Reverse Shifting.
02-16-2012, 02:02 PM
#1
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Reverse Shifting.
I know there is a thread in the Knowledge Base about shorting the shifting feel, but, I have gone one better.
Reverse your shifter. Instead of 1 down and 5 up, now mine is 1 up 5 down. shifting is tons faster and so much easier. Safer as well when diving into a hard turn and getting ready to up shift, now my foot isnt stuck under the shifter. Its easier cause you have two large calf muscles to push your foot down and one small shin muscle to pull up (wont get into anatomy and physiology at this time...LOL) other then that.
I had my ZX6 like this for years while drag racing and clutchless up shifts were smokin fast.
All that has to be done is remove the shifting arm from the out put shaft and rotate it clockwise to about 11 O'clock tighten the pinch bolt and adjust your shifting lever to your liking. Then take er out for a ride. REMEMBER ITS NOW 1 UP, 5 DOWN!!!! Let me know how goes it........
Here is a pic-
I take no responsibility for someone eating it due to not remembering the new shifting pattern.
Reverse your shifter. Instead of 1 down and 5 up, now mine is 1 up 5 down. shifting is tons faster and so much easier. Safer as well when diving into a hard turn and getting ready to up shift, now my foot isnt stuck under the shifter. Its easier cause you have two large calf muscles to push your foot down and one small shin muscle to pull up (wont get into anatomy and physiology at this time...LOL) other then that.
I had my ZX6 like this for years while drag racing and clutchless up shifts were smokin fast.
All that has to be done is remove the shifting arm from the out put shaft and rotate it clockwise to about 11 O'clock tighten the pinch bolt and adjust your shifting lever to your liking. Then take er out for a ride. REMEMBER ITS NOW 1 UP, 5 DOWN!!!! Let me know how goes it........
Here is a pic-
I take no responsibility for someone eating it due to not remembering the new shifting pattern.
02-16-2012, 02:12 PM
#2
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I don't want to rain on anyones parade but I like many other past and present racers have been doing this for years. In my case as far back as 1975. It's also a very easy pattern to get used to. In fact it sort of begs the question of why don't the OEM's do it because as far as I know all factory race bikes use this pattern!
02-16-2012, 02:26 PM
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I don't want to rain on anyones parade but I like many other past and present racers have been doing this for years. In my case as far back as 1975. It's also a very easy pattern to get used to. In fact it sort of begs the question of why don't the OEM's do it because as far as I know all factory race bikes use this pattern!
I agree!!! I too have been doing this for some time and wonder why they dont make it this way from the factory. And yes your right about the factory race teams have the pattern reversed.
I love it and just wanted to share my findings with all!!!! Makes shifting so much nicer!!!
02-17-2012, 06:48 AM
#8
sorry, but i don`t find any good of reverse shifting
when you up-shift you use the smaller muscle, BUT up-shifting has always been easier and less effort than the down shift
you can do clutchless upshifts but hardly downshifts, right?
sorry but i do not find it usefull out of the GP circuit
when you up-shift you use the smaller muscle, BUT up-shifting has always been easier and less effort than the down shift
you can do clutchless upshifts but hardly downshifts, right?
sorry but i do not find it usefull out of the GP circuit
02-17-2012, 07:15 AM
#9
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This point made in this thread, and the other the OP posted in is..... This is not new, folks have been doing this for many years.
AND, it is not something most will find useful.
If you try it and like the results, good for you, that’s not wrong or bad, just different.
I admit, I tried it on a street bike once….was a PIA, cuz a week later I had to go find a new shifter to put it back to stock.
To each his one,,, I don’t do chrome wheels and crappy HID retrofits and purple rooster combs on my helmet either.. but if it works for you, go for it.
AND, it is not something most will find useful.
If you try it and like the results, good for you, that’s not wrong or bad, just different.
I admit, I tried it on a street bike once….was a PIA, cuz a week later I had to go find a new shifter to put it back to stock.
To each his one,,, I don’t do chrome wheels and crappy HID retrofits and purple rooster combs on my helmet either.. but if it works for you, go for it.
02-17-2012, 09:56 AM
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I, so hope you are being funny-VTRider ! !Hey "SQUID" 00superchick" You know everything.. Don't adjust the dam thing.. as HRCA, or Jay suggest.. Ya go ahead, ride the bike that way..
Look me up when -you start complaining about it not shifting correctly.. so..
I can remind you --- of this thread....
02-17-2012, 10:03 AM
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sorry, but i don`t find any good of reverse shifting
when you up-shift you use the smaller muscle, BUT up-shifting has always been easier and less effort than the down shift
you can do clutchless upshifts but hardly downshifts, right?
sorry but i do not find it usefull out of the GP circuit
when you up-shift you use the smaller muscle, BUT up-shifting has always been easier and less effort than the down shift
you can do clutchless upshifts but hardly downshifts, right?
sorry but i do not find it usefull out of the GP circuit
When you upshift with the reverse shifting you use two very strong and large calf muscle ( Soleus and Gastrocnemius) vs the small and weaker shin muscle ( Anterior Tibialis). Just to clarify. But to each there own and what ever works for you. I like the reverse pattern.
Last edited by 00SUPERHAWK; 02-17-2012 at 10:05 AM.
02-17-2012, 10:08 AM
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This point made in this thread, and the other the OP posted in is..... This is not new, folks have been doing this for many years.
AND, it is not something most will find useful.
If you try it and like the results, good for you, that’s not wrong or bad, just different.
I admit, I tried it on a street bike once….was a PIA, cuz a week later I had to go find a new shifter to put it back to stock.
To each his one,,, I don’t do chrome wheels and crappy HID retrofits and purple rooster combs on my helmet either.. but if it works for you, go for it.
AND, it is not something most will find useful.
If you try it and like the results, good for you, that’s not wrong or bad, just different.
I admit, I tried it on a street bike once….was a PIA, cuz a week later I had to go find a new shifter to put it back to stock.
To each his one,,, I don’t do chrome wheels and crappy HID retrofits and purple rooster combs on my helmet either.. but if it works for you, go for it.
I have had it reversed on many bikes and have had no problems or ill effects. wether for the street or running full seasons drag racing
02-17-2012, 10:37 AM
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02-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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Read his post again, No he wasnt. It was a bash. And thats fine. He had his moment of glory on the internet trying to bash a 46 yr old. and to no avail he failed.
Thanks tho.
02-17-2012, 11:11 AM
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It's an opportunity for discussion IMO, since no one can really hear tone or context on a forum. Hell, maybe his buddy typed that in just for kicks to watch people's heart rates go up using only binary code!
... but really, I am curious, why 11 o'clock rather than a 90 degree upright? Seems that physics would indicate that 90 degrees would function smoother as it is not pressing against the rotational point of the shifter. I haven't tried it, so don't know... is it just physical restraints? Is there another reason?
Tone: genuinely curious (as I will probably try it this week sometime when I get a chance to practice a new shift pattern)
... but really, I am curious, why 11 o'clock rather than a 90 degree upright? Seems that physics would indicate that 90 degrees would function smoother as it is not pressing against the rotational point of the shifter. I haven't tried it, so don't know... is it just physical restraints? Is there another reason?
Tone: genuinely curious (as I will probably try it this week sometime when I get a chance to practice a new shift pattern)
02-17-2012, 11:31 AM
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It's an opportunity for discussion IMO, since no one can really hear tone or context on a forum. Hell, maybe his buddy typed that in just for kicks to watch people's heart rates go up using only binary code!
... but really, I am curious, why 11 o'clock rather than a 90 degree upright? Seems that physics would indicate that 90 degrees would function smoother as it is not pressing against the rotational point of the shifter. I haven't tried it, so don't know... is it just physical restraints? Is there another reason?
Tone: genuinely curious (as I will probably try it this week sometime when I get a chance to practice a new shift pattern)
... but really, I am curious, why 11 o'clock rather than a 90 degree upright? Seems that physics would indicate that 90 degrees would function smoother as it is not pressing against the rotational point of the shifter. I haven't tried it, so don't know... is it just physical restraints? Is there another reason?
Tone: genuinely curious (as I will probably try it this week sometime when I get a chance to practice a new shift pattern)
After looking at it again Im just about 90*, Maybe a splin off at the most. I know my original mesurments had me very close to the front sprocket cover, so I thought I want gonna be able to do it. Just for the hell of it I took the lever off and put it at the top of the output shaft and it cleared.
Thanks for your input....
02-17-2012, 11:52 AM
#18
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Not bashing here, but I honestly don't think it makes any difference which leg muscles are used. Only X amount of force is needed to shift, and both calf muscles and shin muscle are capable of applying that force.
Personally, I would rather leave it stock for street so I can jam down on the shifter in an emergency stopping situation. This is the only place I can see muscle use relevant, as you can point your foot down in a faster succession than pointing it up ( try it
) .
I do see how reversing for racing would have positive results on foot position so you dont have to slip under the shifter for up shifts, but you will still need to for down shifts. It just seems to me that down shifting is more important than up shifting.
Personally, I would rather leave it stock for street so I can jam down on the shifter in an emergency stopping situation. This is the only place I can see muscle use relevant, as you can point your foot down in a faster succession than pointing it up ( try it
) .I do see how reversing for racing would have positive results on foot position so you dont have to slip under the shifter for up shifts, but you will still need to for down shifts. It just seems to me that down shifting is more important than up shifting.
02-17-2012, 12:50 PM
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Just a thought...I remember changing bikes from a '53 Triumph Thunderbird ( rt. side shifter, 1 up and 3 down) to a '68 Honda CB 350 (left side shifter, 1down, 4 up) and muscle memory will trump conscious thought in an emergency situation. Point is this, Are you creating a safety problem if you try to go from one muscle memory to another one for a distinct difference in reaction in the same emergency situation. I know my case is a bit odd, having to change the pattern and the side of the shifter. As I say just a thought.
02-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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All is ok. I am used to it this way, more so than stock (normal). When I bought the bike last week the first thing I did was lift up on the shifter as if I was on my old ZX6. I have no issues with getting my foot under the shifter to down shift quickly, maybe not as quick as normal, but it works for me.
As was said a few posts ago, many factory race teams run it reversed due to not wanting there foot under the shifter while hard into a turn to upshift to the next gear. so reversed all they have to do is step on the shifter for the next up shift without fear of getting the toes taken off.
I started doing it years ago again while drag racing, picked it up from a friend who has been doing the shifting reversed longer thank Ive been riding.
Thanks for the input guys. Keep it safe.
As was said a few posts ago, many factory race teams run it reversed due to not wanting there foot under the shifter while hard into a turn to upshift to the next gear. so reversed all they have to do is step on the shifter for the next up shift without fear of getting the toes taken off.
I started doing it years ago again while drag racing, picked it up from a friend who has been doing the shifting reversed longer thank Ive been riding.
Thanks for the input guys. Keep it safe.
02-17-2012, 03:13 PM
#22
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0.o
A professional rider shifting mid corner? Especially hard corner? Not likely, that unloads your suspension, changes your lean and turn angle, and loses traction.
I bet it saves a bunch of time drag racing though.
A professional rider shifting mid corner? Especially hard corner? Not likely, that unloads your suspension, changes your lean and turn angle, and loses traction.
I bet it saves a bunch of time drag racing though.
02-17-2012, 03:51 PM
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Why this turns into a pissing contest beats me. The proof is in the pudding go ask any roadracer, and yes there may be a few that prefer the "street" shift pattern ; but then Gary Nixon still prefered a right side shift because of his Triumph days and it wasn't till Kanemoto refused to change it that he adapted or so the story goes!
02-17-2012, 06:26 PM
#24
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Up shifting out of a corner is WAY different than shifting mid hard corner. The reason he gave was so their toes dont hit, but they wouldn't hit if you're back on the meat of the tire anyways.
Regardless, no ones having a pissing contest. Everything posted has been an opinion. I'm actually going to reverse my shifting to try it out and see if I don't eat my own words.
Regardless, no ones having a pissing contest. Everything posted has been an opinion. I'm actually going to reverse my shifting to try it out and see if I don't eat my own words.
02-17-2012, 06:42 PM
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This is the primary reason to reverse shift. Keel over on the edge of the tires hammer down and up shifting is an issue. I don't do it, have tried it, but i have bikes that use linkage and that have direct attached lever to shift shaft. So trying to go back and forth on bikes with and without reverse is why i don't change mine.
Now lets have a discussion on swapping clutch and front brake levers form right to left and vice verse.
02-17-2012, 07:09 PM
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ding ding ding
This is the primary reason to reverse shift. Keel over on the edge of the tires hammer down and up shifting is an issue. I don't do it, have tried it, but i have bikes that use linkage and that have direct attached lever to shift shaft. So trying to go back and forth on bikes with and without reverse is why i don't change mine.
Now lets have a discussion on swapping clutch and front brake levers form right to left and vice verse.
This is the primary reason to reverse shift. Keel over on the edge of the tires hammer down and up shifting is an issue. I don't do it, have tried it, but i have bikes that use linkage and that have direct attached lever to shift shaft. So trying to go back and forth on bikes with and without reverse is why i don't change mine.
Now lets have a discussion on swapping clutch and front brake levers form right to left and vice verse.
02-17-2012, 07:29 PM
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Well, if you watch an onboard video of the pros, the do shift during corners all the time. And, it has nothing to do with the muscle strength, as it takes the same force to do either action. Its about clearance mid corner, and kinesiology of the position of the rider. You are better suited to pull up on the lever while sitting up, which occurs under braking. besides all this, I wouldn't do it. We were setting up a race bike last year and toyed with the idea. Dropped it all together when we discussed the old dog, new tricks. Imagine a steering wheel in you car that did the opposite of what you wanted it to do (right=left). You might think you will get the hang of it, but a downshift at 10k would warrant a video upload to youtube.
02-17-2012, 07:34 PM
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02-17-2012, 07:37 PM
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Why so? I was serious.
I have an FZR600 race bike that I want to make GP shift for this season. Certain turns the effort and movement it takes to get your foot under the shifter throws off your rhythm. It makes sense to me that I should practice some now so I don't have to get used to it the first time back on the track this year. There is enough to worry about on a racetrack I don't need to be confused on my shift pattern.
Last year a student in my race school riding a ducati 848 tried to make his bike GP shift that day for the first time. Needless to say after two sessions he switched it back.
I have an FZR600 race bike that I want to make GP shift for this season. Certain turns the effort and movement it takes to get your foot under the shifter throws off your rhythm. It makes sense to me that I should practice some now so I don't have to get used to it the first time back on the track this year. There is enough to worry about on a racetrack I don't need to be confused on my shift pattern.
Last year a student in my race school riding a ducati 848 tried to make his bike GP shift that day for the first time. Needless to say after two sessions he switched it back.
02-18-2012, 06:28 AM
#30
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Muscle memory, or just plain memory is a bitch... I have been running reverse pattern on my race bikes and "normal" on my street bikes for as long as I have been riding... Swapping back and forth is no problem for me, when I'm on the road, I shift one way, and when I'm on the track I shift one way... That's worked into my brain and foot by now...
And you can call it muscle memory or whatever... But so far the only time I get it wrong is the first upshift coming out of the paddock on a streetbike... I haven't gotten it wrong once in life or death situations, or going full tilt on a track, and I doubt I will... However I try not to do to much track with a street pattern, since when my brain is in "race mode", so is my foot...
And you can call it muscle memory or whatever... But so far the only time I get it wrong is the first upshift coming out of the paddock on a streetbike... I haven't gotten it wrong once in life or death situations, or going full tilt on a track, and I doubt I will... However I try not to do to much track with a street pattern, since when my brain is in "race mode", so is my foot...
