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R1/R6 Regulator/Rectifier Swap

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Old 07-14-2010, 04:20 AM
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Actually, I'd start with the basics... Check voltage against ground... The bike has 5 or 6 ground points where the harness connects to the frame... Those are exposed and usually corrode unless taken care of...

Also, regardless of how much you charge a battery, once it has made friends with a defective R/R it's usually dead... It might show 12V+ at rest, but as soon as you put a load on it and try to start, it drops like a stone... Test and either verify or disprove that theory... it shouln't drop below 11V at any time...

Once those two are taken care of... Pull every fuse in the fuse box and start measuring from there, then you know which part of the harness that the problem is in...

But I'm willing to put money on a bad R/R killing your battery, so start with that...

Oh BTW a colored schematic for the VTR is available here www.tweety.se/links.php

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Old 07-14-2010, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Actually, I'd start with the basics... Check voltage against ground... The bike has 5 or 6 ground points where the harness connects to the frame... Those are exposed and usually corrode unless taken care of...

Also, regardless of how much you charge a battery, once it has made friends with a defective R/R it's usually dead... It might show 12V+ at rest, but as soon as you put a load on it and try to start, it drops like a stone... Test and either verify or disprove that theory... it shouln't drop below 11V at any time...

Once those two are taken care of... Pull every fuse in the fuse box and start measuring from there, then you know which part of the harness that the problem is in...

But I'm willing to put money on a bad R/R killing your battery, so start with that...

Oh BTW a colored schematic for the VTR is available here www.tweety.se/links.php
the colored wiring diagram referenced includes 8 ground symbols. 2 of these are spark plugs. 4 complete the circuit after a switch and are not what i would call a reference ground. these 4 grounds are probably okay if your starter, dash lights and fan operate. 1 ground is the negative battery cable tied to the engine case. the remaining ground (in the northwest quadrant of the diagram) i'm not sure about. i'd guess this is the ring terminal that ties to the subframe via one of the R/R mounting screws. can anyone confirm this?

i would make sure the last two grounds are continuous as tweety suggests. to clarify, this step will likely not help localize a current leak.

wjfrank07, you could start and run the bike off a car battery. it will run for awhile without any charging system. also, a test i found useful that is not in the service manual is to measure the RMS voltage from each leg of the stator to ground. my stator passed the resistive tests, but still wasn't outputting sufficient voltage.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by asdf33 View Post
the colored wiring diagram referenced includes 8 ground symbols. 2 of these are spark plugs. 4 complete the circuit after a switch and are not what i would call a reference ground. these 4 grounds are probably okay if your starter, dash lights and fan operate. 1 ground is the negative battery cable tied to the engine case. the remaining ground (in the northwest quadrant of the diagram) i'm not sure about. i'd guess this is the ring terminal that ties to the subframe via one of the R/R mounting screws. can anyone confirm this?

i would make sure the last two grounds are continuous as tweety suggests. to clarify, this step will likely not help localize a current leak.

wjfrank07, you could start and run the bike off a car battery. it will run for awhile without any charging system. also, a test i found useful that is not in the service manual is to measure the RMS voltage from each leg of the stator to ground. my stator passed the resistive tests, but still wasn't outputting sufficient voltage.
Agreed, curing ground problems won't help you find the problem... But with bad grounding you get all sorts of strange behaviour, and getting that variable out of the way first is a good idea...

BTW, nope that's not the R/R ground strap, that's located near the starter motor, just like on the schematic... Infact there are groundpoints that aren't marked on the schematic, one of them just pulling an odd one from memory is located at the thermosensor, grounding locally to the thermostat housing, not connected to main ground, but it's just an example, there are others...
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Agreed, curing ground problems won't help you find the problem... But with bad grounding you get all sorts of strange behaviour, and getting that variable out of the way first is a good idea...

BTW, nope that's not the R/R ground strap, that's located near the starter motor, just like on the schematic... Infact there are groundpoints that aren't marked on the schematic, one of them just pulling an odd one from memory is located at the thermosensor, grounding locally to the thermostat housing, not connected to main ground, but it's just an example, there are others...
i guess i haven't checked all my grounds, largely because i don't know where they are.

tweety, if you can easily recall where more grounds are physically located, i'm sure the forum would benefit from this knowledge. also, you made a "VTRness" to augment grounds. what did you tie together?
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:16 AM
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Um... The problem with that is that I don't really have a stock harness anymore... My harness actually have 14 main ground points, and while I can tell you where those are, telling you which of them is stock might be a bit trickier... Ihave my own wiring schematic, since mine doesn't follow the oem one very well by now (I'm using hayabusa controls, Yamaha R/R, CBR coils, and the lis keeps going)...

I basicly improved the grounding for the R/R, added thicker cables for the two poles going out of that, rewired the headlight using relays, like eastern beaver, added a grounding at the rearlight/signals since I prefer them to work and since they where orginally operating on a single #14-16 gauge ground wire... Same for front signals, and then I just kept going...

I'm an electrical engineer by trade, so calculating the load on each part and using the right size cable is something that is natural to me... Honda apparently though that using the same undersized cables all through the bike was a logical step, giving it equally bad performance in all parts of the electric system... I kind of didn't agree with their wisdom, so I modified it...

To be honest, about as much as the rest of the bike is modified, the wiring harness is probably at the same percentage of Honda engineering vs made by me ast the bike as a whole... Considering that it stopped having various electrical problems, I'd say it at least wasn't a bad idea...

BTW What's a "VTRness"?

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Old 07-14-2010, 11:13 AM
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"VTRness" is a reference to "VFRness," which is a popular mod for VFRs which bolsters the grounds. "Rness" => harness. clever, no?

i'm acquiring a collection of VTR electrical gremlins as the miles accumulate. you should see how much brighter my right marker/signal light is than the left. the problem is i'd rather ride my 'hawk than mess with its crude circuits.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by asdf33 View Post
the colored wiring diagram referenced includes 8 ground symbols. 2 of these are spark plugs. 4 complete the circuit after a switch and are not what i would call a reference ground. these 4 grounds are probably okay if your starter, dash lights and fan operate. 1 ground is the negative battery cable tied to the engine case. the remaining ground (in the northwest quadrant of the diagram) i'm not sure about. i'd guess this is the ring terminal that ties to the subframe via one of the R/R mounting screws. can anyone confirm this?

i would make sure the last two grounds are continuous as tweety suggests. to clarify, this step will likely not help localize a current leak.

wjfrank07, you could start and run the bike off a car battery. it will run for awhile without any charging system. also, a test i found useful that is not in the service manual is to measure the RMS voltage from each leg of the stator to ground. my stator passed the resistive tests, but still wasn't outputting sufficient voltage.
What should the RMS voltage be from each leg of the stator?

I haven't taken my battery in to be check with a load on it yet, but I'm guessing you guys are right that my battery is toast now. I will try to get that done this weekend.

I can't figure out the battery leakage rate though. I started pulling fuses the other night and have found that the 1.6 mA leakage is coming from the odometer and ignition switch circuit. I eliminated the ignition connector, but haven't yet unplugged the odometer connector.

I'll let you guys now what I find.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wjfrank07 View Post
What should the RMS voltage be from each leg of the stator?

I haven't taken my battery in to be check with a load on it yet, but I'm guessing you guys are right that my battery is toast now. I will try to get that done this weekend.

I can't figure out the battery leakage rate though. I started pulling fuses the other night and have found that the 1.6 mA leakage is coming from the odometer and ignition switch circuit. I eliminated the ignition connector, but haven't yet unplugged the odometer connector.

I'll let you guys now what I find.
Should I at this point assume you didn't read through or take any notice of the fault finding chart? Because if you prefer asking questions we cant answer for you as opposed to finding out by working/reading a little I'm not too interested in helping...

As for load testing, a standard household 60W bulb is an excellent load tester, don't need to take the battery anywhere to have it tested... Just need a cheap voltmeter, a bulb and some wires...

BTW if you are to lazy to search for the pdf file, it's linked in the links page at my webpage (link in one of the above posts)...
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Should I at this point assume you didn't read through or take any notice of the fault finding chart? Because if you prefer asking questions we cant answer for you as opposed to finding out by working/reading a little I'm not too interested in helping...

As for load testing, a standard household 60W bulb is an excellent load tester, don't need to take the battery anywhere to have it tested... Just need a cheap voltmeter, a bulb and some wires...

BTW if you are to lazy to search for the pdf file, it's linked in the links page at my webpage (link in one of the above posts)...
Easy Tweety. I did go through the fault finding chart (the first time you suggested it). According to the chart, my r/r is bad b/c I can't get an conductivity through it.

I then took a look at the honda service manual for a second opinion. According to it, I have a short circuit somewhere b/c my battery leakage is 1.6 mA with the ignition switch off. That is what led me to checking for a short somewhere, but everything checked out on that end.

So I have come to the conclusion that it my r/r faulty, as your chart told me. The only way I can explain my larger battery leakage is one of two things: (1) my multimeter isn't accurate enough to measure that small of current, or (2) my gauge cluster is truly drawing 1.6 mA due to the digital clock and my service manual (which is for models up to 2003) is incorrect for my '05 model.

Anyways, my new r/r is on the way. I will check the battery as well. The light bulb is a great idea. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:19 AM
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Nah... Not easy... I was just stating a fact... But since you did use it, and we are just discussing the findings all is well...

If you consider the fact that the R/R should conduct in some directions and not in others when the doides are working properly, and when they fail, they either stop conducting period, or start doing it the wrong way... Well, there you have your short... disconnect the R/R an measure the drain again...

It's kind of a typical R/R failure to slowly drain the battery, because the diodes aren't blocking the path they should, combined with low or high charge voltages for the same reasons...
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:56 AM
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I am having the same issue. When I remove the 10amp instrument fuse, the leak stops. I have not done any other trouble shooting yet, but I will and report back. JB
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wjfrank07 View Post
What should the RMS voltage be from each leg of the stator?
The voltage will vary with RPM. I don't have a spec, but it better be over 13 VRMS (from leg to ground) at some point. My failed stator was giving me less than a volt from each leg. My used replacement is giving me 15-50 V, symmetrically from each leg, IIRC.

It sounds like you've located your unwanted load (short) to the cluster. Personally, I let small leaks, be it oil, coolant, or current, go unchecked as long as I know the source and that it is not a serious problem. A milliamp leak wouldn't bother me greatly, especially if the bike is kept on a battery tender when parked. I'm guessing your charging problem is a separate, bigger issue.

BTW, keeping your battery topped off with an automatic trickle charger has benefits, but it will also make it more difficult to notice problems with your bike's charging system.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by residentg View Post
I am having the same issue. When I remove the 10amp instrument fuse, the leak stops. I have not done any other trouble shooting yet, but I will and report back. JB
Have you tired that measurement with the R/R disconnected? Did it make any difference?
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Have you tired that measurement with the R/R disconnected? Did it make any difference?
I don't remember if I did that or not, I have an R1-RR installed though, which I installed after the leak was identified, so probably not the RR. I have been working on a rebuild of a wrecked 1999 (which I have been documenting so I do not forget what I do).

My concern on the 2005 was whether or not it was my Eastern Beaver harness, which it is not. I think that I was sloppy with the dieletric grease at the speedo connector. I will be checking it out shortly (pls excuse the pun).

The 1.6mA leak was enough to weaken a new battery to where it would not turn over the engine, so in the mean time I just remove the speedo fuse when parked. JB
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:43 PM
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Burned up regulator pics

Hey all, I have a '98 and the regulator burned out on me last weekend. Fortunately, it burned out and popped the fuse in my apartment's parking lot and not somewhere on the interstate.

To the the hawk riders out there that don't have a finned regulator (pre 2001, right?), DO IT! I got lucky and found a guy that was selling a 2000 r1 regulator for $40. Conversion was super simple

To the senior members here, thanks for the good knowledge.
Attached Thumbnails R1/R6 Regulator/Rectifier Swap-imag0292.jpg   R1/R6 Regulator/Rectifier Swap-imag0288.jpg   R1/R6 Regulator/Rectifier Swap-imag0289.jpg  

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Old 10-08-2010, 05:50 AM
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I'm doing the same thing. Bought a brand new Ricks R1 R/R, waiting on it to come in the mail.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:29 AM
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i dont know if this helps anyone but i thought i post a link to maybe help a little.
http://vtr1000f.wickidnet.com/
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:56 PM
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Seriously people... Do you read the threads you respond to?!

Sorry saige... But you get a smiley
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Old 10-08-2010, 01:03 PM
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lol its all good
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:24 PM
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just did this conversion tonight with the help of gsxr rcr worked like a charm
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:19 PM
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quick question does it matter on the years, I found a 05 r1 r/r but from pic it looks like it has two plugs, thanks sorry I am on my phone having hard time with search fnction
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cwlucky13 View Post
quick question does it matter on the years, I found a 05 r1 r/r but from pic it looks like it has two plugs, thanks sorry I am on my phone having hard time with search fnction
That is the later design R/R.. I prefer it as it separates the wiring of BAT/ GND and Stator . OEM quality plugs and or all new wiring harness are available for cheap from a company called Eastern Beaver. Jim, the owner is a stand up guy I will deal with any day.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:24 AM
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cool thanks
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:04 AM
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I did this a long time ago and want to clean it up a bit does anyone know if Eastern Beaver makes a nice plug that will fit the one plug style all I seen on the web page was the two plug setup. I might email him will have to look to see if I still have a photo of the R/R unit. so I can show him what I want. if I have to I could sell that one on the forum and drop a few bucks for the two plug R/R unit. I am also going to get the headlight relay at the same time. just want my bike to be a bit more professional looking not back yard mechanic mods. Which work fine but dont look professional know what I mean.

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Old 04-02-2011, 04:55 PM
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Price Update:
In checking around I found the Yamaha R6 R/R (Yam # 4JH-81960-01) for $70 + S&H at RonAyers.com. This is for a new part. This was a much better price than anything new I could find on eBay (at the time I looked).
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RonVTR View Post
Price Update:
In checking around I found the Yamaha R6 R/R (Yam # 4JH-81960-01) for $70 + S&H at RonAyers.com. This is for a new part. This was a much better price than anything new I could find on eBay (at the time I looked).
If you're looking, I have a couple different ones for better prices. I'm going to list them in the classifieds, but haven't put them up yet.

PM me if interested.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:58 AM
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Before doing any R/R swap... It might be a good idea to read here... https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...why-how-25117/

The R6 R/R is not a MOSFET based R/R...
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:44 AM
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6 wires?

Just bought an R/R from a 2008 R6 (SH678).
The unit was intended for six wires, not the 5 of the S/Hawk. Can I still use it or did I screw up?
If I can use it, which terminal do I leave empty?

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Old 12-22-2011, 09:49 AM
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you can still use it,i have a 6 wire,give me a couple of mins and i will post up pic of where the wires go.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:59 AM
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