Getting into track days with a SuperHawk
11-04-2012, 11:45 AM
#1
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 40
Getting into track days with a SuperHawk
Hi,
I currently own a Honda Magna 2002 750 and absolutely love her. Have had her for a year and ride her rain, shine, hail, and have put about 5000 miles on her. I am a new rider ... just the Magna under my belt.
I want to up my riding ability and hope to attend the cornerspin and cornerspeed riding schools and do 6-12 trackdays over the course of the next 18 months.
I had planned on replacing my Manga with an sv650 for the said purpose.
Again my motivations are:
1. Have loads of fun
2. Up my riding skills -- I want to feel safe on the road and it is my utmost priority.
3. possibly set myself up for racing in 2014.
4. Do it on a budget -- sadly I am not rich and I also have grad school tuition to take care off
5. Be safe.
6. Use the same bike for commenting to work (roughly 6k miles a year)
7. Tour the roads of our great country (I've just hit my mid life crisis and come to the realization that I've spent all my youth looking at computer screens).
I have come to realize that that a clean superhawk can be had for about a grand less than a clean sv650.
And I'm debating if I a superhawk would serve me for what I want to do, just about as well as an sv650
I'd love to get your thoughts on this subject.
Note I'd also considered:
1. Getting an RC51 but was advised It'd be cleaner to just blow my brains out.
2. a Ninja 250 -- which I thought would be the preferred vehicle to develop cornering skills -- but folks said that after a Magna I'd be bored our of my wits
4. an sv1000 -- which folks said was not really a good bike.
Clarification:
1. I am looking for a bike that will take me through next year 2013 ...
2. If I get into racing I'll might get a different bike
3. So 2013 is: track days, touring, commuting, fun
Cheers!
I currently own a Honda Magna 2002 750 and absolutely love her. Have had her for a year and ride her rain, shine, hail, and have put about 5000 miles on her. I am a new rider ... just the Magna under my belt.
I want to up my riding ability and hope to attend the cornerspin and cornerspeed riding schools and do 6-12 trackdays over the course of the next 18 months.
I had planned on replacing my Manga with an sv650 for the said purpose.
Again my motivations are:
1. Have loads of fun
2. Up my riding skills -- I want to feel safe on the road and it is my utmost priority.
3. possibly set myself up for racing in 2014.
4. Do it on a budget -- sadly I am not rich and I also have grad school tuition to take care off
5. Be safe.
6. Use the same bike for commenting to work (roughly 6k miles a year)
7. Tour the roads of our great country (I've just hit my mid life crisis and come to the realization that I've spent all my youth looking at computer screens).
I have come to realize that that a clean superhawk can be had for about a grand less than a clean sv650.
And I'm debating if I a superhawk would serve me for what I want to do, just about as well as an sv650
I'd love to get your thoughts on this subject.
Note I'd also considered:
1. Getting an RC51 but was advised It'd be cleaner to just blow my brains out.
2. a Ninja 250 -- which I thought would be the preferred vehicle to develop cornering skills -- but folks said that after a Magna I'd be bored our of my wits
4. an sv1000 -- which folks said was not really a good bike.
Clarification:
1. I am looking for a bike that will take me through next year 2013 ...
2. If I get into racing I'll might get a different bike
3. So 2013 is: track days, touring, commuting, fun
Cheers!
Last edited by memmakersorg; 11-04-2012 at 02:40 PM.
11-04-2012, 12:19 PM
#2
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
For racing, get the SV... For road, get the VTR... For both, take your pick...
The RC is a very, very good bike and for track it has got the rest of your list beaten, before you fire it up... But it's certainly not a learners bike in any way... It takes skill to use it's potential... The big SV is kind of porky, and sedate for what it is, and on a track it's not a learners bike at all... It's either go slow, or wring it's neck... The 250 will be good for honing skills, but yeah, it's totally opposite the Magna and the rest... Very sanitised, very wheels in line, and then just screeeam it on the straights...
The RC is a very, very good bike and for track it has got the rest of your list beaten, before you fire it up... But it's certainly not a learners bike in any way... It takes skill to use it's potential... The big SV is kind of porky, and sedate for what it is, and on a track it's not a learners bike at all... It's either go slow, or wring it's neck... The 250 will be good for honing skills, but yeah, it's totally opposite the Magna and the rest... Very sanitised, very wheels in line, and then just screeeam it on the straights...
11-04-2012, 12:50 PM
#3
Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 52
Good question. I think the SV650 is a terrific bike and may be easier to find than a superhawk. As far as I know, there are no "must fix" things like the R/R and CCT on the superhawk. Even the first generation SV650S are great bikes and just like the hawks need suspension upgrades to make them great on the track. Gas mileage is also better by about 10mpg and range of an SV650 is much better than a superhawk. At the end of the day, find a bike that would fit your budget and is in good shape. That will matter more than whether you get a superhawk or an SV650s....
11-04-2012, 08:11 PM
#4
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 213
The SV is a great bike. You can get fuel injection after '02 and the '03 was a one year bike in a few ways. I had a '00 carb bike. It was great, but I always wanted a Hawk. They were too similar to keep both. 50-55 mpg is not hard to do on an SV where 40 mpg is hard to get on a Hawk and its easy to get a lot less. Probably easier to get even better mpg on the FI bike. Insurance is cheaper. It's lighter. Lots of SV parts cheap on Ebay. There are tons of mods for the SV. It will need suspension work but front springs and an Ebay shock can do wonders. The SVRider forum is a wealth of information.
It probably handles better than the Hawk and you would learn more from it.
On the down side it is not near as fast as the Hawk and doesn't sound near as cool, but the tires may last a little longer.
It probably handles better than the Hawk and you would learn more from it.
On the down side it is not near as fast as the Hawk and doesn't sound near as cool, but the tires may last a little longer.
11-05-2012, 07:39 AM
#6
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
There's a pretty big following of SV track riders... like was said, suspension and brakes are the first to upgrade on both bikes. Only using it for the track or would you be taking it on the street too? In terms of consumables (fuel, chain, tires, etc) and aftermarket support the SV won't be more expensive in the long run despite finding it's a grand more right now. But what I'd do is sit on both with the track in mind and that'll help you decide.
I rode an sv1000 and after 5 minutes I knew that I would never own that bike. It's not bad in any particular way, just didn't feel like I had a connection with it. Or some kind of spiritual gibberish like that...
I rode an sv1000 and after 5 minutes I knew that I would never own that bike. It's not bad in any particular way, just didn't feel like I had a connection with it. Or some kind of spiritual gibberish like that...
11-05-2012, 07:39 AM
#7
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 40
Pricing a SuperHawk
Hi,
A superhawk I'm looking at from a young gentleman has the following specs:
1. Relatively clean.
2. No clicking noticeable CCT
3. R&R seems to have been replaced -- it looked different from the factory part.
4. Laid down on the Right hand side ... faring rash and right can had a dent
5. Carbs looked ok
6. Everything else checked out
7. She's a 1998
8. 36,000 miles on her.
9. Tires good
10. No leaks on the forks
11. Didn't know enough about the rear suspension
12. not cold blooded
13. Images attached
14. He has the under engine faring
15. Some oil staining on the bottom of the engine oil pan ... where u open the blot to drain the oild.
16. Break looked good
17. Break fluid clear
What would be, in your opinion:
1. Fair price
2. Fire sale price
Thanks in advance.
A superhawk I'm looking at from a young gentleman has the following specs:
1. Relatively clean.
2. No clicking noticeable CCT
3. R&R seems to have been replaced -- it looked different from the factory part.
4. Laid down on the Right hand side ... faring rash and right can had a dent
5. Carbs looked ok
6. Everything else checked out
7. She's a 1998
8. 36,000 miles on her.
9. Tires good
10. No leaks on the forks
11. Didn't know enough about the rear suspension
12. not cold blooded
13. Images attached
14. He has the under engine faring
15. Some oil staining on the bottom of the engine oil pan ... where u open the blot to drain the oild.
16. Break looked good
17. Break fluid clear
What would be, in your opinion:
1. Fair price
2. Fire sale price
Thanks in advance.
11-05-2012, 07:51 AM
#8
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
I'd probably pay 2K, depending on how bad the rash/dent is.
FYI, the CCT won't give a warning, it'll just go out and destroy your motor. I'd consider it a "must replace" part on every used bike, even with 1000 original miles, unless manual ones are already installed. But a pair of them will only cost you 100 bucks. It's not a huge cost, but it could save you a bunch of headache in the future.
FYI, the CCT won't give a warning, it'll just go out and destroy your motor. I'd consider it a "must replace" part on every used bike, even with 1000 original miles, unless manual ones are already installed. But a pair of them will only cost you 100 bucks. It's not a huge cost, but it could save you a bunch of headache in the future.
11-05-2012, 08:05 AM
#10
Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 52
I agree that $2000 is about fair for that year and condition. I paid $1600 for a 1998 with 31k miles that looked to be in worse condition. My understanding is that CCT does take a few hours to change.
11-05-2012, 12:35 PM
#11
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
For a skilled mechanic it should take less than two hours of shoptime if you are paying for it... If it takes more, he's out behind the shop texting his gf instead... I'm fairly slow compared to a pro, and I can do it in roughly 2 hours...
11-13-2012, 10:45 PM
#12
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 40
ya, she's not a prom queen by any stretch of the imagination but when I got back into motorcycling after more years than I can count she's been a bucket of fun and generally very forgiving for the handful of times I've gotten myself self onto the Darwin Awards Nominee list.
I do agree, I'm never confident with her the breaks.
Today I rode a few hundred miles on her to see 3 superhawks and if it all goes well I'll be getting one of em tomorrow :-).
My ride back was 80 miles I think though a cold cold dark night -- she was playful and loads of fun. It was just me, her, the occasional cager, aloof stars, the harsh cold dark night, the classy growl of her V4 -- even though I was not dressed for the occassion it was a night, I hope I'll remember for many years to come.
I do agree, I'm never confident with her the breaks.
Today I rode a few hundred miles on her to see 3 superhawks and if it all goes well I'll be getting one of em tomorrow :-).
My ride back was 80 miles I think though a cold cold dark night -- she was playful and loads of fun. It was just me, her, the occasional cager, aloof stars, the harsh cold dark night, the classy growl of her V4 -- even though I was not dressed for the occassion it was a night, I hope I'll remember for many years to come.
11-22-2012, 03:49 PM
#13
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,015
Go with SV650S 04 or later. 03 first year for FI but there were some reported crank problems on 03 year only. Gsxr 600/750 front end bolts directly on the bike as well as several model rear shocks bolt on with slight battery box mod and different battery. I have both vtr and sv650s and hands down no question sv is better street and track bike. Lighter, sit lower in the saddle, turns better, and FI. The motors are rock solid and the sv rails on track.
11-29-2012, 10:10 AM
#14
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pompano Beach, Fl.
Posts: 273
Track Bike
For racing, get the SV... For road, get the VTR... For both, take your pick...
The RC is a very, very good bike and for track it has got the rest of your list beaten, before you fire it up... But it's certainly not a learners bike in any way... It takes skill to use it's potential... The big SV is kind of porky, and sedate for what it is, and on a track it's not a learners bike at all... It's either go slow, or wring it's neck... The 250 will be good for honing skills, but yeah, it's totally opposite the Magna and the rest... Very sanitised, very wheels in line, and then just screeeam it on the straights...
The RC is a very, very good bike and for track it has got the rest of your list beaten, before you fire it up... But it's certainly not a learners bike in any way... It takes skill to use it's potential... The big SV is kind of porky, and sedate for what it is, and on a track it's not a learners bike at all... It's either go slow, or wring it's neck... The 250 will be good for honing skills, but yeah, it's totally opposite the Magna and the rest... Very sanitised, very wheels in line, and then just screeeam it on the straights...
. So he bought the v-twin Hawk and sent it to GMD in Ft. Lauderdale for the mods noted below. He's cop, not a tuner and didn't want to mess with the carbs to make it right and that's how I ended up with it. He bought a sv1000s so he could just PC it and have a merry old time. He also sent that one to GMD. I found in the Hawk a BMC race filter and DJ slide springs and stock everything else. Well, that's all fixed now and I e-mailed him to update all. He no longer tracks the sv1000s and said "ACTUALLY, THE HAWK IS A MUCH BETTER TRACK BIKE", but didn't ride either one on the streets. He has a VTX1800 for that. Well his new track bike is, are you ready for this (?) a 2011 ZX10R and it chopped 7 seconds off his lap time. Guess he's not too worried about low sides now but in his opinion the HAWK is a better track bike than the sv1000s and there you have it. I think he's in the expert class, too.
11-29-2012, 04:25 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ottawa Ontario
Posts: 142
I'll toss in my two cents since I own both and I have tracked the SV and plan to track the hawk. Both The SV650s and hawk can hit the track with very few upgrades.. you want to be first around the track that's another story! But if you want to ride with a smile on your face very little is needed. The front springs on both bikes are sub par.. swap out the spring and for the SV you can get cheap emulators (Debrix $30) that make the performance very close to a cartridge forks. (for springs check out Sonic springs ~$80 for the pair).
Rear shock.. ya it sucks, on both.. but you can run for a few track days here an there and enjoy the day. I put a GSXR rear shock on my SV and it was a huge improvement.. the race boys will say it sucks. but for my purposes it was just fine.
So is the SV a great "learn to track bike" in my opinion YES!! the best you can get I would say.. the twin is so forgiving when you enter a corner a gear above or below where you should be you still ride right out no problem and the power is so predictable I don't think you could ever slip the rear by hammering it to hard and mods!! WOW!! there is a list a mile long on the forum and best of all they have all been tested again and again so you know what your getting before you do it.
So why did I "Upgrade" to the hawk. I wanted more GO!! the little SV is fantastic bike you can flick it around the track or the road like it's nothing! definitely easier then the hawk! not to say the hawk is bad it's great but a 423lbs wet weight of the SV wow it's light! if you want to play get an SV! they are fun! if your buddies are twisting there wrist and leaving you behind... well no replacement for displacement! that’s why I bought the hawk and no regrets! it won't take a CBR but it will keep up to them just fine!
couple more comments as the ride group tends to trade our bikes with each other often.. the CBR954 and the like, don't get rolling until the RPM does! I didn't much care for it.. if my buddy took a jump on me I had to drop two gears on the 954 from my cruising gear to snap onto his tail.. now when you do this it's a rush like nothing I have felt before! but the hawk has power on tap at all RPM's I found this more useful for street riding.. if I was at the track all the time I would be ok with holding the RPM over 10 all day but not on the street.. ok this is getting long.. if you have any questions.. feel free to PM me.
Rear shock.. ya it sucks, on both.. but you can run for a few track days here an there and enjoy the day. I put a GSXR rear shock on my SV and it was a huge improvement.. the race boys will say it sucks. but for my purposes it was just fine.
So is the SV a great "learn to track bike" in my opinion YES!! the best you can get I would say.. the twin is so forgiving when you enter a corner a gear above or below where you should be you still ride right out no problem and the power is so predictable I don't think you could ever slip the rear by hammering it to hard and mods!! WOW!! there is a list a mile long on the forum and best of all they have all been tested again and again so you know what your getting before you do it.
So why did I "Upgrade" to the hawk. I wanted more GO!! the little SV is fantastic bike you can flick it around the track or the road like it's nothing! definitely easier then the hawk! not to say the hawk is bad it's great but a 423lbs wet weight of the SV wow it's light! if you want to play get an SV! they are fun! if your buddies are twisting there wrist and leaving you behind... well no replacement for displacement! that’s why I bought the hawk and no regrets! it won't take a CBR but it will keep up to them just fine!
couple more comments as the ride group tends to trade our bikes with each other often.. the CBR954 and the like, don't get rolling until the RPM does! I didn't much care for it.. if my buddy took a jump on me I had to drop two gears on the 954 from my cruising gear to snap onto his tail.. now when you do this it's a rush like nothing I have felt before! but the hawk has power on tap at all RPM's I found this more useful for street riding.. if I was at the track all the time I would be ok with holding the RPM over 10 all day but not on the street.. ok this is getting long.. if you have any questions.. feel free to PM me.
11-30-2012, 01:31 AM
#16
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
I'll toss in my two cents since I own both and I have tracked the SV and plan to track the hawk. Both The SV650s and hawk can hit the track with very few upgrades.. you want to be first around the track that's another story! But if you want to ride with a smile on your face very little is needed. The front springs on both bikes are sub par.. swap out the spring and for the SV you can get cheap emulators (Debrix $30) that make the performance very close to a cartridge forks. (for springs check out Sonic springs ~$80 for the pair).
Rear shock.. ya it sucks, on both.. but you can run for a few track days here an there and enjoy the day. I put a GSXR rear shock on my SV and it was a huge improvement.. the race boys will say it sucks. but for my purposes it was just fine.
So is the SV a great "learn to track bike" in my opinion YES!! the best you can get I would say.. the twin is so forgiving when you enter a corner a gear above or below where you should be you still ride right out no problem and the power is so predictable I don't think you could ever slip the rear by hammering it to hard and mods!! WOW!! there is a list a mile long on the forum and best of all they have all been tested again and again so you know what your getting before you do it.
So why did I "Upgrade" to the hawk. I wanted more GO!! the little SV is fantastic bike you can flick it around the track or the road like it's nothing! definitely easier then the hawk! not to say the hawk is bad it's great but a 423lbs wet weight of the SV wow it's light! if you want to play get an SV! they are fun! if your buddies are twisting there wrist and leaving you behind... well no replacement for displacement! that’s why I bought the hawk and no regrets! it won't take a CBR but it will keep up to them just fine!
couple more comments as the ride group tends to trade our bikes with each other often.. the CBR954 and the like, don't get rolling until the RPM does! I didn't much care for it.. if my buddy took a jump on me I had to drop two gears on the 954 from my cruising gear to snap onto his tail.. now when you do this it's a rush like nothing I have felt before! but the hawk has power on tap at all RPM's I found this more useful for street riding.. if I was at the track all the time I would be ok with holding the RPM over 10 all day but not on the street.. ok this is getting long.. if you have any questions.. feel free to PM me.
Rear shock.. ya it sucks, on both.. but you can run for a few track days here an there and enjoy the day. I put a GSXR rear shock on my SV and it was a huge improvement.. the race boys will say it sucks. but for my purposes it was just fine.
So is the SV a great "learn to track bike" in my opinion YES!! the best you can get I would say.. the twin is so forgiving when you enter a corner a gear above or below where you should be you still ride right out no problem and the power is so predictable I don't think you could ever slip the rear by hammering it to hard and mods!! WOW!! there is a list a mile long on the forum and best of all they have all been tested again and again so you know what your getting before you do it.
So why did I "Upgrade" to the hawk. I wanted more GO!! the little SV is fantastic bike you can flick it around the track or the road like it's nothing! definitely easier then the hawk! not to say the hawk is bad it's great but a 423lbs wet weight of the SV wow it's light! if you want to play get an SV! they are fun! if your buddies are twisting there wrist and leaving you behind... well no replacement for displacement! that’s why I bought the hawk and no regrets! it won't take a CBR but it will keep up to them just fine!
couple more comments as the ride group tends to trade our bikes with each other often.. the CBR954 and the like, don't get rolling until the RPM does! I didn't much care for it.. if my buddy took a jump on me I had to drop two gears on the 954 from my cruising gear to snap onto his tail.. now when you do this it's a rush like nothing I have felt before! but the hawk has power on tap at all RPM's I found this more useful for street riding.. if I was at the track all the time I would be ok with holding the RPM over 10 all day but not on the street.. ok this is getting long.. if you have any questions.. feel free to PM me.
The VTR has a very similar behaviour but it's plain and simple larger and heavier...
You don't need to mod any of the two for track, but it's fun...
I have yet to own a bike for more than a week before I start taking it apart and rebuilding it...
11-30-2012, 06:41 AM
#18
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
I have put CF covers on my engine cases, that takes care of minor spills, wears on those instead of the metal when sliding... And a pair of T-Rex crash protectors helps for the rads, fairings and frame, but yeah, it's not hard to damage something... My modded bike have made it unscaved, but the VTR trackbike has visited the gravel more than once, and the same for my SV...
11-30-2012, 08:25 AM
#19
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
I am late to this thread but mem, my 2 cents is if you want a track bike get an SV. I have 2 vtrs on the street but have raced an SV in CCS events expert for like 4-5yrs now as well as instructed ducati school with it.
The sv has way more support as a race/track bike in that tons of guys go fast on em and they go faster easier. Everyone knows how to set em up (I run ohlins shock and race tech front) but I would recommend the earlier carb'd ones. Super cheap and they routinely beat the new ones at NJ and NH where I race.
The sv has way more support as a race/track bike in that tons of guys go fast on em and they go faster easier. Everyone knows how to set em up (I run ohlins shock and race tech front) but I would recommend the earlier carb'd ones. Super cheap and they routinely beat the new ones at NJ and NH where I race.
11-30-2012, 07:50 PM
#20
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 40
Many Thanks for all the input
Hi guys,
Many thanks for all the input.
I have gotten a Superhawk for now and she is loads of fun on the street.
I'm still looking for an SV, figure I could sell my Magna and keep both the SV and Superhawk.
So the carbed SVs are better eh -- I've never ridden a fuel injected bike and am kinda smiling to hear that ... love carbs ... just takes em a while to warm up in the winter :-)
Thanks MM.
Many thanks for all the input.
I have gotten a Superhawk for now and she is loads of fun on the street.
I'm still looking for an SV, figure I could sell my Magna and keep both the SV and Superhawk.
So the carbed SVs are better eh -- I've never ridden a fuel injected bike and am kinda smiling to hear that ... love carbs ... just takes em a while to warm up in the winter :-)
Thanks MM.
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11-20-2009 03:26 AM
