How much $$$ per HP (increase)?
Thread Starter
Post Whore Junior
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,825
From: Triad, NC
How much $$$ per HP (increase)?
Just wondering. How much should each additional HP cost? First in our bikes, then in a car/truck.. How much money is too much per HP? Is a couple HP worth a couple hundred $$?
For instance:
Cold air intakes.. yes I know, they dont really work as claimed.. that aside, 10hp for $200? Worth it?
K&N filter. Worth it? Same increases as CAI, only $75..
Cat back exhaust.. worth it? $500 .. 5% HP maybe..
"hawk: Jet kit.. $80.. few HP... worth?
I think you see where I'm going with this. Guys dropping hundreds if not thousands for 15-20 hp in our bikes.. is it worth it?
At what point should you say, "no more"?
For instance:
Cold air intakes.. yes I know, they dont really work as claimed.. that aside, 10hp for $200? Worth it?
K&N filter. Worth it? Same increases as CAI, only $75..
Cat back exhaust.. worth it? $500 .. 5% HP maybe..
"hawk: Jet kit.. $80.. few HP... worth?
I think you see where I'm going with this. Guys dropping hundreds if not thousands for 15-20 hp in our bikes.. is it worth it?
At what point should you say, "no more"?
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
Depends on what you're doing. On a big displacement, highly modified car motor the intake and exhaust will hold back other mods. Thus it's somewhat of a no-brainer if you even plan on doing major **** in the future. FYI, the best bang for the buck on my 05 GTO was a simple dyno tune. I gained 23hp/30tq for $500. This also came with the tuner which I can turn around and sell for $250.
On bikes, it really comes down to what bike you're modifying. Frankly, I think it's pointless to try to get more out of the Superhawk motor. BUT....weight reduction has huge potential. Okay then, let's get rid of the 22lb exhaust and replace it with a $500 exhaust that gains 4hp but drops 17lb off the bike. Add it up and you actually net about 7hp because of the weight loss. Cool! But oh crap, now the bike is running lean. Time to rejet. $75 and some dyno time later you have another 2hp under your butt. A fuggit, if you're doing all that may as well drop another $75 filter in there and tune it all at once for the one more horsie.
So, let's sum it all up and see what we have:
7 + 2 + 1 = 10hp gain, or 10% increase
Worth it? That's up to you.
On bikes, it really comes down to what bike you're modifying. Frankly, I think it's pointless to try to get more out of the Superhawk motor. BUT....weight reduction has huge potential. Okay then, let's get rid of the 22lb exhaust and replace it with a $500 exhaust that gains 4hp but drops 17lb off the bike. Add it up and you actually net about 7hp because of the weight loss. Cool! But oh crap, now the bike is running lean. Time to rejet. $75 and some dyno time later you have another 2hp under your butt. A fuggit, if you're doing all that may as well drop another $75 filter in there and tune it all at once for the one more horsie.
So, let's sum it all up and see what we have:
7 + 2 + 1 = 10hp gain, or 10% increase
- Exhaust - $500
- Jet kit - $75
- Filter - $75
- Dyno and shop time - $250(if you're lucky)
- Total - $900
Worth it? That's up to you.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,033
ive hand built and tuned a few intakes for cars, not much for picking up much power but you can tune for gains in certian RPM with tube diameter and length.
As far as ill go on the hawk will be custom built airbox, ram air style. Custom built exhaust. And buy the proper jets to get the AF ratio right. But since I have the tools this will cost less than 100 bucks total.
Hawkrider, have you removed the air turbulance reducer on your gto? its infront of the MAF sensor. The 05 has the LS1 am i correct? You may also be able to bypass the coolant lines flowing to the throttle body to get a more dense intake charge. Ive done a little work on a buddy's 07 model.
As far as ill go on the hawk will be custom built airbox, ram air style. Custom built exhaust. And buy the proper jets to get the AF ratio right. But since I have the tools this will cost less than 100 bucks total.
Hawkrider, have you removed the air turbulance reducer on your gto? its infront of the MAF sensor. The 05 has the LS1 am i correct? You may also be able to bypass the coolant lines flowing to the throttle body to get a more dense intake charge. Ive done a little work on a buddy's 07 model.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
You could ask the same question about the purchase of the vehicle itself. Is it worth it to buy anything with more performance than a Toyota Corolla, or a Kawasaki 250 Ninja?
If you enjoy doing it, and have a few bucks, mod away! I get a great deal of satisfaction from it. I enjoy the project over the long, cold winter.
I should have bought a 600 track bike, for a lot less, already built. But I didn't. Sometimes I question my judgement, but I'm pretty excited about getting my RC.
I don't question somebody else's decision to keep the bike bone stock. But for me, the building is half the fun of owning.
If you enjoy doing it, and have a few bucks, mod away! I get a great deal of satisfaction from it. I enjoy the project over the long, cold winter.
I should have bought a 600 track bike, for a lot less, already built. But I didn't. Sometimes I question my judgement, but I'm pretty excited about getting my RC.
I don't question somebody else's decision to keep the bike bone stock. But for me, the building is half the fun of owning.
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
The GTO has the LS2. Are you referring to the MAF screen? I actually prefer to leave it alone. I got a used K&N CAI for it. I also picked up a used Magnaflow catback last year. As you can see, I like to "recycle" performance car parts. Hell, the exhausts on the VTR, the 1000RR, and the XS750 are all used too. Damn, I guess that makes me a bottom feeder, eh? 
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The GTO has the LS2. Are you referring to the MAF screen? I actually prefer to leave it alone. I got a used K&N CAI for it. I also picked up a used Magnaflow catback last year. As you can see, I like to "recycle" performance car parts. Hell, the exhausts on the VTR, the 1000RR, and the XS750 are all used too. Damn, I guess that makes me a bottom feeder, eh?
Member
Squid
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 30
From: Brooklyn NY
Let's not forget it's not all about #s on a page, I spent $300 to put an Injen cai on my 99 Maxima and the sound alone is worth the price, to say nothing of the snappier throttle response and slightly improved gas mileage, plus I'll never have to buy another air filter. Really it all comes down to what's important to you, if you spend the dough and enjoy what you got for it don't let anyone rain on your parade.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,138
From: Austin, Tx
If we weren't a little bottom feeder and junk yard dog, we'd all be riding Ducati's anyway. I agree, recycle good parts, don't pay a lot and throw off as much excess weight as possible. Spending thousands on a JE piston set and all the goodies and tuning that it requires is not worth the investment.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,548
From: MN
the money is only part of it. I will say the difference in weight loss, and bringing the bike to near 120hp has made way more of a difference than I would have imagined. But, most of the stuff I've done has been a learning experience, and a way to work on the bike, pass the winter, keep involved with this board - that is hard to put a price on. If I didn't do it, I'd have swapped to a different bike with more power, better suspension etc, and it would have cost about the same, then bored with that in a few year, next bike etc etc. This way I've learned something in the process. Cost effective - no way.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
I got my VTR JE pistons used for $50. Take that, bottom feeders!
Dean bought the JE pistons and parts and paid me to do the work on my RC51. I guess that's more like top-feeding. By the time put it on the track, I'll have about $10k in it. Cheaper than a new on. But he already bought the exhaust system and suspension parts.
Can't argue for cost effectiveness, though. We're talking about motorcyles.
Dean bought the JE pistons and parts and paid me to do the work on my RC51. I guess that's more like top-feeding. By the time put it on the track, I'll have about $10k in it. Cheaper than a new on. But he already bought the exhaust system and suspension parts.
Can't argue for cost effectiveness, though. We're talking about motorcyles.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
All the rest of my money has gone into weight reduction (wheels, airbox, bodywork, wirnig harness, etc.).
when I talk to Dean about his bike, his favorite mod, besides the shock ard rear link, is the added torque with pistons and head work. He says it's just magic, and made the bike run the way it is supposed to run.
when I talk to Dean about his bike, his favorite mod, besides the shock ard rear link, is the added torque with pistons and head work. He says it's just magic, and made the bike run the way it is supposed to run.
Thread Starter
Post Whore Junior
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,825
From: Triad, NC
Depends on what you're doing. On a big displacement, highly modified car motor the intake and exhaust will hold back other mods. Thus it's somewhat of a no-brainer if you even plan on doing major **** in the future. FYI, the best bang for the buck on my 05 GTO was a simple dyno tune. I gained 23hp/30tq for $500. This also came with the tuner which I can turn around and sell for $250.
On bikes, it really comes down to what bike you're modifying. Frankly, I think it's pointless to try to get more out of the Superhawk motor. BUT....weight reduction has huge potential. Okay then, let's get rid of the 22lb exhaust and replace it with a $500 exhaust that gains 4hp but drops 17lb off the bike. Add it up and you actually net about 7hp because of the weight loss. Cool! But oh crap, now the bike is running lean. Time to rejet. $75 and some dyno time later you have another 2hp under your butt. A fuggit, if you're doing all that may as well drop another $75 filter in there and tune it all at once for the one more horsie.
So, let's sum it all up and see what we have:
7 + 2 + 1 = 10hp gain, or 10% increase
Worth it? That's up to you.
On bikes, it really comes down to what bike you're modifying. Frankly, I think it's pointless to try to get more out of the Superhawk motor. BUT....weight reduction has huge potential. Okay then, let's get rid of the 22lb exhaust and replace it with a $500 exhaust that gains 4hp but drops 17lb off the bike. Add it up and you actually net about 7hp because of the weight loss. Cool! But oh crap, now the bike is running lean. Time to rejet. $75 and some dyno time later you have another 2hp under your butt. A fuggit, if you're doing all that may as well drop another $75 filter in there and tune it all at once for the one more horsie.
So, let's sum it all up and see what we have:
7 + 2 + 1 = 10hp gain, or 10% increase
- Exhaust - $500
- Jet kit - $75
- Filter - $75
- Dyno and shop time - $250(if you're lucky)
- Total - $900
Worth it? That's up to you.
Greg, did you do a "custom" tune.. or buy a mass marketted tuner like Hypertech?
Does anyone have a general "rule of thumb" for hp/cost ratio in reference to ANY build not just the bikes?... Is there a line where the ratio decreases incrementally til it's just not economically feasable? (ie: first 10 hp or 10% basically free, or maybe couple hundred.. then after that each percent increase cost you twice as much)....
For instance in car stereos.. to double the SPL, you basically have to increase the power by 4.. (ie: start with 100 watts.. to double the volume you'd have to increase the amp to 400 watts.. then to double that you'd have to go to 1600 watts.. etc.)
Last edited by Cleveland; Nov 25, 2008 at 11:55 AM.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
This is not a direct answer. But what I do have is the part #s and cost of all the parts for an engine build, excluding pistons, valves, cams, etc. I think these were 2004 prices.
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 22
I spent nearly all my inharitance on hp mods for my Suberu WRX STi. Man was it killer quick! But 3 months later the engine blew. Was it worth it? Hell Yeah! I’m going to mod up my hawk once my ship comes in here real soon.
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
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