Rock

I bought my '98 Hawk with a few things already on it I need to identify.
I was told it has a CBR900 front end, but how can I confirm this.?
The front calipers are Nissin and they look pretty small. My objective is to improve braking, these are not very good at all. It has cnc machined wheels,(17"front), and I sure want to keep them. I guess what I really need to figure out is what front end fits my wheels on my Hawk, I will spend the $$ on different forks, calipers, front rotors etc, if I can keep the wheels.
The forks are conventional, but I think the cbr 900 only came with a 16 inch front wheel, so where do I start this upgrade puzzel ? As of now I only get to ride her on the track, so the need for better componets is very noticeable. Thanks for any and all help

Forde

we need pics

standard bike would have a three spoke 17 inch rim and nissin 4 pot calipers painted gold well thats what i have

Rock

I will work on pictures today, need to figure out the best way to do it(yet another one who has trouble posting photos)

lazn

For posting photos, you have two options, you can resize them small enough to attach them directly in the forum. Or you can put them on somewhere like Photobucket and use the [ ] links to embed them.

trinc

check out this thread:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=18090

i posted a close up of the f4i calipers but it shows the mounts on the forks
which will be different from the 900rr.

brakes: the biggest difference is the pads imo. then the lever pull / feel from the master cylinder... try the vesrah RJL pads, hands down the best pad i've run.

tim

Rock

Hmm, I think there will be a picture , I put it in an a album, I need to find a way to keep it off the top of are board ... I will pull off the bodywork so I can take a few of the forks, I will also measure there length, centerline of axle to top of fork ?

Just_Nick

Yup, that is indeed a CBR900 fork setup. Since the stock calipers fit, you should go find some RC51 calipers and a CBR954 master and put those on instead. That will make a world of a difference.

Forde

yeah those calipers are the same looking as my stock ones

Tweety

Well... Since nobody will be able to tell what exact calipers those are by just looking at them (they look very much the same) go measure the bore on the pistons... If they are stock VTR, swap them out... Otherwise they will be a good upgraded set regardless of their origin... Then find out what MC you have on there... Again, stock VTR is wimpy, replace it... All others are suitable...

Once you have either confirmed that the other parts are upgraded or swapped them out... Go find the best possible pad for your actual caliper... Since they are doing track duty find a set with little fade...

Rock

MC and upper triple , can I upload more than 1 pic at a time from album ?
loaned my micrometer out, so I am off to get it back

Tweety

Yeah, you can include as many pics from the album as you like...

Unfortunately the same applies for the MC as the calipers... looking at the outside is just guesswork... You cant tell the internal bore from the look of them...

If the handle is the stock VTR one (same as the clutch handle in looks) it might be a stock VTR MC and it might also be a 900RR MC which is a substantial upgrade... If they are not identical in looks it's a definete sign of an upgrade...

mikstr

Those are definitely stock calipers so a swap would do a world of good. I am running the same forks with 98 900RR calipers (same as SP1 and 929) along with an 06 ZX-6R NIssin radial MC and braking is absolutely fantastic (steel brake lines and good pads help too).

Rock

Thanks to all for the input.
The clutch lever and brake lever are the same. I tried to remove the pads and both pins holding the pads in are stripped, even used a high quality ez out to remove them and no good, they will need to be drilled and re-tapped, I think it is a fine thread and not a common one at that.
I am starting to think the whole front end is a mix of cbr 900 forks and stock calipers /rotors and MC. I am trying to accomplish a better handling AND braking set up. The way it is now, it wont turn in and brakes overheat and fade in no time at all. I cant raise the forks( lower the triples) or raise the rear ride heighth because there is no front pre load left to add. I understand v twins are know to not turn in well, I need to climb on the tank to get it to turn in at all.

Do I replace the calipers and Race tech the forks ? add rear 5 mm it sounds like '98 CBR900 calipers could do well

or change the calipers to 954 add rc 51 MC/ forks, race tech those,?add rear 5mm
or CBR1000rr components ?
or consider GSXR calipers
If the wheels are the same as stock Hawk/CBR900 , I should be able to use the same options.......
I'm not the fastest guy on the circuit by no means, but if I go with the correct set up, it will improve. money is a consideration, but not all controlling, no new bike means keep what I like and make her work for me.
Many choices, some easier than others
I would be so out of luck without the knowledge on this forum.
Can anyone tell me the stock ride height in front ?
thanks again

Rock

I though I would post a full picture. Someone spent some $$ on this bike,
now I get to make it work for me. It weighs in at 420 lbs full , not light, but lighter than stock. Po did no engine mods and about 10 track days, fell down and parked it, no damage, scraped off part of Carbo Tech decal, so I took the other off.

I want to switch to a 14 tooth upfront, it has 42 in back, will the 14 work okay w/o rubbing the swing arm ?
I sent the Ohlins rear shock in and they sprung it for me and rebuilt it
the p/o was reall tall, and the rearset were dragging, moved them up .

changed the jetting from F185/R182 to F190/R182 still pretty lean,
going to switch to 195F / 190R and should be close
pilots at 50, needles 2 up from bottom Factory pro jet kit
TPS @ 500 ohms
added FP ignition advance gear
APE cct's
Had Remus open (?) cans from a Ducati 900ss tig welded in place,
the others were pretty restricted street ver. Remus

It runs alot better than it did, and has a noticeble gain in power, now just needs to stop and handle, I have a few things to do before the Fork work,
I guess I should stiffen the swing arm, so that will be another post.
I love this machine, it will do many things pretty well, and sounds so good on the gas.

Gregw

? I've always seen the rear carb get the bigger jet.

Rock

dunno for sure, just going by the plugs, front was much whiter than the back. pipes are prettty open and the airbox lid is cut out, no air dam,

Tweety

Usually mucking about with the airbox on the VTR isn't a great idea... It doesn't like the usual ideas of removing/drilling the lid that much... 9 out of 10 usually go back to stock after trying it...

If you keep the forks you have on there, getting a set of 929/954/RC51 calipers and matching MC is a definete upgrade... Adding racetech components for you weight is almost a must... It does nothing for turn in though... Dropping the front more than the already shorter than stock 900RR forks isn't a good move, raise the rear instead...

If you do an upgrade to a CBR 929/954/1000 front you need to upgrade to a matching front wheel as they all use a 25 mm axle instead of the 20 mm the VTR and 900RR uses... The RC51 front wheel is similar to the 900RR reat in looks and the CBR's use a 3 spoke that's reasonably close in looks to a stock rim... But neither lets you keep the rims you have unless you can squeese a 25 mm axle and bearings on there... But at that point you need a lot of custom work...

Rock

yeah, the airbox thing, I have spent some time here reading and you are right on that, stock seems to be the way to go. It came gutted and cut so I am trying to make a go with it. I do have a complete back up that is stock, so .... right now though it wont turn or stop, I guess I jacked my own thread, thats dumb on my part.

What is easier to find ? 929/954/RC 51 calipers and matching MC

the whole set up ? 929/954/1000 MC

mikstr, the 98 cbr900rr calipers , easy find ? I suck using Ebay, but I want an upgrade badly, so I would get better.

I would Racetech any forks I install.

If I measure my axle, on the outer most left side, (by the hole)
it is 25mm, I cant pull the axle now as I am "soaking" the damn brake pads pins in lube to try and get them to break free. They are balanced on the radiators with solvent (liquid wrench) in the holes. I hope I can put vice grips, some heat, and turn them between the pads. I want to scheduled a day at a local track and would like to just change the pads out.

If this is a dumb question, I can take the beating, can you measure the axle diameter as I have and be accurate ? p/o might have had to but in a bigger axle to make the wheels work ? I did not measure the spacers I know there bigger

Rock

It was a dumb question, I just pulled out my 20 mm axle. So I am looking for the direct bolt on stuff, keeping my 900rr forks. If I put the better
calipers, MC on there I should be just fine. time to start poking around ebay ? Any other salvage yards I can trust ?

Thanks a hell of alot for the help
Roc

mikstr

trust me, a set of calipers (preferably 98-99 900RR, 929 or SP-1 as they have the largest pistons), a decent MC (radials work really well), steel lines and decent pads and your brakes will amaze you (and anyone else who rides your bike)

Rock

Do I keep my same rotors ? there is a set of RC 51 calipers on E bay now that are pretty cheap..

mikstr

keep same rotors, nothing wrong with them (asuming they are in decent shape anyhow). Unless you plan on doing many track days (in which case upgraded or larger diameter rotors may be a bonus), you'll find the set-up I am proposing to be more than sufficient.

lazn

The F4, F4i, 600RR, RC51, 929RR, 954RR calipers are all externally identical, and they need slight grinding to clear the mounting bracket on the VTR fork leg. Other than that, they bolt on and work quite well. The caliper piston and master cylinder sizes vary from model to model and year to year. Here is a little chart I stole from another post with all the data.

2003-2004 CBR600RR mc 11/16” (17.4625 mm)
caliper pistons 32mm/30mm

2000-2001 CBR929RR mc 19mm
caliper pistons 34mm/30mm

2002-2003 CBR954RR mc 11/16” (17.4625 mm)
caliper pistons 32mm/30mm

2000-2001 RC51 mc 19mm
caliper pistons 34mm/32mm

2002-present RC51 mc 11/16” (17.4625 mm)
caliper pistons 32mm/30mm

1999-Present CBR600F4(i) mc 5/8” (15.87mm)
caliper pistons 34mm/32mm

Stock VTR Master Cylinder 14mm
caliper pistons 30mm/27mm

mikstr

calipers so not need grinding to fit 900RR forks

BTW, from the models listed, the F4i combo would give the best mechanical advantage (a combination of the smallest MC piston size and largest caliper pistons)

Rock

I still have not got the pin out but managed to measue the pistons in the calipers, they are stock VTR with stock Honda pads. (have the metal plate on the pad.) This is at least part of reason they fade so fast. Thanks Iazan for the chart. I am getting closer to the mods I need to make. My wheels are bolted to CBR 900rr front forks, stock vtr rotors, stock MC .

option 1), there is a complete SP-1 front end available, (EB) I can easily fit a wheel bearing that supports the 25 mm axle in my wheel, what I need to find would be a 320 mm rotor that bolts to my cbr900rr wheel, no luck so far. Does anyone know if it is available.? i probably would not have to racetech these forks.

option 2 . keep my forks re-work with racetech etc. There is a set of Pazzo levers,mounts, front calipers, MC and a clutch reservoir, all ss lines, available also, they are from a 2002 RC-51 ,these will bolt on (correct ?) and I can add a good set of pads, off and riding

I need to look to see what cbr 600 F4i stuff is available, chart says it all


thanks

swordfish

I haven't heard anyone mention it yet but 01-03 gixxer 1000 calipers are 6 pots and they are a direct bolt up. so are the 750's from the same year but they are only 4 pots but still an improvement. that's what I have now. the gixxer MC is also better but requires a little modding but judging from what you've already done, it shouldn't be a problem for you. if those are stock calipers you have there, then the gixxer calipers should still bolt up.

mikstr

Not having done a direct comparison between the two perhaps I shouldn`t comment but supposedly learned people on other forums (notably Speedzilla) have commented how the Nissin four-pots used on the RCs/CBRs... are supposedly a marked improvement over the early 6-pots used on the GSX-Rs. Take it for what it`s worth of course....

swordfish

all I can tell you is the tokico 4 pots that the 01 gixxer 750 had work better on the hawk(with the gixxer MC) than the stock calipers did. that much I can say from first hand experience. how they stack up against the RC and the cbr's I couldn't say. but they are a definite improvement over stock.

Rock

Thanks Swordfish/ mikstr,
I guess stock VTR forks and CBR 900rr forks will carry the same upgraded caliper as previously mentioned , mine measure 45mm outside diameter and are 28-5/8 th inches in length (71.12 cm) ,unloaded, in length.
I can look for rc-51, cbr f4i, 929, 954, and just bolt on. I will also price out the Gixxer stuff, but the F4i set I saw were 35 dollars, thats cheap.

Do you know if the RC-51 MC and clutch reservoirs, levers, bolt up directly ? I can make new ss lines, I understand most all bar hardware on Honda's are same

that should be all I need to start looking.Time to search ebay, I finally figured out (duh) there is a parts search only, works quite well

thank you all

shayne

Most of the Honda calipers will need a small amount of grinding to fit the VTR fork leg, but judging by the pic of your front end I think that you won't need to grind them.

The CBR600F4i master cylider fits straight on, and the brake lever is the same as well. Very happy with my swap.