RE fire arm for sale
01-07-2010, 05:47 AM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 14
RE fire arm for sale
Hawxter996 has posted an ad for a firearm in the Classifieds. IMO, this shouldn't be allowed. This is a forum for Superhawks. If I were in the market for a refrigerator or a couch, I would look elsewhere: If it's not a Superhawk or something related, I wouldn't want it and I wouldn't expect it in the Superhawkforum Classifieds. A firearm isn't a fridge and it isn't a couch, but the same applies.
01-07-2010, 05:50 AM
#2
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 310
i disagree, he has a superhawk, has been a longtime member and presented the ad correctly. i see nothing wrong with it.
01-07-2010, 05:54 AM
#3
mildly retarded
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,278
You should try living in the U.S. It can be quite liberating.
01-07-2010, 06:32 AM
#4
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
+1. If you actually took the time to read the post he's selling that INSTEAD of having to sell off his superhawk. Hard times for lots of us...he can sell an F-4 Phantom on here for all I care. And who asked you anyway? Did the post really put that much of a dent in your day while you were searching for things superhawk related? Cut him a little slack I'm sure he'd rather not have to part with it.
Last edited by captainchaos; 01-07-2010 at 06:52 AM.
01-07-2010, 06:40 AM
#5
Member
Squid
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Essex, uk
Posts: 44
It is strange to some outside the USA that it is seen as a right to 'bear arms'. The argument about defending your estate is also relevant in the UK. More recently than the example given regarding the Dunblane massacre and Micheal Ryan (the UK two worst gun crimes which haven't happened again since the gun ban and seem to happen every few months in the US) is a recent court case where a chap retaliated to having his house robbed and family threatened where his brother and himself found the chap and beat him up with cricket bat. He got 7 years for unecessary force.
If you allow people more 'rights' to defend their estate, it won't lower the crime rate, it means that the criminals will then use more force, be tooled up or simply not run away when disturbed. Result = more fatalities.
There are laws in the UK that already give the home owner the right to defend their estate, and I believe it's as close to perfect as it is. The UK has a low crime rate, probably not as low as Norway, (which is a very liberal country BTW).
Selling the gun is fair enough, IMHO it's just strange to see a tool that is purely designed to kill being openly traded. This is a US site after all, so international visitors have to accept this, in addition to the frequent abuse that is dished out to posters, (often Newbies).
Let's not worry about the Gun, I want to see his finished VTR!
If you allow people more 'rights' to defend their estate, it won't lower the crime rate, it means that the criminals will then use more force, be tooled up or simply not run away when disturbed. Result = more fatalities.
There are laws in the UK that already give the home owner the right to defend their estate, and I believe it's as close to perfect as it is. The UK has a low crime rate, probably not as low as Norway, (which is a very liberal country BTW).
Selling the gun is fair enough, IMHO it's just strange to see a tool that is purely designed to kill being openly traded. This is a US site after all, so international visitors have to accept this, in addition to the frequent abuse that is dished out to posters, (often Newbies).
Let's not worry about the Gun, I want to see his finished VTR!
01-07-2010, 07:09 AM
#7
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,051
It is strange to some outside the USA that it is seen as a right to 'bear arms'. The argument about defending your estate is also relevant in the UK. More recently than the example given regarding the Dunblane massacre and Micheal Ryan (the UK two worst gun crimes which haven't happened again since the gun ban and seem to happen every few months in the US) is a recent court case where a chap retaliated to having his house robbed and family threatened where his brother and himself found the chap and beat him up with cricket bat. He got 7 years for unecessary force.
If you allow people more 'rights' to defend their estate, it won't lower the crime rate, it means that the criminals will then use more force, be tooled up or simply not run away when disturbed. Result = more fatalities.
There are laws in the UK that already give the home owner the right to defend their estate, and I believe it's as close to perfect as it is. The UK has a low crime rate, probably not as low as Norway, (which is a very liberal country BTW).
Selling the gun is fair enough, IMHO it's just strange to see a tool that is purely designed to kill being openly traded. This is a US site after all, so international visitors have to accept this, in addition to the frequent abuse that is dished out to posters, (often Newbies).
Let's not worry about the Gun, I want to see his finished VTR!
If you allow people more 'rights' to defend their estate, it won't lower the crime rate, it means that the criminals will then use more force, be tooled up or simply not run away when disturbed. Result = more fatalities.
There are laws in the UK that already give the home owner the right to defend their estate, and I believe it's as close to perfect as it is. The UK has a low crime rate, probably not as low as Norway, (which is a very liberal country BTW).
Selling the gun is fair enough, IMHO it's just strange to see a tool that is purely designed to kill being openly traded. This is a US site after all, so international visitors have to accept this, in addition to the frequent abuse that is dished out to posters, (often Newbies).
Let's not worry about the Gun, I want to see his finished VTR!
tim
01-07-2010, 07:26 AM
#8
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 156
Low uk crime rate? I lol'd
01-07-2010, 07:42 AM
#9
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
eg: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=21159 and https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=21163
As long as he follows the posting rules, and all appropriate laws when he sells it, this is totally fine.
01-07-2010, 07:44 AM
#10
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
The ends do not justify the means. That means we do not adjust or change an inalienble right just to help change an outcome. We could imprison the entire population and that would likely reduce gun crime too. For us, infringment of our rights is not acceptable.
Freedom comes with a price. We are willing to pay that price here.
01-07-2010, 08:05 AM
#11
Wrench Bender
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 96
The "difference in opinion" between the "States" and UK is now some 234 years old. I don't think we will solve it here.
For those of you on this side of the pond, make sure your representatives in our great government know that this is your very, very strong opinion. They have to understand that they can represent our views over the special interest views or they can be replaced.
For those of you on this side of the pond, make sure your representatives in our great government know that this is your very, very strong opinion. They have to understand that they can represent our views over the special interest views or they can be replaced.
01-07-2010, 08:14 AM
#12
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 232
So, I'm a bit confused...Is this thread about whether firearms or other non-motorcycle related stuff can and should be sold on this forum, the age old argument of gun ownership or dubious crime rate statistics?
My .02----for what is worth…..
1. Yeah, sell whatcha can and whatcha want, as long as the forum rules are followed and there is an interest in the item being sold.
2. "Right to Bear Arms" - To what degree and what it really means? What guns are included, excluded or more dangerous than the other? Not sure if everyone will agree to one singular interpretation…….
3. Crime rate statistics - Can be "spun" in any direction needed to support an argument.
My .02----for what is worth…..
1. Yeah, sell whatcha can and whatcha want, as long as the forum rules are followed and there is an interest in the item being sold.
2. "Right to Bear Arms" - To what degree and what it really means? What guns are included, excluded or more dangerous than the other? Not sure if everyone will agree to one singular interpretation…….
3. Crime rate statistics - Can be "spun" in any direction needed to support an argument.
01-07-2010, 09:00 AM
#13
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
So, I'm a bit confused...Is this thread about whether firearms or other non-motorcycle related stuff can and should be sold on this forum, the age old argument of gun ownership or dubious crime rate statistics?
My .02----for what is worth…..
1. Yeah, sell whatcha can and whatcha want, as long as the forum rules are followed and there is an interest in the item being sold.
2. "Right to Bear Arms" - To what degree and what it really means? What guns are included, excluded or more dangerous than the other? Not sure if everyone will agree to one singular interpretation…….
3. Crime rate statistics - Can be "spun" in any direction needed to support an argument.
My .02----for what is worth…..
1. Yeah, sell whatcha can and whatcha want, as long as the forum rules are followed and there is an interest in the item being sold.
2. "Right to Bear Arms" - To what degree and what it really means? What guns are included, excluded or more dangerous than the other? Not sure if everyone will agree to one singular interpretation…….
3. Crime rate statistics - Can be "spun" in any direction needed to support an argument.
Yeah, seing an add for guns for sale is odd to me too, but I'm kind of used to odd around here now...
As long as both parties follow applicable laws I have no objections to it at all...As for the defention of your "rights"... Well first of, there are as many defentions as there are americans, so you should probably work that out internally before trying to impress your way of thinking on anyone else...
As for statistic's, a Maths professor I once had basicly told us that with statistics you could prove anything from perpetual motion to the existance of intelligent life in the universe... And proceeded to prove his point...
Last edited by Tweety; 01-07-2010 at 09:03 AM.
01-07-2010, 09:05 AM
#14
ride it out
SuperSport
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 745
some states you only need a bill of sale to sell it to another person, whereas buying it you only need proof of residence. kinda like a bike, i didn't see anything wrong with the ad when i read it yesterday just passed over because i was not in the market, easy enough.
i wouldnt want someone on here to be like, "oh, i was gonna sell my '67 lincoln on here for dirt cheap close to nothing, but it was a superhawk forum?!?!?"
i wouldnt want someone on here to be like, "oh, i was gonna sell my '67 lincoln on here for dirt cheap close to nothing, but it was a superhawk forum?!?!?"
01-07-2010, 09:15 AM
#15
ole dirty bastard
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my house
Posts: 975
Greg Nemish
gave me his blessing...enough said.
thanks gents!....guess some panties got twisted!
gave me his blessing...enough said.
thanks gents!....guess some panties got twisted!
01-07-2010, 09:27 AM
#16
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
And there in lies your misunderstanding. Our founders recognized "rights" as being inalienable - not "allowed" by the state. Our Bill of rights and subsequent amendments add an additional level of detail to our inalienable rights - that is all.
The ends do not justify the means. That means we do not adjust or change an inalienble right just to help change an outcome. We could imprison the entire population and that would likely reduce gun crime too. For us, infringment of our rights is not acceptable.
Freedom comes with a price. We are willing to pay that price here.
The ends do not justify the means. That means we do not adjust or change an inalienble right just to help change an outcome. We could imprison the entire population and that would likely reduce gun crime too. For us, infringment of our rights is not acceptable.
Freedom comes with a price. We are willing to pay that price here.
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are. And more equal in terms of gender as well, despite a great many obstacles, both löegal and religious... Now I'm not saying there aren't faults... In fact most countries have lift of faults as long as my arm... My own being no exception...
No american in this lifetime has "Pay'd the price" for the freedom ecpect the vets from WW2... All the rest has been doing a service for their country, I'm not in any way disputing that, but it's a country that is getting more and more corrupt, greedy and in need of an attitude adjustment... The rest of the "wars on whatever we want to!" is just the US projecting it's will on the rest of the world... Not defending it's freedom in any way... The schoolyard bully beating people up to keep them subjugated isn't "defending freedom"... It's being a bully...
And the US zealots still spew rethoric and continue on with the blinders on... So since you have the right to consider yourself above the rest of us (We can argue this point for as long as you wan't... But that is the image you are project with the wholier than you attitude and quotes of rethoric in that posting), what have you sacrificed in the name of "Freedom" lately? I'm genuinely interested to know...
The US once was "great", and it's pure ideals still are... But under current, and past management you are on the fast track to becoming a third world country yourself...
So get your *** of the couch, and fix your country first. Before you go waving that flag too high...
01-07-2010, 09:32 AM
#17
ride it out
SuperSport
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 745
Um... Pardon me, but at this very moment you use the same old tired rethoric that americans have been spewing for ages...
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are. And more equal in terms of gender as well, despite a great many obstacles, both löegal and religious... Now I'm not saying there aren't faults... In fact most countries have lift of faults as long as my arm... My own being no exception...
No american in this lifetime has "Pay'd the price" for the freedom ecpect the vets from WW2... All the rest has been doing a service for their country, I'm not in any way disputing that, but it's a country that is getting more and more corrupt, greedy and in need of an attitude adjustment... The rest of the "wars on whatever we want to!" is just the US projecting it's will on the rest of the world... Not defending it's freedom in any way... The schoolyard bully beating people up to keep them subjugated isn't "defending freedom"... It's being a bully...
And the US zealots still spew rethoric and continue on with the blinders on... So since you have the right to consider yourself above the rest of us (We can argue this point for as long as you wan't... But that is the image you are project with the wholier than you attitude and quotes of rethoric in that posting), what have you sacrificed in the name of "Freedom" lately? I'm genuinely interested to know...
The US once was "great", and it's pure ideals still are... But under current, and past management you are on the fast track to becoming a third world country yourself...
So get your *** of the couch, and fix your country first. Before you go waving that flag too high...
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are. And more equal in terms of gender as well, despite a great many obstacles, both löegal and religious... Now I'm not saying there aren't faults... In fact most countries have lift of faults as long as my arm... My own being no exception...
No american in this lifetime has "Pay'd the price" for the freedom ecpect the vets from WW2... All the rest has been doing a service for their country, I'm not in any way disputing that, but it's a country that is getting more and more corrupt, greedy and in need of an attitude adjustment... The rest of the "wars on whatever we want to!" is just the US projecting it's will on the rest of the world... Not defending it's freedom in any way... The schoolyard bully beating people up to keep them subjugated isn't "defending freedom"... It's being a bully...
And the US zealots still spew rethoric and continue on with the blinders on... So since you have the right to consider yourself above the rest of us (We can argue this point for as long as you wan't... But that is the image you are project with the wholier than you attitude and quotes of rethoric in that posting), what have you sacrificed in the name of "Freedom" lately? I'm genuinely interested to know...
The US once was "great", and it's pure ideals still are... But under current, and past management you are on the fast track to becoming a third world country yourself...
So get your *** of the couch, and fix your country first. Before you go waving that flag too high...
01-07-2010, 09:34 AM
#18
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 267
i also see nothing wrong with it, if you don't want it or don't even have interest in it why even bother to open the thread
p.s. i have a dryer for sale i might have to post that baby up here
p.s. i have a dryer for sale i might have to post that baby up here
01-07-2010, 10:07 AM
#19
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
Anyone got an apartment sized Frig?
Tweety - Rhetoric? Hmmm... Seems like the only portion of my post that could be considered rhetoric would be the last sentence. Is that what got to you?
Assuming so, lets look at it. "we are willing to pay the price here"
Does that mean war to you????
Must be as you jumped immediately to WWII. Didn't realize the Sweden and/or its citizents were so martial.
No Tweety my point was not any wars we may be/have been involved in, my point was the US domestic situation. Tons of various examples but since we are discussing gun ownership lets look at that. The price we pay for private gun ownership is having "bad people" have greater access to guns.
Pretty simple concept.
The price we pay for any freedom is the possibility of another person "hurting" us. Do we all agree? of course not. Holier than thou? (not me, not by a long shot) Not sure if you have a chip on your shoulder, but all I was saying is that freedom cost - and usually it costs in reduced security. Part of the reason the "Homeland security act" is so contentious here.
Third word contries are our enemies? Not quite - they are our potential new markets (no I'm not talking about arms...)
So perhaps it time you got off YOUR rhetoric
Tweety - Rhetoric? Hmmm... Seems like the only portion of my post that could be considered rhetoric would be the last sentence. Is that what got to you?
Assuming so, lets look at it. "we are willing to pay the price here"
Does that mean war to you????
Must be as you jumped immediately to WWII. Didn't realize the Sweden and/or its citizents were so martial.
No Tweety my point was not any wars we may be/have been involved in, my point was the US domestic situation. Tons of various examples but since we are discussing gun ownership lets look at that. The price we pay for private gun ownership is having "bad people" have greater access to guns.
Pretty simple concept.
The price we pay for any freedom is the possibility of another person "hurting" us. Do we all agree? of course not. Holier than thou? (not me, not by a long shot
) Not sure if you have a chip on your shoulder, but all I was saying is that freedom cost - and usually it costs in reduced security. Part of the reason the "Homeland security act" is so contentious here.Third word contries are our enemies? Not quite - they are our potential new markets (no I'm not talking about arms...)
So perhaps it time you got off YOUR rhetoric
01-07-2010, 10:12 AM
#20
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,802
Um... Pardon me, but at this very moment you use the same old tired rethoric that americans have been spewing for ages...
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are. And more equal in terms of gender as well, despite a great many obstacles, both löegal and religious... Now I'm not saying there aren't faults... In fact most countries have lift of faults as long as my arm... My own being no exception...
No american in this lifetime has "Pay'd the price" for the freedom ecpect the vets from WW2... All the rest has been doing a service for their country, I'm not in any way disputing that, but it's a country that is getting more and more corrupt, greedy and in need of an attitude adjustment... The rest of the "wars on whatever we want to!" is just the US projecting it's will on the rest of the world... Not defending it's freedom in any way... The schoolyard bully beating people up to keep them subjugated isn't "defending freedom"... It's being a bully...
And the US zealots still spew rethoric and continue on with the blinders on... So since you have the right to consider yourself above the rest of us (We can argue this point for as long as you wan't... But that is the image you are project with the wholier than you attitude and quotes of rethoric in that posting), what have you sacrificed in the name of "Freedom" lately? I'm genuinely interested to know...
The US once was "great", and it's pure ideals still are... But under current, and past management you are on the fast track to becoming a third world country yourself...
So get your *** of the couch, and fix your country first. Before you go waving that flag too high...
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are. And more equal in terms of gender as well, despite a great many obstacles, both löegal and religious... Now I'm not saying there aren't faults... In fact most countries have lift of faults as long as my arm... My own being no exception...
No american in this lifetime has "Pay'd the price" for the freedom ecpect the vets from WW2... All the rest has been doing a service for their country, I'm not in any way disputing that, but it's a country that is getting more and more corrupt, greedy and in need of an attitude adjustment... The rest of the "wars on whatever we want to!" is just the US projecting it's will on the rest of the world... Not defending it's freedom in any way... The schoolyard bully beating people up to keep them subjugated isn't "defending freedom"... It's being a bully...
And the US zealots still spew rethoric and continue on with the blinders on... So since you have the right to consider yourself above the rest of us (We can argue this point for as long as you wan't... But that is the image you are project with the wholier than you attitude and quotes of rethoric in that posting), what have you sacrificed in the name of "Freedom" lately? I'm genuinely interested to know...
The US once was "great", and it's pure ideals still are... But under current, and past management you are on the fast track to becoming a third world country yourself...
So get your *** of the couch, and fix your country first. Before you go waving that flag too high...
I don't disagree with this; the US is in many ways less free than some socialist or even communist countries. The New World Order is coming after all of us, and the US is no exception. The word 'world' isn't in the phrase for nothing.
The original poster is a ninny, though. If it's legal to do and it's an individual's personal property and it has been OK'd by the forum admin, what does it concern anyone if it's for sale in the classifieds?
01-07-2010, 10:20 AM
#21
ole dirty bastard
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my house
Posts: 975
I don't disagree with this; the US is in many ways less free than some socialist or even communist countries. The New World Order is coming after all of us, and the US is no exception. The word 'world' isn't in the phrase for nothing.
The original poster is a ninny, though. If it's legal to do and it's an individual's personal property and it has been OK'd by the forum admin, what does it concern anyone if it's for sale in the classifieds?
The original poster is a ninny, though. If it's legal to do and it's an individual's personal property and it has been OK'd by the forum admin, what does it concern anyone if it's for sale in the classifieds?
so you wanna buy a rifle?........lol!
I opened a can of worms here, didnt I?
01-07-2010, 10:27 AM
#22
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,802
01-07-2010, 10:57 AM
#23
Junior Member
Squid
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 14
I've just come back from an offroad forum I visit regularly. In the classifieds there are separate sub-forums for "offroad vehicles", "offroad stuff" and "off-topic stuff". Not so dumb ...
01-07-2010, 11:13 AM
#24
ole dirty bastard
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my house
Posts: 975
there is nothing wrong with my ad,if you dont want to buy it.....simply dont.
01-07-2010, 11:16 AM
#25
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Anyone got an apartment sized Frig?
Tweety - Rhetoric? Hmmm... Seems like the only portion of my post that could be considered rhetoric would be the last sentence. Is that what got to you?
Assuming so, lets look at it. "we are willing to pay the price here"
Does that mean war to you????
Must be as you jumped immediately to WWII. Didn't realize the Sweden and/or its citizents were so martial.
No Tweety my point was not any wars we may be/have been involved in, my point was the US domestic situation. Tons of various examples but since we are discussing gun ownership lets look at that. The price we pay for private gun ownership is having "bad people" have greater access to guns.
Pretty simple concept.
The price we pay for any freedom is the possibility of another person "hurting" us. Do we all agree? of course not. Holier than thou? (not me, not by a long shot) Not sure if you have a chip on your shoulder, but all I was saying is that freedom cost - and usually it costs in reduced security. Part of the reason the "Homeland security act" is so contentious here.
Third word contries are our enemies? Not quite - they are our potential new markets (no I'm not talking about arms...)
So perhaps it time you got off YOUR rhetoric
Tweety - Rhetoric? Hmmm... Seems like the only portion of my post that could be considered rhetoric would be the last sentence. Is that what got to you?
Assuming so, lets look at it. "we are willing to pay the price here"
Does that mean war to you????
Must be as you jumped immediately to WWII. Didn't realize the Sweden and/or its citizents were so martial.
No Tweety my point was not any wars we may be/have been involved in, my point was the US domestic situation. Tons of various examples but since we are discussing gun ownership lets look at that. The price we pay for private gun ownership is having "bad people" have greater access to guns.
Pretty simple concept.
The price we pay for any freedom is the possibility of another person "hurting" us. Do we all agree? of course not. Holier than thou? (not me, not by a long shot
) Not sure if you have a chip on your shoulder, but all I was saying is that freedom cost - and usually it costs in reduced security. Part of the reason the "Homeland security act" is so contentious here.Third word contries are our enemies? Not quite - they are our potential new markets (no I'm not talking about arms...)
So perhaps it time you got off YOUR rhetoric
Take a few steps back, look at your own post back up there and honestly tell me you where not projecting a "wholier than thou" attitude... If you can do that... Well I'm not going to argue with you, becuase it's pointless... If you have enough self distance to see the point I'm trying to make... well keep reading...
The reference to wars, well, sorry... That was me assuming it would find a way into the topic, so I wanted to get it out of the way... (It has in all the other discussions...
)The topic here is gun ownership... And the difference between american society vs the rest...
You have as you stated an "inalianable right" to bear arms... Does that mean that the US have more arms than most other countries?
No, not really... Does it mean the US have more available weapons than most countries... No, not really... Does it mean the US have a larger percentage of handguns or assaultguns than most other countries... Yes, definetly... And doeas it mean there are more nutcases defending their right to bear arms? Hell, yeah... You guys have a veritable army of them... Not sure how effective it would be in combat though as m,ost of them don't get along well with others (or themselves)
A few facts for you... I have access to more actual weapons in pure numbers than the average american... Without "an inaliable right"... the only difference is that they are registered (In a system that actually works!), and none of them are automatic... They are all with the exception of two pure hunting tools, but can easily be used to kill or maim someone... Ie the burgler in my home... They can however not be succesfully used hidden under my coat as I try to rob the local gas station... Even the dumbest cop would know how to spot someone running from the scene with a hunting rifle ...
I'm pretty sure the average Norwegian has a few hunting rifles close at hand too... The Fin's a different topic altogether, they have access to more Soviet war material from way back when than Russia probably...
Still, these societies have far less gun related crimes than both the US and the UK... It would probably be a good idea to ponder why...
Gun's aren't the problem... Gun owners are... By not registering guns (Oh don't get me started, the US system is worse than a joke...) you allow the badguys access, and you have far to many weapons floating around unaccounted for, or in the hands of poeple more suited to straight jackets and meds... The US as a whole choose "Freedom" (note the big "F") as opposed to being smart... Having a working government with a set of reasonable laws that protect you instead of taking away freedom can actually provide it... If you instead indoctrinate a people to believe all laws and all government is bad, pure and simple... Then you get a people fighting to be "Free" instead of accepting reasonable gun control laws and continuing on with their normal lives, keeping most of their guns, but prohibiting the decidedly wrong people from having guns...
Oh... And nope... I'm not going to quit my rethoric... I consider it my duty to trample a few all american toes now and then... You all need the contrasting information...
And sorry if you felt singeled out...
I have nothing against you, infact several other posts you have made show you to be fairly level headed... Most of the time...
01-07-2010, 11:44 AM
#26
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fresno, Ca
Posts: 224
How many people are there in Sweden, Norway, and Finland combined? I am guessing a very small fraction of those in the US. It would be much easier to have a better "system" in place if we had fewer people. The thing that many outsiders don't understand is that our fore-fathers wanted the people of the US to be able to defend themselves from Government Militias.
Gun crimes are the accepted cost of freedom to own guns. The debate can go many directions and everyone has their theories on what the best way is. To each his own.
Tweety, I appreciate your opinion on our country, and while it would be easy to get defensive; there are probably a few true statements in there. I would love to see our country bring all of its troops home and focus on our own economy. But its the darndest thing, if we try to keep our nose to ourselves, some small country will come out of the woodwork asking for our help. And as bad as our country may seem to you, there are more people moving in everyday than there are moving out.
And don't forget, most (if not all) of your hunting rifles were originally developed for combat purposes.
Gun crimes are the accepted cost of freedom to own guns. The debate can go many directions and everyone has their theories on what the best way is. To each his own.
Tweety, I appreciate your opinion on our country, and while it would be easy to get defensive; there are probably a few true statements in there. I would love to see our country bring all of its troops home and focus on our own economy. But its the darndest thing, if we try to keep our nose to ourselves, some small country will come out of the woodwork asking for our help. And as bad as our country may seem to you, there are more people moving in everyday than there are moving out.
And don't forget, most (if not all) of your hunting rifles were originally developed for combat purposes.
Last edited by fundgh; 01-07-2010 at 11:47 AM.
01-07-2010, 11:48 AM
#27
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 284
hawxtr996, if I dind't already have 2 of them I'd but it! Good luck Frank
01-07-2010, 12:34 PM
#28
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
I would venture to say that more US Citizens paid to the price of their lives to protect the freedoms of those in other countries, more so than to protect our homeland, since the majority of the war was fought in Europe. They helped protect a morale freedom.
As for what have I sacrificed in the name of "Freedom"? My time with my family and friends, some of my personal liberties. Conversely, I believe I would have made the choice to serve in my countries Navy, regardless of what country I was from. More than one of us on here has sacrificed something in the name of "Freedom" or Freedom for others by serving in our Armed Forces. It's a source of pride for me, that's why I felt the need to answer.
01-07-2010, 12:51 PM
#29
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
You and I are really not far apart - and you are correct about the licensing laws, except it is worse than you can imagine. Laws are not only different from state to state, the administration of those laws is different from county to county. I have a pistol permit that I originally obtained in Schenectady county, NY. This permit required NO training. To get a hunting license at least requires a short safety course.
The other side of this was that it took over 6 months to get.
So basically the gun control groups add time to maker it difficult and the gun lobby eliminate having to take a course or a mandate training. What you end up with is rediculous.
But, Tweety, they are our rediculous laws and we get a bit defensive when others point it out to us
01-07-2010, 12:56 PM
#30
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
Um... Pardon me, but at this very moment you use the same old tired rethoric that americans have been spewing for ages...
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are.
Land of the free!? Yeah, right... I have more than once been a visitor to your "great" country, and the only place in the world that has more rules, laws or regulations is Japan...
It would probably surprise you to find that in most regards, the people in "third world" countries, the one's you fill you media with as the "great enemy" are in the day to day life less restricted by rules than you guys are.
Second only to Japan?
Guess you haven't been to the U.K. lately.
I don't care about the 'third world" and would leave it to its own devices, but if it's so free and wonderful, why are half the poor bastards who live in it trying to sneak into my country?
Sometime between now and the imposition of Sharia law, a lot of Western Euro-Wheenies are gonna wish they could have purchased arms and ammo as easily as Americans.
