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I'll repost in classifieds if there is any interest...
I've got a verbal agreement for a reduced price from both Kent and Web for reground cams. I need to do a minimum to capture discounts though. Depending on which cam we use it looks as though it will be in the neighborhood of $500, we would need to provide oem's, set of 4, of which I have 2 complete extra sets to spare. Let me know and we can start hashing out the available profiles. FYI, the profile from Kent is on their site, Web cams posts a hard weld profile, that can be discounted too.
I had considered that, but truthfully Kent is based in UK anyway and the price isn't too bad if you live there and don't have to pay shipping and exchange rate. I reached out to the legendary people of VTR lore for cam specs and flow data, they were rather unwilling to share real #'s however. Either way I'm used to going it alone in this regard. I did have another conversation with an Aussie Chap and here is part of our conversation: "Brian,
1. Never underestimate the value of experience of running a combination.
2. Always know, more is better than less.
3. Doing something new, being a pioneer remember this pioneers always get arrows in their ***."
So, I suspect that I will end up with Web's profile. I have been knee deep in Vizard's books though and he has quite a bit of good info on cam and head combos, well worth the time.
Minor update: One set is at Web for evaluation and another is at crower for the same. I had a thought that when it comes to regrinds, it may be better to use an exhaust cam as a core to start with for the intake. It does have a bit more meat on it and may allow for a better profile than a reground intake. I will update soon.
Minor update: One set is at Web for evaluation and another is at crower for the same. I had a thought that when it comes to regrinds, it may be better to use an exhaust cam as a core to start with for the intake. It does have a bit more meat on it and may allow for a better profile than a reground intake. I will update soon.
AV
And here they are...1 set of reground cams from Web. The turn around time is very quick, the packaging is excellent. The cost is relatively good and the quality appears to be excellent. I am sending them out for cryo in a few days and hopefully I'll have them in and ready for a dyno run before winter. Here's hoping.
My pleasure...Web has some interesting requirements for oil usage, they prefer 30w non synth. So, I think I'll have a discussion with them about that pursuant to the possibility of coatings such as hard chrome or DLC. I will update on that too asap. When these cams do go in, I will be using the RC51 buckets for sure. If anyone has an interest in he cam specs just give me a shout and I will post the data.
FWIW, I had looked into getting my cams DLC coated (got my buckets done) and was told (by the folks who did my buckets) that it`s not recommended to do cast cams (OK for billet though).
on another note, please post the specs, am curious to see...
That the basics, let me know if you want the timing events.
what lift are those measured at? They seem like pretty aggressive numbers BTW (hopefully your crank will survive as aggressive cams are known to cause failure on OEM cranks, as per Roger D)
That is at .050", Stock is about .405 so it really isn't that much higher. As far as Ditch goes, I have not been able to glean any real data from him, (regarding engine internals) so while he may know what he's talking about if he cannot or will not share the hard numbers I tend to avoid his tips. But that goes for anyone. Also, as far as lift goes..the Hawk doesn't actually need anymore lift and likely can't even use any more lift at least for cylinder fill and empty. The most any valve needs for lift is .25 D. In our case that comes out to about .315 for ex and .374 for int. After that any more lift does not allow more flow but it does allow cam phasing and better control of ramp speed. What I was really after was a longer duration and a I got that. However, the oem cam does not have the same profile so it is possible that the oem has less than max usable lift for large parts of the duration, and it may be that the regrind has more usable lift for greater duration. In that case I accept the greater lift with glee. Either way, they are out being cryo treated and coated with an anti friction coating as we speak. Hopefully they will be in soon!
AV
Last edited by ACE VenTRa; 09-10-2019 at 02:35 AM.
Reason: data correction
They are officially installed in the bike. One thing I forgot is that, being a regrind, the clearance changes substantially. So...basically I'm waiting on a new shim kit which has all the shims I am lacking. The new cams end up with a clearance of about .017" to .019" and all my shims are in the 1.7 to 1.95 range so I need quite a jump to make the gap, the least being a 2.05 the greatest being a 2.30 ish. So far the shims have been calculated and the gasket surfaces have been prepped. I reset the TPS while I was at it and double checked my AF screws.
Pro tip # 85694: The night before installation of metal parts, spray them with graphite lube and let it dry. It retains the assembly lube far better than a bare metal surface.
Note* I have a set of RC51 shim buckets that I will be using and upon installation I found the one major difference from the SH lifters. The top of the RC bucket is lower by about ".015, so you will need to re-shim by a large margin if you use them. Combining that with a reground cam creates the need for a fairly thick shim somewhere in the range of 2.70.
FYI....if it has not already been in this topic...When I installed my Stage II Mori Cams, I had to do some grinding of the cam shaft covers so it had the clearance to get full rotation.
I am sure this has been looked at.
Thanks a bunch, my kit cam in today though. I managed to get the rear cams dialed in today and as a testament to Web Cams work, each valve took the same shim, respectively, or should I say, equally larger than the previous with no deviation. Hope fully tomorrow I can get the fronts done, maybe even fired up on Saturday.!!
Aside from my snafus which led to delays, the install was as simple as any other valve adjustment. The bike starts easy and idles but I have to say it has one hell of a bump now. I thought it sounded good before but holy hell it sounds better than any engine I know of, no bs-in.
Performance: it does not seem to have lost any power down low but it sure revs a lot cleaner to red line and seems to be making power a lot further along.
Driveability: No loss at all. Maybe it's coincidental but a lot of the around town snatchiness has gone away and it purs along at 3500 comfortably now.
I did not use the RC buckets this time around due to a variance in specs on one bucket. I didn't have time to check the lifter bore to verify which one is out so they're back in the box for now. Next month I suspect it will be too cold to enjoy any rides so I suppose I'll park it for the season and start getting ready for the head swap.
One of my snafus was timing the rear cylinder 180 out...turns out you can make a twingle with this engine and it sounds like one mean thumper. It has an interesting power band, kind of smooth and torquey but doesn't rev as high. Sound like a suped up CRF450.
I think a set of adjustable sprockets are in order to take full advantage of the cams, sigh...one more thing on the list. I'll take a short vid with audio and try to post it,
Unfortunately I don't know. The company I use for cryogenic treatment also provides coatings, but, they are proprietary and not sold commercially or retail. The only option is to have them apply it...also there is not data on the provenance of the coating other than being developed for the aerospace industry. I do know that it requires a substrate and is baked on so I suspect it to be similar to DLC, Moly, or any of the other many choices. I figure there are only so many ways to skin a cat and this coating should probably be similar in nature to all the rest. Next time I open it up I'll look close at the finish for wear.
03-29-2019, 12:32 PM
