cct ? from a newbee
07-06-2008, 05:03 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 19
cct ? from a newbee
First off what an informative forum this is! I just picked up a 98 superhawk with 9000 miles. I started reading about the cct's and that at about 9000 miles they should be changed. My question is do these normally show any sign that they are going to let go? or is it bang complete engine failure. I wanted to get some miles on the bike this season and now I am wondering if I have to ship this thing off to the dealer for the change out. I appriciate the help in advance. Thanks Drew in CT
07-06-2008, 05:24 PM
#2
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 2,455
Opinions are widely varied on this subject. Most people who change them out have no signs of failure at all, just do so to be cautious. I've never heard of the manual ones causing any issues after they have been installed correctly. The stock ones are known to go bad though. About once a month someone will post a thread on here describing engine failure that was caused by stock CCT's. Most of these people had little or no warning.
I don't know about the send it off part though, if you have a little mechanical skill and can follow directions you can do this yourself in a day. It's actually kind of fun to tear the bike apart, teaches you a lot of things you would otherwise never know if you aren't real familiar with the inner workings of bikes.
I don't know about the send it off part though, if you have a little mechanical skill and can follow directions you can do this yourself in a day. It's actually kind of fun to tear the bike apart, teaches you a lot of things you would otherwise never know if you aren't real familiar with the inner workings of bikes.
to the forum joedirt5.
07-07-2008, 08:39 AM
#5
Greenmeansgo!
Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 199
Some more CCT questions
Maybe this should go in its own thread, but I'm trying to keep most CCT info together. I bought my 98 Superhawk in February of this year. The gauges have all been removed, but the title from when the last owner bought the bike showed ~8500 miles on it, and he estimated he'd put another 500 or so on it, so 9000 when I bought it. I estimate I've gotten it up to 13000.
It's giving a metallic clacking that seems to be synced with RPM, but I can't tell as it's hard to hear at speed/revs. Given the nature of the stock CCTs, I've decided that's the problem, and to replace them as soon as I can. Here are my questions:
1. I've heard that warming the bike on its sidestand wears out the CCTs sooner. Why is this? Does it only affect the stockers, or will the manual tensioners get worn out more quickly that way too? The last owner told me he didn't ride much (bad knees) but he would run it for 10 minutes a week, so if this is a cause, I'm sure that made it that much worse.
1b. Related: I use engine braking a lot when I ride. I've heard this also makes the CCTs wear out more quickly. Will this be a problem with the manual tensioners as well?
2. How do I tell when and how much to adjust the manual tensioners?
3. What tools will I need? The stickied guide seems very good, but it just says what to do, not what I'll need to do it. I've learned from experience how frustrating it is to get halfway into a job and not being able to proceed without spending an hour tracking down a tool from a shop. I only have basic ratchets, comb wrenches, screwdrivers, although a coworker has said he'll lend me his rearstand.
4. Anyone in the San Diego area who has done this want to help out some weekend in the next month or two?
It's giving a metallic clacking that seems to be synced with RPM, but I can't tell as it's hard to hear at speed/revs. Given the nature of the stock CCTs, I've decided that's the problem, and to replace them as soon as I can. Here are my questions:
1. I've heard that warming the bike on its sidestand wears out the CCTs sooner. Why is this? Does it only affect the stockers, or will the manual tensioners get worn out more quickly that way too? The last owner told me he didn't ride much (bad knees) but he would run it for 10 minutes a week, so if this is a cause, I'm sure that made it that much worse.
1b. Related: I use engine braking a lot when I ride. I've heard this also makes the CCTs wear out more quickly. Will this be a problem with the manual tensioners as well?
2. How do I tell when and how much to adjust the manual tensioners?
3. What tools will I need? The stickied guide seems very good, but it just says what to do, not what I'll need to do it. I've learned from experience how frustrating it is to get halfway into a job and not being able to proceed without spending an hour tracking down a tool from a shop. I only have basic ratchets, comb wrenches, screwdrivers, although a coworker has said he'll lend me his rearstand.
4. Anyone in the San Diego area who has done this want to help out some weekend in the next month or two?
07-07-2008, 09:58 AM
#6
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
Maybe this should go in its own thread, but I'm trying to keep most CCT info together. I bought my 98 Superhawk in February of this year. The gauges have all been removed, but the title from when the last owner bought the bike showed ~8500 miles on it, and he estimated he'd put another 500 or so on it, so 9000 when I bought it. I estimate I've gotten it up to 13000.
It's giving a metallic clacking that seems to be synced with RPM, but I can't tell as it's hard to hear at speed/revs. Given the nature of the stock CCTs, I've decided that's the problem, and to replace them as soon as I can. Here are my questions:
1. I've heard that warming the bike on its sidestand wears out the CCTs sooner. Why is this? Does it only affect the stockers, or will the manual tensioners get worn out more quickly that way too? The last owner told me he didn't ride much (bad knees) but he would run it for 10 minutes a week, so if this is a cause, I'm sure that made it that much worse.
1. I don't know about the side stand thing so I can't comment on it with any experience. I don't see how it would matter by putting any additional stress on the cams, cam chain, or tensioners in the big scheme of things...or really at all.
1b. Related: I use engine braking a lot when I ride. I've heard this also makes the CCTs wear out more quickly. Will this be a problem with the manual tensioners as well?
1b. The thing about manual tensioners is that they won't (or shouldn't) back out. The stock CCT has a tendancy to be too weak over time and can completely fail on you with little to no warning. Engine braking does cause the cam chain to have more tension on it than say at idle so I can see how that could affect the longevity of a stock 'automatic' CCT. More wear on it. You shouldn't have a 'problem' with a manual CCT so long as you understand it's not a 'set it and forget it' kind of thing. You will have to adjust it after so many miles, or whenever you hear the tel-tale sound of the cam chain flopping a little. This is the same thing the 'automatic' stock CCT does. You just won't have to worry about it (manual CCT) failing or backing out on you like you do with the stock.
2. How do I tell when and how much to adjust the manual tensioners?
2. It should be described on the manual CCT you purchase. I think the APE unit calls for 'finger right' then back off 1/4 turn, then check for play tolerances. I found that pretty vague as what is 'finger tight' to me might not be to someone else with say, gorilla hands. I got it as snug as I could and backed it out almost 1/4 turn. Also had the cam cover off while doing this so I could see exactly how much play I had and if I was within spec.
3. What tools will I need? The stickied guide seems very good, but it just says what to do, not what I'll need to do it. I've learned from experience how frustrating it is to get halfway into a job and not being able to proceed without spending an hour tracking down a tool from a shop. I only have basic ratchets, comb wrenches, screwdrivers, although a coworker has said he'll lend me his rearstand.
3. Basic tools is all you need. no specialty tools requirred. The biggest thing I've found you MUST do IMHO is to remove the cam cover before you begin to loosen or replace the CCT. Nothing like jumping a few teeth and then having to backtrack to get back to the correct timing. See my CCT/APE thread for reference hahaha. Learn from others mistakes or mishaps
It's giving a metallic clacking that seems to be synced with RPM, but I can't tell as it's hard to hear at speed/revs. Given the nature of the stock CCTs, I've decided that's the problem, and to replace them as soon as I can. Here are my questions:
1. I've heard that warming the bike on its sidestand wears out the CCTs sooner. Why is this? Does it only affect the stockers, or will the manual tensioners get worn out more quickly that way too? The last owner told me he didn't ride much (bad knees) but he would run it for 10 minutes a week, so if this is a cause, I'm sure that made it that much worse.
1. I don't know about the side stand thing so I can't comment on it with any experience. I don't see how it would matter by putting any additional stress on the cams, cam chain, or tensioners in the big scheme of things...or really at all.
1b. Related: I use engine braking a lot when I ride. I've heard this also makes the CCTs wear out more quickly. Will this be a problem with the manual tensioners as well?
1b. The thing about manual tensioners is that they won't (or shouldn't) back out. The stock CCT has a tendancy to be too weak over time and can completely fail on you with little to no warning. Engine braking does cause the cam chain to have more tension on it than say at idle so I can see how that could affect the longevity of a stock 'automatic' CCT. More wear on it. You shouldn't have a 'problem' with a manual CCT so long as you understand it's not a 'set it and forget it' kind of thing. You will have to adjust it after so many miles, or whenever you hear the tel-tale sound of the cam chain flopping a little. This is the same thing the 'automatic' stock CCT does. You just won't have to worry about it (manual CCT) failing or backing out on you like you do with the stock.
2. How do I tell when and how much to adjust the manual tensioners?
2. It should be described on the manual CCT you purchase. I think the APE unit calls for 'finger right' then back off 1/4 turn, then check for play tolerances. I found that pretty vague as what is 'finger tight' to me might not be to someone else with say, gorilla hands. I got it as snug as I could and backed it out almost 1/4 turn. Also had the cam cover off while doing this so I could see exactly how much play I had and if I was within spec.
3. What tools will I need? The stickied guide seems very good, but it just says what to do, not what I'll need to do it. I've learned from experience how frustrating it is to get halfway into a job and not being able to proceed without spending an hour tracking down a tool from a shop. I only have basic ratchets, comb wrenches, screwdrivers, although a coworker has said he'll lend me his rearstand.
3. Basic tools is all you need. no specialty tools requirred. The biggest thing I've found you MUST do IMHO is to remove the cam cover before you begin to loosen or replace the CCT. Nothing like jumping a few teeth and then having to backtrack to get back to the correct timing. See my CCT/APE thread for reference hahaha. Learn from others mistakes or mishaps
I replied what I could in blue
07-08-2008, 04:57 PM
#8
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 19
Ok After all I have read here I have decided to go ahead and change the cct's. I appriciate the step by step directions on this web site but I am not willing to have a potential problem that can destroy my motor. Better off in the hands of a professional, in my opinion. Now I call my local Honda dealer and they said 1/2hr to 1hr each to change. To me this sounds way to quick. Do you guys agree this could be a 1/2hr job or is the service manager possibly confused or misunderstood me. Thanks Drew
07-08-2008, 05:09 PM
#9
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
A two hour job sounds reaosnable for people who do it day in and day out I suppose. Then again it took me a couple of hours just for ONE LOL, but that's because I ran into some snags along the way. I could see it being a 30 minute job if it were an inline.
07-08-2008, 05:29 PM
#10
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 2,455
I'm pretty sure I could do the whole thing in an hour if everything went right, but that's only because I've done it before and learned what to do and what not to do. I wouldn't have to remove to valve covers, but I highly recommend doing that for someone who isn't intimately familiar with what's going on inside. That's the hardest part of the job, because you have to take off the front fairing and move the oil cooler out of the way to get the front cover off.
The most important step is making sure the lobes on the cams are up. If they are down even a little pressure will still be on the cam chain and it will skip when you loosen the CCT. If the lobes are up it shouldn't move at all, but people have suggested a ziptie just incase and I think that couldn't hurt.
The most important step is making sure the lobes on the cams are up. If they are down even a little pressure will still be on the cam chain and it will skip when you loosen the CCT. If the lobes are up it shouldn't move at all, but people have suggested a ziptie just incase and I think that couldn't hurt.
Last edited by drew_c14; 07-08-2008 at 05:32 PM.
07-09-2008, 04:04 AM
#11
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
Yeah the zip tie thingy is a must but the PITA of removing the front valve cover will lenghten the job by a lot.
I would remove the front plug, try to get a finger in there to feel the compression, turn the engine counter clockwise from the stator cover until I feel the compression, and make sure you align the FT mark LESS THAN 1/2 TURN LATER and you will be set at TDC on the fire stroke with no lobes touching the cam so it will stand still.
For the rear, the valve cover is soo easy to access that the tie wrap thing is a must.
But if the valves are due for a check, this will be a hell of a good time to check them to access the front CCT and remove the dreaded front valve cover only once...
I have a 2004 with 42 000 km and the CCT's are stock, I still hope they give way so I have a good reason to rebuild the engine my way
I would remove the front plug, try to get a finger in there to feel the compression, turn the engine counter clockwise from the stator cover until I feel the compression, and make sure you align the FT mark LESS THAN 1/2 TURN LATER and you will be set at TDC on the fire stroke with no lobes touching the cam so it will stand still.
For the rear, the valve cover is soo easy to access that the tie wrap thing is a must.
But if the valves are due for a check, this will be a hell of a good time to check them to access the front CCT and remove the dreaded front valve cover only once...
I have a 2004 with 42 000 km and the CCT's are stock, I still hope they give way so I have a good reason to rebuild the engine my way
Last edited by gboezio; 07-09-2008 at 04:07 AM.
07-10-2008, 08:38 PM
#12
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, South of Heaven
Posts: 342
Today after getting home from work, I was listening to the engine and I found a tic-tic-tic sound coming from the rear cylinder near the CCT. I don't think it was there before. An early sign of CCT going out?
This thread has awaken my CCT paranoia.
I'm going to do the APE swap. But should I keep riding untill I get the parts?
This thread has awaken my CCT paranoia.
I'm going to do the APE swap. But should I keep riding untill I get the parts?
07-16-2008, 04:25 PM
#16
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 2,455
As long as you haven't put the bike back together and tried to start it your fine. Just loosen up the bolt holding the cams in and re time them according to the manual. If you need better instructions PM me with details and I'll help.
07-16-2008, 06:16 PM
#17
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SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
Remove the valve cover and the chain guide, set the crank at TDC on the fire stroke, slack the CCT, withs CCT fully retracted, you may be able pull a link, engage it on the sprocket, then push the extra link all around the sprocket with your finger, you advanced one link repeat as needed.
Front or back ??
You need to be on the fire stroke at TDC to loosen the CCT's otherwise a valve spring will try to rotate the cam and the chain will skip.
Front or back ??
You need to be on the fire stroke at TDC to loosen the CCT's otherwise a valve spring will try to rotate the cam and the chain will skip.
