Daytona 200: more pace car follies (possible spoilers)
03-07-2009, 04:09 PM
#1
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Daytona 200: more pace car follies (possible spoilers)
What is up with the AMA at Daytona? This years race was another embarassing example of the AMA's ability to screw up a perfectly good race by using a pace car. Bad enough to take away Josh Hayes's hard earned 6 second lead, they then bottleneck all the bikes and actually cause an accident leading to a red flag. Josh Hayes quote: I guess the safety car wasn't very safe(!), then they wave Bostrom by the pacecar before the restart putting the P-1 rider at the back of the pack..ummm now what do we do? Umm..wave everyone else by except for Ben...phew! (should have done that to Miguel Duhamel a few years ago). Ridiculous to watch but they finally got it straight. So now a 200 mile race is reduced to a 6 lap sprint with everyone on cold tires.
Welcome to 2 wheeled NASCAR - what a joke!
Welcome to 2 wheeled NASCAR - what a joke!
Last edited by jbaxx; 03-10-2009 at 11:25 AM.
03-07-2009, 04:54 PM
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Freddie Spencer coined a stupid line. "If they wave Ben to the front then it's all okay." Uhmmm,......no. He'll have run a lap more than anybody else there dumbass.
So to fix it they wave everybody else by. Then they let them do a rolling restart while Ben is the only one with cold tires. Sweet.
So to fix it they wave everybody else by. Then they let them do a rolling restart while Ben is the only one with cold tires. Sweet.
03-07-2009, 05:31 PM
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03-07-2009, 08:43 PM
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03-08-2009, 09:50 AM
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Josh's wife Melissa finished 21st IIRC. Pretty good for her first pro race, (though she has a lot of racing experience). And she can talk trash that she finished ahead of Josh too! haha
03-08-2009, 02:34 PM
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Yeah, I thought they might have been black-flagged with the right side fairing falling off. That coulda been scary if it broke off and someone hit it at 170.
And the whole zip-ties and duct tape "fix" was priceless.
And the whole zip-ties and duct tape "fix" was priceless.
03-08-2009, 03:15 PM
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Especially since the rider had to finally get pissed, get off the bike and grab the duct tape while the mechanics were trying to zip tie a fairing/radiator on.
03-08-2009, 04:04 PM
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That's what happens when the same entity that owns NASCAR buys the promotional rights to AMA Superbike. Get use to it. There's a reason besides the economy that all the manufactures are looking for away out...
03-08-2009, 08:26 PM
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Isn't it a strange that 1125 Harley/Buells are racing 600cc inlines?
Sorry, but I am not a harley fan but I did own a 1952 K-model, in 1955, I am a little older than some folks here, 72 years.
KMM996 is right, the manufacturers will get out if things stay like this, and motorcycle racing at the national level can not survive without factories. When I was a kid all the races were on flat track with local riders wjp were mostly small dealers.
Sorry, but I am not a harley fan but I did own a 1952 K-model, in 1955, I am a little older than some folks here, 72 years.
KMM996 is right, the manufacturers will get out if things stay like this, and motorcycle racing at the national level can not survive without factories. When I was a kid all the races were on flat track with local riders wjp were mostly small dealers.
03-08-2009, 09:09 PM
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Yeah, I must be missing something, the old buells were air cooled so that accounted for the displacement difference, but those were harley engines, this is a liquid cooled rotax right? Two minutes ago it was 750 fours & 1000 twins. This buell effort reminds me of the old vr1000 effort. Reliability counts at daytona. Oh yeah, great job on having two #1 plates in the same race. This is like the BMX race you had with the neighborhood kids with paper plates on your handlebars. But I was starving for racing after a cold winter.
03-08-2009, 09:16 PM
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Excuse me, but I think it's a hoot that we have a member older than me (I'm 62) and he's a squid.
I was born in Los Angeles in 1946. In the '50s there were dirt tracks all over Southern California, but then real estate got expensive and that was that. At least we still have Speedway in Costa Mesa.
I was born in Los Angeles in 1946. In the '50s there were dirt tracks all over Southern California, but then real estate got expensive and that was that. At least we still have Speedway in Costa Mesa.
03-08-2009, 09:19 PM
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Do you remember F1 with 500cc 2 strokes and 1000cc 4 strokes?
03-09-2009, 11:46 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. Does that mean that a Ducati 1098 can race head to head against a 600 ss too?
I found it laughable that even with a huge displacement advantage, the Buells were literally falling apart.
I found it laughable that even with a huge displacement advantage, the Buells were literally falling apart.
03-11-2009, 12:38 PM
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MOTOGP is a relatively new term. It used to be called Grand Prix motorcycle. I thought that the premier class, 500cc 2 strokes, were also called Formula One class, but I may be wrong on that.
Regardless, the rules used to be 500cc for 2 stroke and 1000cc for 4 stroke. And the 500's usually won since they were lighter and produced a power stroke on each downward movement of the piston. Eventually the 4 strokes caught up thanks to improved technology.
Regardless, the rules used to be 500cc for 2 stroke and 1000cc for 4 stroke. And the 500's usually won since they were lighter and produced a power stroke on each downward movement of the piston. Eventually the 4 strokes caught up thanks to improved technology.
03-11-2009, 01:51 PM
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Like others, I watched the "race" because ANY motorcycle racing in the winter seems good to someone who's still getting snow. I had hoped the they'd have learned from the previous years fiasco. They didn't.
WTF is the point of running under the lights except for the possibility of seeing a crash. loosing the lights at the end of the straight like they did could have got someone killed. Daytona as a road course for motorcycles is a joke in the daytime, never mind the night time. There's better tracks to "showcase" American talent.
They devoted so much air time to BS. The husband & wife running in the same race - like I care about that. I would have rather they spent the time discussing the riders. the bikes, tires, fuel, (the technology in general) and how the different displacements and engines were supposed to run competitively. Nope. Lets pan the garage for another stupid shot of the family or crew.
I feel bad for those trying to make a living at road racing in the US. How do you develop the talent needed to compete at the world level when dickwads put on a show like this and sell it as the pinnacle of US racing? By there own admission they had people who only ran that race each year. What a f*cking embarrassment.
WTF is the point of running under the lights except for the possibility of seeing a crash. loosing the lights at the end of the straight like they did could have got someone killed. Daytona as a road course for motorcycles is a joke in the daytime, never mind the night time. There's better tracks to "showcase" American talent.
They devoted so much air time to BS. The husband & wife running in the same race - like I care about that. I would have rather they spent the time discussing the riders. the bikes, tires, fuel, (the technology in general) and how the different displacements and engines were supposed to run competitively. Nope. Lets pan the garage for another stupid shot of the family or crew.
I feel bad for those trying to make a living at road racing in the US. How do you develop the talent needed to compete at the world level when dickwads put on a show like this and sell it as the pinnacle of US racing? By there own admission they had people who only ran that race each year. What a f*cking embarrassment.
03-11-2009, 02:24 PM
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Especially since the rider had to finally get pissed, get off the bike and grab the duct tape while the mechanics were trying to zip tie a fairing/radiator on.
Reminded me of Nicky Hayden's crash on the backside at VIR a few years ago. He went down & the bike was layng there & suddenly burst into flames.
There's a cornerworker right there with a fire extinguisher, just watching the bike go up in flames. Hayden, helmet still on, runs over, grabs the extinguisher from the guy, runs back & puts the fire out!
03-11-2009, 07:20 PM
#21
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MOTOGP is a relatively new term. It used to be called Grand Prix motorcycle. I thought that the premier class, 500cc 2 strokes, were also called Formula One class, but I may be wrong on that.
Regardless, the rules used to be 500cc for 2 stroke and 1000cc for 4 stroke. And the 500's usually won since they were lighter and produced a power stroke on each downward movement of the piston. Eventually the 4 strokes caught up thanks to improved technology.
Regardless, the rules used to be 500cc for 2 stroke and 1000cc for 4 stroke. And the 500's usually won since they were lighter and produced a power stroke on each downward movement of the piston. Eventually the 4 strokes caught up thanks to improved technology.
I know you know but...
GP was and is GP. There was/is 125GP, 250GP and was 500GP. Then MOTOGP. F1 is Formula One and only is/was cars...
03-13-2009, 12:13 PM
#23
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Actually that's not correct there was AMA Formula One. It was discontinued in 1986. Look up Mike Baldwin, he was a 5 time AMA F1 champ. Buell actually built their very first motorycle to compete in that class as well, though the series ended before it was ready.
Last edited by captainchaos; 03-13-2009 at 08:06 PM.
03-13-2009, 12:20 PM
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And yes the pace car thing is a ******* joke. I remember a few years back when I was at Daytona they used a goddamn pontiac aztec and it pulled in front of a pack of superbikes going full steam and caused a pile up. I thought a couple guys were killed but luckily no one was. Doesn't anyway say "hey maybe there's a better way of doing this???"
03-13-2009, 04:25 PM
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I tuned in just after the pace car incident and they were showing no replays. Sanctioning bodies whether Nascar or others need to get the priorities straight. It's about the race, it's about the racers, it's about the machines - not Diet Coke. Nascar will ultimately destroy racing as a failed business model that several (AMA, Indy) will follow before they realize it's too late.
03-13-2009, 05:11 PM
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I tuned in just after the pace car incident and they were showing no replays. Sanctioning bodies whether Nascar or others need to get the priorities straight. It's about the race, it's about the racers, it's about the machines - not Diet Coke. Nascar will ultimately destroy racing as a failed business model that several (AMA, Indy) will follow before they realize it's too late.
Hopefully they will figure out motorcycle fans are not your average Nascar redneck.
At least they don't call it stock car racing anymore. That was a joke. There's nothing on those cars close to stock.
And, maybe the gentleman was thinking of FIM. They have been in motorcycle racing for years. Still are.
03-13-2009, 08:04 PM
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Again read my last posts I'm sure he was thinking of Formula 1 because his description of it was pretty accurate. Rewind back to the 80's the AMA did have a class called Formula 1.
Last edited by captainchaos; 03-13-2009 at 08:15 PM.
03-13-2009, 08:25 PM
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I'm gonna bounce around and rant a little....I love the idea of seeing lots of different machines and manufacturers on the grid. I also loved how the factories used give their top grand prix and world superbike riders one-off bikes JUST to compete at Daytona with. Just like they did for the 8 hours of Suzuka. Where's the PRESTIGE??? Daytona used to be HUGE. I'll bet most of the drunk ***** out in the street don't even know that's how bike week started-around the RACE. They probably don't even know there's a race at all. But nowadays a guy like Val Rossi just probably isn't going to come and race at 200 mph next to a concrete wall that will kill a ******* stock car driver strapped into a car with a rollcage. He makes too much doing what he's doing, and besides to him Daytona's probably a shithole. Times are different. TV and the internet have changed everything. Look at what you had behind the wheel in all forms of racing back in the day. They swore, they fought, they broke their ***, played hurt, and didn't all have five custom tractor trailers and 7 figure salaries and endorsements. I'm only 32 but I know names like AJ Foyt, Shirley Muldowney, Joey Dunlop and TONS of others. And I've seen On Any Sunday enough times to see how tough all those guys were. Now one the biggest names in racing is.....Danica Patrick (?). C'mon... Yeah she can drive but in all the years she's won what ONE race? Finally? Shirley Muldowney won THREE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. She let her results do the talking, not her antifreeze ads, and back in the day was a helluva lot better looking than Danica too. I know that having a harley race and maybe just maybe actually do well MIGHT even bring a few more fans off the streets and get them interested in the racing. Is it really lopsided to have a liquid cooled 1125r racing again 600's? Of course it is. But look at the good guys/bad guys rivalry with the american bikes in pro-stock drag racing. Is that also lopsided? Yeah. Is it better for business? Maybe... Anyway I miss the excitement.
Last edited by captainchaos; 03-13-2009 at 09:24 PM.
03-13-2009, 08:51 PM
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Honestly, if they are going to allow double the displacement (or close to it) for v-twins, lets get the J-specs back out there. But, my guess would be that they wouldn't approve the bikes for use in the AMA. Its just the same crap. Like in Nascar, when toyota "found" 30ish extra hp in the engine rules package that everyone has to use, Nascar restricted them at every race to the tune of 30hp. Its that type of crap that'll **** a guy off.
03-13-2009, 09:03 PM
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I grew up going to daytona every year as a child. Both the big race, and the week before thats vintage races. Battle of the twins, etc.
In those days, mid 90's it was great in my eyes.
I got to see the Britten race multiple times, got pictures with it, bought the RARE merchandise, got Johns Autograph.
Was the Britten there this year, NO. My friend estimates about 1/2 the normal crowd and bikes were there, vintage week.
If nascar keeps it up this race and event is entirely fucked.
Could you Imagen a privateer like Britten trying to compete these days, not gonna happen.
Think about
In those days, mid 90's it was great in my eyes.
I got to see the Britten race multiple times, got pictures with it, bought the RARE merchandise, got Johns Autograph.
Was the Britten there this year, NO. My friend estimates about 1/2 the normal crowd and bikes were there, vintage week.
If nascar keeps it up this race and event is entirely fucked.
Could you Imagen a privateer like Britten trying to compete these days, not gonna happen.
Think about
