31 set and counting......Dr Honda any updates?

Yesterday at 11:59am Post #56

Yes.

Sorry, got tied up with an emergency. Not mine... a customer. (good money when that happens)


OK... here's the deal. I got the report back from my test fitter that there were a few issues. But, then I was informed by a few other people that the flange must be trimmed (by the installer) to make clearance for the air box stuff.

My test fitter sent a factory stack to me to get measurements from. (thanks for your help so far) As far as I can see... the base of the stack, to the flange (mounting point is correct, and so is the tapper, and OD of the part that goes into the carbs. My only concern (Before I go into production) is the lip that is about mid way between the tapper, and the mount. (pic below) Since I didn't make the CAD model, and since I don't have a bike in my shop... I don't know if this is a problem. I was thinking that it may be hitting the plastic airbox.

Should I cut this down? Should I round it off??


If some one with the original group buy can let me know... that would be great. OR... if there is anyone in the Pittsburgh area that will let me do some test fitting... that would be even better.


Does anyone have a picture of the original stacks, not mounted into the bike? (So I can see the base)

Sorry this is taking so long. I just don't want to make up 31 sets, and then have to scrap them because they won't fit.



Attachment 27331



The Lip in question.....


Attachment 27332

Not sure if this is one of them, but it's worth a shot: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=21099

No pics, but trust me, if you followed the measurements on the drawing, it will fit... There is a lip on the stacks I have, and it's there on the drawing... Mine sits with about 4-5 mm to spare in the neck...

The only "issue" is that we choose to have the stacks made without cutting out the ears, on our run, saving on worktime/cost/complexity... DIY style... Since you are selling a bolt-on product it's a fairly good idea to eliminate that... But other than that, stick to the drawing and it's going to fit... ;)

I think I'm going to have to just trust the CAD drawing sent to me.


OK... here's the deal. I ordered a stiffer boring bar, (I tried to use steel, but I got chatter on the inside) and it should be here in a few days. So... early next week, I will produce a couple finished sets. I will sell them to the first couple people who want them. Then, those people can verify, and hopefully post a couple pics of what will need trimmed to fit. If that goes well... I will make enough for everyone on the list, plus a few extras to have on the shelf for the guys holding back.


So... I guess we will have the first ones for sale, next week.

Put me on the short list. I have a multitude of measuring devices and high res cameras.

RWhisen is #1


How about one more?

I'm on the long list, funds not available next week. The following week for sure though.

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I am willing to be #2 (I am in Australia so postage time is normally 10 days)
If there is someone who is more local I don't mind if you put me down the list.

That lip won't let the billet stack sit flush with the carb throat, but it does appear in this thread that the HP Power ones have the same ridge. I figured that since the stock ones sat flush, the HP/billet ones should too.

Sorry, but wrong... They do sit flush... Read from post #51 to get the full picture, and note the difference between "flange/ring" and "ridge/lip" or whatever people call them...

Sorry Tweety, but the ones from Dr Honda didn't sit flush. That ring (with the Sharpie arrows) kept it from going all the way down into the carb throat. I tested it. The mounting ring didn't touch where the nuts where the stock ones bolt in either, it was off by ~4mm.

I am assuming it's not supposed to be that way, but can you confirm that? I'm assuming that the billet stacks should sit all the way into the carb just like the stocker, and that the outer mounting flange should rest on the stock nuts, just like the stock ones.

Seems to make the most sense. Maybe the throat is too long?

No, the throat is the same length as the stock piece, but that ridge prevents it from seating all the way.

I'm guessing you where the test fitter then?

Well, if you read the conversation I had with Dr.Honda I pointed out that the ring with the mounting holes hit the breather part of the airbox on the front one and the support for the oil catch lines on the rear, making them sit wonky... So with the ring intact around the full perimeter you wont get them seated, and it has nothing to to with that lower ridge... You won't know if that hits or not until you take a file to the ring...

If the measurements on the drawing was followed, and you remove some material on the ring it seats with 1-2 mm to spare on that lip and the same cleararance to the top of the bolts... Just like it's supposed to... The best way to know is that when seated and you look inside the stack the stack sits flush with a thin line only in the seam of the carb and not "hanging" with room to spare... What the clearance is then on the outside is irrelevant...

There is no reason for it to actually touch the boltheads, the only reason the stock is made to cover them is to prevent you from damaging stuff by unbolting the airbox and lifting without having unbolted the stacks... And I also believe the reason for the small tabs is to have open air around the jets...

So like I suggested leaving the ring at the sides with the boltholes and removing it entirely on the other two sides makes it clear all obstacles and opens up around the jets...

Yes

I did, and it doesn't matter if it hits the supports in the front, it doesn't fit all the way down in the rear slot either, which had no restrictions.

This is what I'm talking about, there is a gap between the bottom of the stack and the top of the inner carb throat.

The pictures below may help illustrate my concern, sorry in advance for the blurry pics.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2077yoi.jpg
Without stack installed, the stock ones sit flush against this lip.
http://i50.tinypic.com/152hzdf.jpg
Blurry, but you can tell there is about a 4mm gap.
http://i49.tinypic.com/n4i49i.jpg
Same as previous, a sizable gap when installed in the front carb.

Tweety, do your stacks have the same gap when installed? I think the outer ridge on the stack from Dr Honda could easily be eliminated and make them sit flush against the carb throat.

I'll take the #2 spot on the short list if you want. :cool:

Hum... My stacks sit flush with that ridge when installed... However they would not have gotten close until I removed part of the ring... And if I just drop them on there they do not sit flush, there would be a about a 1 mm gap... A light to medium pressure and they slide down to the ridge, tighthening the bolts until the end of the thread, without forcing it, is all it takes... Then there is no gap, it sits too tight for me to get my nail in...

Now I can't say for sure if yours would have behaved the same had you put them there and bolted them in, but if the ridge and taper is at the measurements in the drawings, then they should like mine be a tight fit, but fit in there once the interference of the ring is removed and you put the bolts in...

In the front carb, it's impossble to get them down unless you remove material on the ring, which you evidently never did... So don't judge the fit based on that... On the rear I'm not 100% sure but I believe the ring made contact with the support for the hose running between the carb troaths, tilting it slightly and binding, so that should be the same...

Since it's impossble to be 100% sure, I'd say the only way to know is to testfit without the ring interfering and with bolts in place... Like the bike is intended to run... But I'm 99% sure that they will fit, since the measurements should be the same as mine...

ATTN: Dr. Honda
 

I have my airbox open for some fettlin', so I did a few measurements.
If the info helps, cool.

Here's a shot of the rear cylinder carburetor throat.
Note the 3 areas where the base of the airbox covers a portion of the carb inlet surface. This may be where there is some interference with the shoulder above the base of the velocity stack.

The thickness of the airbox base to the carb inlet face is 5.5mm, the depth of the taper in the carb body, from the carb inlet face to where the stack should seat is 13.7mm. (measurements made with a Mitutoyo depth micrometer)

If the taper to the shoulder you have arrowed in your pic was 19.2mm, or a bit more, from the base of the stack I believe you would be in business.

Attachment 27326


Rex

No, I was able to lightly force the stack in, and letting the outer ring bend the center plastic hose support to fit.

This one didn't, like I said before.

They fit in the carb throats, they just don't sit all the way down and I wasn't going to force them down because it feels like that solid ridge is preventing them from going down any farther. I would have loved to install them with bolts, but I didn't want to start drilling holes without his permission, and it struck me as odd that it didn't fit all the way down, so I didn't go any further.

Attachment 27324

Look at this pic (not mine)

Bottom left on the front stack... It makes contact with the breather box... Also makes contact with the support for the middle hose... Gets wedged in and will never ever sit straight or flush unless the ring is cut at both places... And if it's not straight in the throat it wont go all the way down since it will bind or hang on the plastic lip, like bjorn commented... Dunno exact what parts hit where, but its probably wise not to force it...

So disregard this for fitment until ring is cut... End of that discussion as far as I'm concerned... I'll gladly discuss fitment when tested without the ring interfering, but other than that it's a moot point...

Rear carb... If it's not hitting anything, possible, I don't remember... It should be snug, needing a bit of pressure to go all the way down, like I said not really forcing it, just a little pressure... If that's not the case it could be the lip or the taper being off... But with both according to spec from the drawing, they will sit all the way down, no 4 mm gap, just a line... At the most a gap enough to wedge in my nail...

As for the ring not making contact with the outer screw heads... Probably a good thing as it would likely rattle otherwise...

Tweety, I've tried to tell you that I'm not talking about fitment in the front carb. The mounting ring doesn't contact anything in the rear carb, but the ridge still keeps it from sitting all the way in. I'm not sure how I can try to make it clearer.

Hi Guys,

Sorry I got an argument going... but that's why we are going to make a couple sets and try them.

This morning, I double checked all the critical dimensions, and they are within a couple thousandths of an in to the drawing sent to me. Even by the stock stack sent to me... it should have fit. (disregarding airbox issues)

I'll make a post where they are ready. Right now, I have Ninja 250 Rearset adjusters coming off my mill. Got to get back to them.

Oh I wouldn't say it's an argument...;) So far we are discussing...;) And hopefully it's atleast halfway productive...

That's kind of what I was thinking. The drawing, and my part have that lip at 16mm to the base. I was kind of thinking that it may grab inside the plastic of the airbox.

I may just add a second tapper to it, to give the air box base a little more clearance.


This would be so much easier if I had a bike in my shop.

MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE: no one cares how long it takes at these prices dr. ;;; any;)body near the pit of penn can help?

i used to be a delaware fag so i can crack on the ne w/ impunity...:shock:

Sorry for noobie question, but am I going to need to retune when I put these stacks in?

I have a jet kit, ignition advancer and sports filter ready to go into my bike and will be getting a dynotune when I do put them in. Do I need to wait til I get the stacks before I do this (only want to pay for one dynotune), or will it be negligible and no retune necessary? (Like I said - noobie)

thanks for any advice.

one set for me please !! pending a post with estimated cost.....hint hint Mr.Honda