Making a Larger Gas Tank
08-16-2004, 03:58 PM
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Making a Larger Gas Tank
I guess it was one too many episodes of Monster Garage. Maybe it was "Motorcycle Mania" (1 2 and 3) too many times. Maybe it was watching "American Chopper" that made me think "if those apes with tools can make bike parts so can I".... Whatever it was, I decided I could "make" a bigger gas tank myself.
My first attempt was buying an RC51 tank off ebay (dented up) for a whopping $10 (it cost more than that to ship it!). While the RC51 tank IS bigger, is bigger in nearly every dimension from our tank. It's too long, and too wide. I tried modifying it and ended up with a "hulk" that looked like someone crashed an RC51 into a telephone pole at speed. Into the dumpster it went.
My second attempt was a tad bit more thoughtout...but just as flawed.
I bought 2 dented/damaged Superhawk tanks off ebay ($15 and $25 bucks). My "plan" was to cut the "top" off one tank, the "bottom" off another tank (leaving the damaged areas behind) and weld them back together, taking some extra materal from each tank to create a "larger" tank. While it sounds good "in theory", in practice, it don't work that way.
The base of the red tank was in much better shape than the blue tank, so I decided to us the "red" tank as my "bottom". The top of the blue tank was in fairly good shape, other than the top of it was dented in a tad. I figured I could pound that out in no time.
I quicly realized that I'd have to do A LOT of cutting, measuring and welding to get this puppy to line up/look good, but I was willing. Then I hit another problem. To make a long story short, thanks to honda using metal lines to connect the gas tank vent and gas overflow pipe, you can not just "add" more height to the tank. You've got to lengthen the Tubes themsevles. JOY.
Blue Tank topside #1
Blue Tank,topside #2
On these two, you'll see the "hard lines" that I had to cut out of the bottom of the tank. (part of the bottom of the tank is still attached to them.)
Blue Tank in/underside #1
Blue Tank in/underside #2
Here you can see the "hole" where the pipes were cutout. The round holes with numbers next to them give the clearance (in millimeters) to any obstruction/object under that spot on the tank.
Leftover parts of blue tank underside
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #1
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #2
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #3
Blue Tank Underside, airbox portion #1
Blue Tank Underside, airbox portion #2
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #1
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #2
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #3
Red tank, top cut off. #1
Red tank, top cut off. #2
Red tank top; top view #1
Red tank top; top view #2
Red tank top; inside view #1
Red tank top; inside view #1
One of the things I noticed about our tanks. There is at least half a gallon and possibly more "fluid space" inside the tank that is below the level of the fuel pickup. Sure the tank might be 4.4 gallons, but we can only USE/drain about 4 gallons worth (or maybe less). Look at the photos above of the blue/red tank bottoms. Notice where the fuel pickup hole is, and where the side "saddles" of the tank are. They are below the level of the fuel pickup by several inches, and are between 1' to 3" wide. This photo shows the pockets. Just behind the airbox, to either side of the airbox.
Around this point I figured, I'd just be better off to "make" my own tank from scratch. How hard can it be if those apes on TV do it...right?
A trip down to my local metal supply shop secured me a 4'x10' sheet of 1mm thick cold rolled steel. ($42.87 with tax)
The first marks/cuts
The first few folds/bends #1
The first few folds/bends #2
The first few folds/bends #3
Bottom taking shape #1
Bottom taking shape #2
Bottom taking shape #3
Bottom taking shape #4
Bottom taking shape #5
I have 3 main goals with creating my own tank.
#1. More Capacity.
#2. Get rid of that ugly "razor seam" on the bottom of the tank edges.
#3. Get rid of that ugly "hump" on the sides of the tank where it rises well above the frame rails, and make the tank flush with the frame all the way down the side.
I don't know if I'm going to be successful. Or if my tank will look any better than my first two attempts... Wish me luck. And feel free to offer advise/tips.
My first attempt was buying an RC51 tank off ebay (dented up) for a whopping $10 (it cost more than that to ship it!). While the RC51 tank IS bigger, is bigger in nearly every dimension from our tank. It's too long, and too wide. I tried modifying it and ended up with a "hulk" that looked like someone crashed an RC51 into a telephone pole at speed. Into the dumpster it went.
My second attempt was a tad bit more thoughtout...but just as flawed.
I bought 2 dented/damaged Superhawk tanks off ebay ($15 and $25 bucks). My "plan" was to cut the "top" off one tank, the "bottom" off another tank (leaving the damaged areas behind) and weld them back together, taking some extra materal from each tank to create a "larger" tank. While it sounds good "in theory", in practice, it don't work that way.
The base of the red tank was in much better shape than the blue tank, so I decided to us the "red" tank as my "bottom". The top of the blue tank was in fairly good shape, other than the top of it was dented in a tad. I figured I could pound that out in no time.
I quicly realized that I'd have to do A LOT of cutting, measuring and welding to get this puppy to line up/look good, but I was willing. Then I hit another problem. To make a long story short, thanks to honda using metal lines to connect the gas tank vent and gas overflow pipe, you can not just "add" more height to the tank. You've got to lengthen the Tubes themsevles. JOY.
Blue Tank topside #1
Blue Tank,topside #2
On these two, you'll see the "hard lines" that I had to cut out of the bottom of the tank. (part of the bottom of the tank is still attached to them.)
Blue Tank in/underside #1
Blue Tank in/underside #2
Here you can see the "hole" where the pipes were cutout. The round holes with numbers next to them give the clearance (in millimeters) to any obstruction/object under that spot on the tank.
Leftover parts of blue tank underside
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #1
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #2
Leftover parts of blue tank inside #3
Blue Tank Underside, airbox portion #1
Blue Tank Underside, airbox portion #2
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #1
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #2
Blue Tank inside, airbox portion #3
Red tank, top cut off. #1
Red tank, top cut off. #2
Red tank top; top view #1
Red tank top; top view #2
Red tank top; inside view #1
Red tank top; inside view #1
One of the things I noticed about our tanks. There is at least half a gallon and possibly more "fluid space" inside the tank that is below the level of the fuel pickup. Sure the tank might be 4.4 gallons, but we can only USE/drain about 4 gallons worth (or maybe less). Look at the photos above of the blue/red tank bottoms. Notice where the fuel pickup hole is, and where the side "saddles" of the tank are. They are below the level of the fuel pickup by several inches, and are between 1' to 3" wide. This photo shows the pockets. Just behind the airbox, to either side of the airbox.
Around this point I figured, I'd just be better off to "make" my own tank from scratch. How hard can it be if those apes on TV do it...right?
A trip down to my local metal supply shop secured me a 4'x10' sheet of 1mm thick cold rolled steel. ($42.87 with tax)
The first marks/cuts
The first few folds/bends #1
The first few folds/bends #2
The first few folds/bends #3
Bottom taking shape #1
Bottom taking shape #2
Bottom taking shape #3
Bottom taking shape #4
Bottom taking shape #5
I have 3 main goals with creating my own tank.
#1. More Capacity.
#2. Get rid of that ugly "razor seam" on the bottom of the tank edges.
#3. Get rid of that ugly "hump" on the sides of the tank where it rises well above the frame rails, and make the tank flush with the frame all the way down the side.
I don't know if I'm going to be successful. Or if my tank will look any better than my first two attempts... Wish me luck. And feel free to offer advise/tips.
08-17-2004, 04:31 AM
#2
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
On the SH list sometime ago, there was talk about a guy who had increased the size of his fuel tank. He was selling the tank on ebay; but promised to give the instructions on how to enlarge our tanks after he sold the tank. I think I remember reading the instructions. That might be something to look into.
How much would it cost to get one from Europe? I think the Firestorm comes with a 3liter bigger tank.
How much would it cost to get one from Europe? I think the Firestorm comes with a 3liter bigger tank.
08-17-2004, 07:03 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
3 liters is still just .79 Gallons. I'm hoping to get another 2 gallons out of the tank I'm building. I also want it all to be useable/functional, unlike the stock tank that traps gas in the side pockets.
08-17-2004, 08:37 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Aren't you worried about how that is going to feel between your knees? That is part of what is so endearing about the SH IMHO, how narrow it feels, not to mention the aesthetic concerns brought about by enlarging the tank that much.
But, it sure would be nice to be able to do more than 100-120 miles between fill ups.
But, it sure would be nice to be able to do more than 100-120 miles between fill ups.
08-17-2004, 12:16 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
If you've ever seen the CF tank from CarbonTex/Watanabe, they don't look bad, they look "stock" (other than the fact that they are CF and slighly larger).
I would use the larger tank for "everyday" and longer trips. I'd revert back to the "stock" tank when I wanted to do track days or serious twisty action.
http://home.earthlink.net/~watanabekiyo/vtrpage.htm
I would use the larger tank for "everyday" and longer trips. I'd revert back to the "stock" tank when I wanted to do track days or serious twisty action.
http://home.earthlink.net/~watanabekiyo/vtrpage.htm
08-17-2004, 02:16 PM
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a nice side project, if that is what interests you, but not nearly worth the effort, if you ask me.
I don't find it too troublesome to just pull over every 100 miles or so and fill up. It is good for my *** anyways!
I don't find it too troublesome to just pull over every 100 miles or so and fill up. It is good for my *** anyways!
08-17-2004, 04:33 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
If you've ever seen the CF tank from CarbonTex/Watanabe, they don't look bad, they look "stock" (other than the fact that they are CF and slighly larger).
I would use the larger tank for "everyday" and longer trips. I'd revert back to the "stock" tank when I wanted to do track days or serious twisty action.
http://home.earthlink.net/~watanabekiyo/vtrpage.htm
I would use the larger tank for "everyday" and longer trips. I'd revert back to the "stock" tank when I wanted to do track days or serious twisty action.
http://home.earthlink.net/~watanabekiyo/vtrpage.htm
Good luck and let us know how things go. 8)
08-17-2004, 11:17 PM
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Some of the places I've ridden, there aren't gas stations every 100 miles, so it's a matter of necessity. it's worth the trouble, because I don't have the $1800 for a Carbon Fiber tank!
09-02-2004, 12:47 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Not that I think I could do it, but wouldn't it be easier to split the tank vertically and widen it? eems like you could gain more size with less work that way.
09-02-2004, 06:33 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Well, you couldn't do it right down the center, as that would screw up the fuel filler, and the overflow ring/drain. I suppose you could do it off to each side of the fuel hole/overflow ring (or just one side or the other).
I didn't choose that route for a couple of reasons.
#1. I wanted to remove the 'welded seam' on the bottom edge of the tank. That seam is just ugly to me.
#2. I wanted to remove the "empty hump" on the sides of the tank where the gas tank lifts off the deviates from the frame.
#3. I wanted to add about 2+ gallons. You just couldn't do that splitting the tank vertically, as the tank would be so wide, it would hang over the frame rails by several inches.
So my solution was to build a new tank that made a more efficent use of the available space, but was also larger in nearly every respect (other than front to back length, can't do much about that).
I've gotten more work done, but haven't take any photos lately. I'll post them up over the long weekend, as I'll be doing even more work this weekend.
I didn't choose that route for a couple of reasons.
#1. I wanted to remove the 'welded seam' on the bottom edge of the tank. That seam is just ugly to me.
#2. I wanted to remove the "empty hump" on the sides of the tank where the gas tank lifts off the deviates from the frame.
#3. I wanted to add about 2+ gallons. You just couldn't do that splitting the tank vertically, as the tank would be so wide, it would hang over the frame rails by several inches.
So my solution was to build a new tank that made a more efficent use of the available space, but was also larger in nearly every respect (other than front to back length, can't do much about that).
I've gotten more work done, but haven't take any photos lately. I'll post them up over the long weekend, as I'll be doing even more work this weekend.
10-21-2004, 02:22 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
After my engine work is said and done I'm going to look into adding capacity from the bottom side of the tank in the extra space I created by removing the top 1/2 of the air box .
Random ,
have you looked into this ?
Random ,
have you looked into this ?
10-21-2004, 09:09 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
I thought about this, but our airbox volume isn't that big to start with IMHO. I do think our airbox needs more holes/larger opening. the single opening we have is rather small to feed 1000cc @ 9000 RPM (again, IMHO).
I've modified my airbox lid by cutting out some of the side portions, to allow more air into the top of the airbox. I didn't want to remove any of the airbox volume. To me, it makes a difference at higher RPM with better throttle response from 7000 RPM up, but I will warn folks, it's DAMN LOUD, even at idle. I think part of the reason the airbox is the size/shape it is, and the reason it has such a small opening is to dampen the sound of those 2 500cc cylinders sucking atsmophere.
From looking at the bottom of the stock tank, and the top of the airbox, there just didn't seem to be much "useable" volume to be gained by removing volume from the "top" of the airbox. I'm hoping that by widening the tank out to the framerails, and removing the "hump" where you can see the engine under the tank, and also raising the top decklid about 2" will give me the 2 gallons extra i'm looking for. I've examined the photos of the carbotex tank, and that appears to be what they did.
I've modified my airbox lid by cutting out some of the side portions, to allow more air into the top of the airbox. I didn't want to remove any of the airbox volume. To me, it makes a difference at higher RPM with better throttle response from 7000 RPM up, but I will warn folks, it's DAMN LOUD, even at idle. I think part of the reason the airbox is the size/shape it is, and the reason it has such a small opening is to dampen the sound of those 2 500cc cylinders sucking atsmophere.
From looking at the bottom of the stock tank, and the top of the airbox, there just didn't seem to be much "useable" volume to be gained by removing volume from the "top" of the airbox. I'm hoping that by widening the tank out to the framerails, and removing the "hump" where you can see the engine under the tank, and also raising the top decklid about 2" will give me the 2 gallons extra i'm looking for. I've examined the photos of the carbotex tank, and that appears to be what they did.
03-29-2005, 05:53 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
From looking at the bottom of the stock tank, and the top of the airbox, there just didn't seem to be much "useable" volume to be gained by removing volume from the "top" of the airbox. I'm hoping that by widening the tank out to the framerails, and removing the "hump" where you can see the engine under the tank, and also raising the top decklid about 2" will give me the 2 gallons extra i'm looking for. I've examined the photos of the carbotex tank, and that appears to be what they did.
Thanks,
Fred Z.
03-29-2005, 11:48 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Well to make a long story short, the metal tank was a success, and a failure. While it did indeed hold more than 6 gallons of fuel, it was so but ugly, I just couldn't curse my superhawk with it. (there's more to making a gas tank look purdy than just a hammer and sand bag).
Anyway, I'm almost done with "Version 2" which is a fiberglass version. It was a heck of alot easier to make smooth clean lines, and should be lighter too boot! With my work schedule and Family obligations, I should be done inside of 60 days.
Anyway, I'm almost done with "Version 2" which is a fiberglass version. It was a heck of alot easier to make smooth clean lines, and should be lighter too boot! With my work schedule and Family obligations, I should be done inside of 60 days.
03-30-2005, 05:15 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
One of my VTR-colleagues sent me this:
http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/
The make 21 liter tank for Firestorm....costly upgrade actually - 1100 $
http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/
The make 21 liter tank for Firestorm....costly upgrade actually - 1100 $
03-30-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Well, there is 2 things I like about this tanks - it is NOT CF (few of my friends had quite bad experience with CF tanks - leaks/cracks basically as reaction to vibrations), and they talk about lifetime warranty....unless it is just talk.
And I like fuel tap they offer with it
Now, I should be off to find 1100 bucks myself
And I like fuel tap they offer with it
Now, I should be off to find 1100 bucks myself
03-31-2005, 02:31 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
Sorry - I am a bit confused...here liter is standard measure and I got lost a bit.So. 1997 first-wave Storm have 16 liter tank. I have one of these.
New model have 19 (3,5 liters of wich is reserve) liters tank.
And tank on European VTRs exactly same with US VTRs - old 16 ltr, new 19 ltr.
This FuellCell tank offers 21 liter.
If you make 100 miles (aapr. 160 km) on 16 liter tank it means 10 km per liter, right?
21 liter then gives 210 km - this is healthy range by any means, and if you want to go above 21 liter IMHO you talking different category of bikes, it is way to much weight for where it is stuck on Storm (which already have relatively high gravity center).
I mean - 22 liter is capacity of fuel tank of SuperBlackbird, which is ultimately sport-tourer, not sportbike. So - 21 liter tank on Storm is ust spot on...
At the end of the day if fuel economy is so high on list mayby better to put Varadero carbs onto Storm and it will definitely eat much less (not sure, but I guess it will pull less as well)....just thought...
03-31-2005, 08:51 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
I'd rather cam the engines to get them running more efficient while getting more range via increased fuel economy .
The engine might suck hot air but , if a person could get rid of the airbox , there's mucho room to add volume to the tank from the underside .
I'd kinda like to see someone make a custom intake manifold and stick a 52mm Weber Side Draft on a Super Hawk . Years back I had a built GS750 with dual Weber DCOE's and the accelerator pump helped make big power down low and the front wheel was much lighter after the install .
Fuel mileage sucked but it was getting a car engine size squirt from the pumps on each carb
The engine might suck hot air but , if a person could get rid of the airbox , there's mucho room to add volume to the tank from the underside .
I'd kinda like to see someone make a custom intake manifold and stick a 52mm Weber Side Draft on a Super Hawk . Years back I had a built GS750 with dual Weber DCOE's and the accelerator pump helped make big power down low and the front wheel was much lighter after the install .
Fuel mileage sucked but it was getting a car engine size squirt from the pumps on each carb
04-06-2005, 08:52 AM
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My bike came with a watanabe cf tank as a spare. I used it sparingly and eventually gave up on it after the 2nd pinhole leak... VERY frustrating when about to leave on a long road trip and see gas streaming down the frame!!
I patched it the first time and the second time I posted up on the old runlevelzero list and sold it to Daz in the UK.
I'd never get another, however the Harris aluminum tank seems nice, although I've read of fitment issues.
I patched it the first time and the second time I posted up on the old runlevelzero list and sold it to Daz in the UK.
I'd never get another, however the Harris aluminum tank seems nice, although I've read of fitment issues.
04-06-2005, 09:16 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
I'm testing what is turning out to be a very workable (it's not a simple bolt on tho') and CHEAP (now I got your attention!) solution to this achilles heel problem of our beloved bike.
Since this involves a potentially dangerous situation, I want to thoroughly test it before letting everyone in on it. Please be patient, it should only be a matter of a week or two.
Since this involves a potentially dangerous situation, I want to thoroughly test it before letting everyone in on it. Please be patient, it should only be a matter of a week or two.
04-06-2005, 12:25 PM
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My bike came with a watanabe cf tank as a spare. I used it sparingly and eventually gave up on it after the 2nd pinhole leak... VERY frustrating when about to leave on a long road trip and see gas streaming down the frame!!
I patched it the first time and the second time I posted up on the old runlevelzero list and sold it to Daz in the UK.
I'd never get another, however the Harris aluminum tank seems nice, although I've read of fitment issues.
I patched it the first time and the second time I posted up on the old runlevelzero list and sold it to Daz in the UK.
I'd never get another, however the Harris aluminum tank seems nice, although I've read of fitment issues.
Fuel Cell tanks NOT made of CF, thou it is composite. So - could be solution.
Aluminium one os a DREAM thing...if only I could get myself semiautomatic welding machine and some pressurized reservoir of argon gas I'd make one myself. But
All actually comes down to having some spare bucks
04-06-2005, 12:32 PM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
I'm testing what is turning out to be a very workable (it's not a simple bolt on tho') and CHEAP (now I got your attention!) solution to this achilles heel problem of our beloved bike.
Since this involves a potentially dangerous situation, I want to thoroughly test it before letting everyone in on it. Please be patient, it should only be a matter of a week or two.
Since this involves a potentially dangerous situation, I want to thoroughly test it before letting everyone in on it. Please be patient, it should only be a matter of a week or two.
I am curious thou - did you came to same conclusion as I and went to try for real what I only wanted to try (got not time to play - workload crazy at the moment)
I was thinking of shaped to fit to top of tank kind of "double decker" add-on to top of Storm (sorry - Hawk) tank...removable
04-07-2005, 06:55 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
my guess it that you found another honda tank with similar underside dimensions and you stuck it on there!!
btw, I can keep a secret if you'll just pm me!! ;-) ;-)
btw, I can keep a secret if you'll just pm me!! ;-) ;-)
04-07-2005, 08:37 AM
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Re: Making a Larger Gas Tank
mmmmm....it looks like tank from Interceptor from 04...and VFR800 got 22 liters....and it comes in that black but I did not see it with red decals in black....hmmm.....if you pulled such trick and it will work- man, you are genious, and deserve pleasure to walk to Honda design deparment and slap them on the face! And to be most popular Hawk rider of all years!
Let's hope it works....you got all us so curious.... :wink: crossed fingers....
Let's hope it works....you got all us so curious.... :wink: crossed fingers....
