CBR 600 caliper swap question
01-22-2010, 07:56 AM
#1
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 325
CBR 600 caliper swap question
ok guys i have done quite a bit of research on here and just to get this straight the cbr 600 f4i are ALMOST a direct bolt on? and does it matter the year of the cbr? or are they pretty much the same the whole way through? and also would i benefit from putting on SS lines AFTER i do the caliper swap or is that enough to anti up the brakes on the SH? one more thing if i do the caliper swap do i need a new MC to go along with it? or does the SH master make the cut?
thanks guys let me know
thanks guys let me know
01-22-2010, 08:13 AM
#3
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
I would start with the calipers, MC and brakepads. Yruyur did that and kept his stock lines and I can't tell much difference between his bike and mine with the same plus stainless lines and larger rotors.
edit: And F4i is F4i when it comes to brakes as far as I have found, no difference year to year.
edit: And F4i is F4i when it comes to brakes as far as I have found, no difference year to year.
01-22-2010, 08:47 AM
#4
New boy
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 25
I am part way through the same swap right now, just cleaning the pistons, inspecting the seals and servicing the calipers before fitting with new EBC HH pads.
I will be using both the Caliper & MC from the F4i, but using the SS lines I already had on the standard set up.
I did some calcs of the leverage advantage that each Caliper and MC option gives, and put it on the UK Firestorm Forum....follow this link.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15494
Not sure you can see the table in the posts if you are not registered, so if thats a problem tell me and I will post on here as well
The standard MC is smaller than the F4i, so although it will work, and it will improve the hydraulic leverage ratio [which is normally a good thing], you will have much more lever travel, and this may make the brakes feel less powerfull. The extra losses from standard hoses will only make it worse.
Suggestion is to get the MC from the F4i as this will give same leverage ratio as std Superhawk, so the lever feel will be normal, but braking power will be improved by the bigger calipers and the improved pads.
After that the SS lines will be a "nice to have"
I will be using both the Caliper & MC from the F4i, but using the SS lines I already had on the standard set up.
I did some calcs of the leverage advantage that each Caliper and MC option gives, and put it on the UK Firestorm Forum....follow this link.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15494
Not sure you can see the table in the posts if you are not registered, so if thats a problem tell me and I will post on here as well
The standard MC is smaller than the F4i, so although it will work, and it will improve the hydraulic leverage ratio [which is normally a good thing], you will have much more lever travel, and this may make the brakes feel less powerfull. The extra losses from standard hoses will only make it worse.
Suggestion is to get the MC from the F4i as this will give same leverage ratio as std Superhawk, so the lever feel will be normal, but braking power will be improved by the bigger calipers and the improved pads.
After that the SS lines will be a "nice to have"
01-22-2010, 09:27 AM
#6
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MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
Lines are optional, since I assume your bike has brake lines on it already that are nicely attached at the triple. The F4i ones might be too short (I don't recall) and they do route differently. (I do remember that)
01-22-2010, 09:30 AM
#7
New boy
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 25
Bearshawk.....yes, that all you need.
I got the complete set already assembled off the doner bike [calipers, lines and MC, with good pads & lever], and if I hadnt wanted to put the SS lines on, I would have been very tempted to try and fit with the F4i lines and not even split the system.
I got the complete set already assembled off the doner bike [calipers, lines and MC, with good pads & lever], and if I hadnt wanted to put the SS lines on, I would have been very tempted to try and fit with the F4i lines and not even split the system.
01-22-2010, 09:41 AM
#8
New boy
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 25
I didnt try it so I dont know if it would work out. As you say, the safe option is to reuse the standard Hawk pipes.
I would advise fitting new copper washers when you refit the lines, but I noted that the Honda washers on the F4i look like steel parts, So they are not designed to crush and maybe ok to re-use.
I tend to play safe where brakes are concerned, so put new washers on.
01-22-2010, 10:48 AM
#9
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: N.E. oHIo
Posts: 263
I just finished up the install of CBR F4i calipers on the CheeperHawk, so here's some pics. I'm using handlebars instead of clip-ons, but the basic stuff is the same.
Here's the handlebar view. I used Spiegler lines, a 29" for the right caliper and a 31" for the left. The lines have a 20 degree bend at the caliper ends and are straight at the M/C end. The clutch line is 44" and has 20 degree bends at both ends.
These shots show the trimming done on the lower caliper mount bracket to allow the caliper bolt holes to line up correctly. I recommend removing material from the fork leg and not from the caliper body. There is plenty of metal remaining on the fork leg when the grinding is done.
Holding a flashlight under the caliper and bracket will give you a good view of the clearance while you are shaping the lower mount. As long as there is no contact between the caliper body and the mount bracket, you are good to go.
The 3rd pic is the die grinder and the 3M pad I used to make the needed clearance.
Here's a couple of shots of the Siegler lines on the clutch and rear brake.
Next part of the project will be modifying the exhaust for a 2 into 1 set up.
Rex
Here's the handlebar view. I used Spiegler lines, a 29" for the right caliper and a 31" for the left. The lines have a 20 degree bend at the caliper ends and are straight at the M/C end. The clutch line is 44" and has 20 degree bends at both ends.
These shots show the trimming done on the lower caliper mount bracket to allow the caliper bolt holes to line up correctly. I recommend removing material from the fork leg and not from the caliper body. There is plenty of metal remaining on the fork leg when the grinding is done.
Holding a flashlight under the caliper and bracket will give you a good view of the clearance while you are shaping the lower mount. As long as there is no contact between the caliper body and the mount bracket, you are good to go.
The 3rd pic is the die grinder and the 3M pad I used to make the needed clearance.
Here's a couple of shots of the Siegler lines on the clutch and rear brake.
Next part of the project will be modifying the exhaust for a 2 into 1 set up.
Rex
01-22-2010, 02:57 PM
#11
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: N.E. oHIo
Posts: 263
lazn, your point is well taken. BUT, with the mechanical ability level of the folks on this (or any other moto-related) board ranging from; "I rebuilt my engine on lunch break today.", to; "Yeah, I can get my seat off all by myself.", I would never recommend grinding on the caliper.
Sure as ****, some Saturday afternoon seat lifter would grind the caliper to the point where he has about .1mm metal left before hitting the piston bore.
Just my $.02
YMMV
Rex
Sure as ****, some Saturday afternoon seat lifter would grind the caliper to the point where he has about .1mm metal left before hitting the piston bore.
Just my $.02
YMMV
Rex
01-22-2010, 04:38 PM
#12
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SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posts: 963
Grinding the caliper also changes the position of the brake pads relative to the disk too. I noticed this on my bike, as now there is a small section of disk that is not touched by the pad, right near the edge. I do not have standard rotors though, so this may be the difference in my case.
01-24-2010, 10:02 AM
#13
New boy
Squid
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 25
Grinding the caliper also changes the position of the brake pads relative to the disk too. I noticed this on my bike, as now there is a small section of disk that is not touched by the pad, right near the edge. I do not have standard rotors though, so this may be the difference in my case.
If you grind metal off either the caliper or the Fork mount, it wont make any difference to the position of the caliper with respect to the disc, as neither option changes the position of the bolt holes in the respective parts.
The metal removal is only to give clearance to the bigger caliper bodies, as the CBR600 has much less aluminium surrounding the lower mounting bolt on the fork, even though the bolts are in the same place.
The CBR pads may have a slightly different position over the disc, and that could be what you are seeing, but there was nothing you did in your fitting process that would have had any effect on that, so no need to think you should have modded the fork rather than the caliper.
I followed lazn's advice and took a little off each part using a Dremel sanding drum. about 1mm off the caliper, and 1.5 to 2 mm off the fork mount.
, cheap!
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