. If you replaced your and only had one ride on it you can normally assume that is not the problem. Going out for a ride with the new r/r and having the bike die sounds like either a bad battery or a dead stator. If the stator is dead, the battery will be supplying all the juice.....lights, signals, fan, spark....
Stator is my guess, but you may want to take it to a shop to have them diagnose it so that you don't waste $$....but then the shop charge would probably be at least half of a stator.
Stator is my guess, but you may want to take it to a shop to have them diagnose it so that you don't waste $$....but then the shop charge would probably be at least half of a stator.
11-19-2008, 06:08 PM
#22
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Squid
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 45
Ok, Now im pissed. It's been like a month since I rode,its 27 degrees right now. I just installed a brand new Stator assuming it was the problem. Nope. So........ new R/R , battery, now stator and the battery still isnt charging. WTF. checked all the conections too. Well I guess I got the whole winter to figure it out. Anyone near RI, Southeast Mass want to help a brother out it'd be awesome.
11-19-2008, 07:17 PM
#23
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MotoGP
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Ok, Now im pissed. It's been like a month since I rode,its 27 degrees right now. I just installed a brand new Stator assuming it was the problem. Nope. So........ new R/R , battery, now stator and the battery still isnt charging. WTF. checked all the conections too. Well I guess I got the whole winter to figure it out. Anyone near RI, Southeast Mass want to help a brother out it'd be awesome.
11-20-2008, 11:23 AM
#26
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
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i wish i could solve this problem, but it's an enigma to me. I started having the starting/dead battery issue several months ago.
1) I couldn't diagnose the culprit with the shop manual described tests.
2) figured it was the notorius R/R problem. I purchased a Rick's Electric R/R and installed. Problem solved. I don't think so.
3) I got stuck on the road and couldn't jump battery(another story). Bought a battery from Advance Auto that was not prepared according to the directions because i didn't have hours to wait.
4) Got home. battery dead next day. bought new Yuasa and prepared it to directions. I installed the new battery(pos connect on first; grd on next). as I was turning grd connector bolt, I smelled burning followed by smoke arising from the R/R area.
5) pulled grd connector off and thought that I overcharged the new Yuasa and fried the R/R? I compared voltage of battery with my car battery and they read the same. So don't ask me why it melted.
6) I road to the Honda shop and bought a new R/R. Installed the R/R and connected the battery the same as before and was expecting to possibly
fry the new 170 dollar R/R. I held the grd connector on the battery by hand to see if the R/R was going to get hot so I wouldn't ruin it. It didn't heat up and smoke so I hooked it up.
7) I started the Hawk and a Honda shop employee came out with a volt meter to see if there might be a problem with the stator. It was charging the battery to 13.7v.
8) So far no problems. Rick's replaced the R/R, so now I have that as a spare.
that was my experience. i'm sure there is an answer to this riddle, But I'm not sure what it is.
1) I couldn't diagnose the culprit with the shop manual described tests.
2) figured it was the notorius R/R problem. I purchased a Rick's Electric R/R and installed. Problem solved. I don't think so.
3) I got stuck on the road and couldn't jump battery(another story). Bought a battery from Advance Auto that was not prepared according to the directions because i didn't have hours to wait.
4) Got home. battery dead next day. bought new Yuasa and prepared it to directions. I installed the new battery(pos connect on first; grd on next). as I was turning grd connector bolt, I smelled burning followed by smoke arising from the R/R area.
5) pulled grd connector off and thought that I overcharged the new Yuasa and fried the R/R? I compared voltage of battery with my car battery and they read the same. So don't ask me why it melted.
6) I road to the Honda shop and bought a new R/R. Installed the R/R and connected the battery the same as before and was expecting to possibly
fry the new 170 dollar R/R. I held the grd connector on the battery by hand to see if the R/R was going to get hot so I wouldn't ruin it. It didn't heat up and smoke so I hooked it up.
7) I started the Hawk and a Honda shop employee came out with a volt meter to see if there might be a problem with the stator. It was charging the battery to 13.7v.
8) So far no problems. Rick's replaced the R/R, so now I have that as a spare.
that was my experience. i'm sure there is an answer to this riddle, But I'm not sure what it is.
11-22-2008, 06:36 PM
#28
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Oh yea. Note: new Yuasa- I charged it myself because i didn't want to wait at the Honda shop. according to the Yuasa directions, the protocal for new battery set-up is critical. I bought a new battery and know it wasn't prepared correctly and it failed prematurely. So if you buy a new battery and want to make sure it is prepared properly, you may want to do it yourself.
If your battery was not full charged according to protocol, it is likely the culprit. The stator could be good, yet unable to charge a failed battery possibly? have the battery tested first.
Last edited by nath981; 11-22-2008 at 07:36 PM. Reason: ps: battery
12-22-2008, 03:24 AM
#29
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10
You can test the integrity of the stator wiring and windings as follows: disconnect the plug at the RR. set your multimeter to Ohms scale and measure the resistance between each of the yellow wires in pairs i.e 1-2, 1-3, 2-3. The readings should be 0.2 ohms - 0.5 ohms for each pair. Then check that there is no connection between each of the yellow wires and the bike chassis (negative), you should get an open circuit reading on your multi meter i.e infinite resistance. If you obtain results other than those described above then the stator wiring and/or wiring to the stator is faulty. If you find a fault there is another connector between the RR and the stator, disconnect this and perform the tests again at the RR connector, this will help you pinpoint the problem. Before deciding the stator is faulty check all the wiring to it make sure its not pinched or otherwise damaged.
If the stator is OK reconncet RR and 1. measure the battery V with the ignition off.
2. Start the engine and measure batt V, it should be higher that the 1st reading around 14V +- 0.2 V
3. Then measure the V on the green & red/white wires from the RR this should be the same as the V in step 2.
If its higher you may have a high resistance between the RR red/white and battery positive (check the main fuse in the starter relay left side under seat cowl) or a bad ground connection on RR or batt negative (look for corrosion).
If its lower you may have a short circuit between the red/white wire and ground.
If all of these check out OK then suspect the RR.
Never charge a sealed bike battery on a car charger, they push too much current through them causing overheating and shortening their life. Buy the best bike charger you can afford and always charge every 3-4 weeks when the bike is not being used.
If the stator is OK reconncet RR and 1. measure the battery V with the ignition off.
2. Start the engine and measure batt V, it should be higher that the 1st reading around 14V +- 0.2 V
3. Then measure the V on the green & red/white wires from the RR this should be the same as the V in step 2.
If its higher you may have a high resistance between the RR red/white and battery positive (check the main fuse in the starter relay left side under seat cowl) or a bad ground connection on RR or batt negative (look for corrosion).
If its lower you may have a short circuit between the red/white wire and ground.
If all of these check out OK then suspect the RR.
Never charge a sealed bike battery on a car charger, they push too much current through them causing overheating and shortening their life. Buy the best bike charger you can afford and always charge every 3-4 weeks when the bike is not being used.
