CABLE UPGRADE FOR CLUTCH?
01-11-2009, 12:22 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: orlando,fl
Posts: 16
CABLE UPGRADE FOR CLUTCH?
Has anyone converted their bike from hydraulic to a cable clutch?I saw a piece on ebay awhile back to do this but didn't know what the benefits would really be.I know that if you try to launch a SH off the line with a hydraulic clutch it has a violent reaction.So other than that what would be the benefit of changing it?Cables stretch,but fluid does not.Is it really worth the 200+ dollars to change it???
01-11-2009, 12:56 PM
#4
Honducati
SuperSport
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 809
I don't see any point to change to a cable operated clutch. I would think that a hydraulically operated clutch would be smoother with a lighter pull. The only benefit that I can see in a cable would be lighter weight, ie; you are racing and you are trying to save every gram. JMO
01-11-2009, 12:58 PM
#5
Administrator
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
Has anyone converted their bike from hydraulic to a cable clutch?I saw a piece on ebay awhile back to do this but didn't know what the benefits would really be.I know that if you try to launch a SH off the line with a hydraulic clutch it has a violent reaction.So other than that what would be the benefit of changing it?Cables stretch,but fluid does not.Is it really worth the 200+ dollars to change it???
If your having problems with your OEM clutch action,, It's not the type of system. Rebuild the MC, and slave Cyl, add some fresh fluid, bleed the system of all air. It will be as linear as any cable actuation can be,with a smoother pull and release. The Hyd set up has plenty of travel is very controllable when in good working order. I've worked on two SH clutch systems now not including my own.
All three went from vague and hard to use to very nice and controllable after rebuild.
01-11-2009, 01:44 PM
#6
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
The reason for using a cable operated clutch on race bikes are simple... No need to worry about operating temps... plain and simple reason... the clutch is next to the engine block... not a good environment at full tilt for lap after lap...
Unless you plan to do a stint on WSB it's completely redundant to swap... SS lines and a good bleed or worst case re-build the cylinder and you are good to go...
Unless you plan to do a stint on WSB it's completely redundant to swap... SS lines and a good bleed or worst case re-build the cylinder and you are good to go...
11-05-2009, 04:41 AM
#9
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: thorold ontario
Posts: 1,978
as mentioned by the original poster, the hydralic lcutch makes launching the hawk a bit harder according to the magazine article i read about. something about some clutch chatter. oh wait here it is, direct quote from the article
Drag strip launches were hindered by an oddly chattering clutch that bounced in and out when the rear wheel spun.
my guess due to it being a hydralic clutch. could be wrong.
Drag strip launches were hindered by an oddly chattering clutch that bounced in and out when the rear wheel spun.
my guess due to it being a hydralic clutch. could be wrong.
11-05-2009, 05:32 AM
#10
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
According to Thursten Durbahn's site, the cable clutch will reduce Clutch effort by 50%. So to answer your question, some reasons I can see for the swap is: 1. Less force required to operate clutch, 2. Ability to slip the clutch, 3. Adjustability of clutch engagement point, 4. no bleed requirement
Cons: PRICE!
Cons: PRICE!
11-05-2009, 06:43 AM
#13
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
I will chime in with regards to the "bouncing" clutch if you launch it. Every superhawk I've had has randomly done it if I pop the clutch, including a brand new one, so it's not a matter of needing to fix or rebuild anything (with regards to factory parts anyway). I've also read about it in several places like motorcycle.com when the bike was new. I remember them dragstrip testing it and saying something about a clutch that violently locks and unlocks and it's not fun.
11-05-2009, 08:01 AM
#14
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
The bouncing is a classic example of to light springs, another result of the VTR being a "user friendly" allround bike... Probably in combination with a bit expansion of the rubber hose (mayby?)...
The reason for a cable clutch... Ability to slip the clutch/adjust the cable, and less prone to failures of heat/crash... But I kind of doubt it would be less effort?
The reason a lot of touring bikes have a hydraulic clutch is that it's supposed to be less effort... And less maintainance in terms of sticking cable and such when doing lots of miles in all weather... Plus a hamfisted rider can't as easily destroy the clutch by slipping it out of lazyness...
The reason for a cable clutch... Ability to slip the clutch/adjust the cable, and less prone to failures of heat/crash... But I kind of doubt it would be less effort?
The reason a lot of touring bikes have a hydraulic clutch is that it's supposed to be less effort... And less maintainance in terms of sticking cable and such when doing lots of miles in all weather... Plus a hamfisted rider can't as easily destroy the clutch by slipping it out of lazyness...
11-05-2009, 08:10 AM
#15
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 243
what i dont get is...there is sooo much travel on the VTRs clutch handle and yet the engagement point is much, much smaller. they could have made either the master smaller diameter or the slave bigger diameter to make the engagement point longer.
and my hand does kill after a long ride of constantly shifting with the clutch (read, in stop and go traffic). so rebuilding the slave and master will help that? i know my master is kinda starting to fall apart.
and my hand does kill after a long ride of constantly shifting with the clutch (read, in stop and go traffic). so rebuilding the slave and master will help that? i know my master is kinda starting to fall apart.
11-05-2009, 08:50 AM
#16
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Rebuilding the master probably wont change the engagement point... But a rebuild in both end combined with new fluids makes it as light as it's supposed to be... How much of your effort comes from wear and tear is impossible to answear though...
Adding a thicker gasket on the slave moves the engagement point some... A bit ghetto but works...
It's also feasible to machine the pin inside the the clutch shorter, but then I'd recommend trying the gasket to get the right measurement first...
Adding a thicker gasket on the slave moves the engagement point some... A bit ghetto but works...
It's also feasible to machine the pin inside the the clutch shorter, but then I'd recommend trying the gasket to get the right measurement first...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-05-2009 at 09:17 AM.
11-05-2009, 09:03 AM
#17
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
11-05-2009, 09:14 AM
#18
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Ouch... That did indeed seem like a snapped cable as I kind of doubt he'd fubar it that way with his experience...
But I still maintain that anyone on a bike without a helmet deserves the scars and the pain (if they survive!)
But I still maintain that anyone on a bike without a helmet deserves the scars and the pain (if they survive!)
11-05-2009, 11:16 AM
#21
Who are you?
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 731
Why would you swap to something that is more prone to failure, needs more maintenance, and has no clear advantage other than slightly more feel.
11-05-2009, 12:33 PM
#23
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: thorold ontario
Posts: 1,978
ive ridden bikes with cable and hydralic clutches, meh i didnt really a notice, in all honesty i think i prefer the way mine feels, but as mentioend above the engagment point is a little further out and theres alot of useless clutch travel in the lever.
11-05-2009, 02:03 PM
#24
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
He told me that's what happened. We used to train in the gym together and he's extremely fortunate to not have suffered any permanant effects from that-one could easily have been killed from that. If memory serves me he wasn't even performing, just announcing and he jumped on the bike. He is an amazingly talented rider.
11-06-2009, 07:16 AM
#25
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arlington Heights, IL
Posts: 320
Since someone mentioned in this thread about switching to stainless steel clutch cable, has anyone done this and is there a significant difference? I switched my front brake cables last winter along with a couple of other front brake mods and there was a huge difference. I was going to replace my clutch fluid this wonter and I was wondering if it was really beneficial to change out the cable at the same time. Or does rebuilding and new fluid help as much?
11-06-2009, 07:52 AM
#26
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 344
it depends on how sensitive you are to your controls. Most of us might not notice it too much, but you might.
Assuming your bike is approaching 10 years old...like mine...replacing the lines is a good maintenance idea, and going with a stainless braided line should, just like on brakes, give you better results. Remember though, there's not the pressures that brake lines encounter. it's not like you squeeze harder to disengage the clutch harder.
Assuming your bike is approaching 10 years old...like mine...replacing the lines is a good maintenance idea, and going with a stainless braided line should, just like on brakes, give you better results. Remember though, there's not the pressures that brake lines encounter. it's not like you squeeze harder to disengage the clutch harder.
11-06-2009, 10:19 AM
#27
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 117
Having the clutch cable snap on my previous bike, i can appreciate the benefits of a hydraulic clutch. IMHO, aside from mechanical issues any "difficulty" and weirdness in feel and actuation is can be acclimated to with practice and constant riding.
11-06-2009, 10:31 AM
#28
Who are you?
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 731
Since someone mentioned in this thread about switching to stainless steel clutch cable, has anyone done this and is there a significant difference? I switched my front brake cables last winter along with a couple of other front brake mods and there was a huge difference. I was going to replace my clutch fluid this wonter and I was wondering if it was really beneficial to change out the cable at the same time. Or does rebuilding and new fluid help as much?
So to answer your question, you might feel a difference, but more likely it's the fact that you bled the clutch fluid that it feels better.
01-12-2010, 10:55 AM
#30
Member
Squid
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 94
I will chime in with regards to the "bouncing" clutch if you launch it. Every superhawk I've had has randomly done it if I pop the clutch, including a brand new one, so it's not a matter of needing to fix or rebuild anything (with regards to factory parts anyway). I've also read about it in several places like motorcycle.com when the bike was new. I remember them dragstrip testing it and saying something about a clutch that violently locks and unlocks and it's not fun.
I also have a 600 and 750 Gix, both with cable clutch and never experienced such erratic behavior when launching them
