Oh, i've ordered a new one, but i've sawn a slot in the old one so it's still useable, just not that aesthetically pleasing ;)

Let me know if anyone wants the old one. The threads are fine, just the hex is gone.

Cheers,

Paul.

Very nice :)
yeah, mine has a huge star bolt pattern now :) Glad to hear it finally worked.

I ended up getting mine out with an impact driver and several good blows from a hammer. I didn't need to get it open, but knowing that it was seized bugged me. I used the rear tire cheat to bump to TDC.

wow, you are a stronger man then I. That didnt even slightly work for me :( I just kept pushing the bike into the wall. :)

Started hearing the "death rattle" on mine about a week ago. Ordered the APE cct's on Thursday and they just arrived. Diggin into it Monday morning. Anyone else that is looking into doing this, check out this website www.overstockpartsgalore.com The cct's were $109 with gaskets and shipping included and shipped super fast. Best deal I could find on the net (as none of the local shops seem to be able to get them for me...), hope this helps someone else out looking to do the swap. I'll keep posted with the results. Wish me luck.

So I was reading the Haynes manual supplied by the p/o and their steps for cct removal states that you can unscrew the tensioner cap bolt and use a flat head screwdriver to retract the plunger before removing stock cct. Nowhere else does it say anything about turning engine to tdc... How important is this step? It seems that if you slowly release pressure on the cam chain the cams aren't likely to jump. Does anyone have any experience doing it this way or is it safer doing the steps outlined in this thread? It looks like it would save about an hours time going by the Haynes manual, but I don't want to risk the cams jumping by trying to save a little bit of time. Any help would be appreciated.

Update: Just looked at the Honda Service Manual and cct removal is only addressed during camshaft removal, but again it outlines pretty much the same technique as the Haynes manual, release pressure, remove and replace.

It'll take nowhere near an hour to find front and rear compression stroke. More like 5 minutes, and that includes removing the spark plug and timing inspection plug.

[Standard disclaimer, this is the method I use, use at your own risk]

Seriously, decide which pot you want to do, and remove the spark plug from the OTHER cylinder. Turn engine anticlockwise using the 17mm bolt in the stator (big plug in the stator cover) until you feel compression. STOP at TDC by looking for the relevant FT or RT timing mark. You are now at compression, with the least camchain tension. You can now release the compression pressure in the cylinder if necessary by loosening the spark plug and (relatively safely) remove the relevant CCT and replace.

Same for the other cylinder. If you're not sure about the 270degree or 450 degree rotation, then replace the plug and remove the other cylinder's spark plug. Stop at TDC compression again.

If you don't understand the above, DON'T attempt the CCT replacement yourself take it to someone who does ;-)

Bottom line is, you can change it at any point in the 4 stroke cycle, but you run a real risk that a camshaft will turn if one of the valve springs is under compression.

Cheers,

Paul.

The problem isn't the tension from the CCT, it is the pressure from the valve spring that will want to turn the camshaft.. Releasing the cct tension slowly will not solve the problem, and you run the risk of the chain jumping a tooth in just the same way.. You are already that far into it that the 4 bolts to remove the rear valve cover is really not a big deal (literally you are talking 4 bolts, that's the difference) that you might as well be sure rather than risk it.

In the service manual the only time it talks about removing the CCT is as part of removing the camshaft (page 8-4) and if you are removing the camshaft you have to retime it anyways, so it won't matter if it jumps a tooth. You are trying to replace the CCT without having to retime the valve system..

Thanks for the input guys. I'm certain I can handle this, but just needed a little clarification. Makes more sense now.

So I swapped out the rear cct without a single problem... Unfortunately not so lucky with the front. Had the front cylinder at tdc but the marks on the cams weren't lining up. Took every precaution possible and as I pulled the cct out about a 1 1/2 inch, the cam jumped. As I said the markings weren't lining up so I judged by the nearest markings and it looked to be about a tooth off, so I pulled the chain off the rear cam and rotated it to get it lined up. Buttoned her back up...and....nothing. At this point it's well past my experience level so I call the local shop to get her in. (While she was torn down I took the liberty of changing the plugs and air filter) 4 days later the service manager calls me and tells me that they're having the same problem (not instilling me with tons of confidence). Long story short, got her back today and was talking to the mechanic who said he thought the front cct had completely failed causing the cam chain to stretch a little so the cams are now about 1/2 tooth off.
However, while she was in the shop I had them install a Dynojet Stage I in it to take care of the lurch I was getting at 3K rpm due to new pipes.

Holy sh*t! The bike is running better than it ever has. Much to my surprise I accidentally pulled the front wheel up with about 3/4 throttle (stock gearing). The second and third time weren't accidents. I'm in love with her all over again.

Moral of my story: Don't be afraid to do this. I f@cked it up, but once I talked to the mechanic I learned that it was even baffling to them. Seems all the manuals say the timing marks should be where they aren't (others have posted the same concerns on this thread). Don't be afraid to admit defeat and leave it in the hands of those paid to do this stuff. Although having completed the job myself would have been more gratifying, riding my bike instead of scratching my head is much more gratifying.

Congrats Poppazuti :D the front is always the hard one. I was able to swap mine without issue but if one is going to mess with you, it will be the front one.

the front is an asshole!

Sorry to hear this. But, if the cam jumped, then you can't have been on compression. There is no cam chain tension when the cylinder is on the firing stroke. You must have been at TDC on the transition from exhaust to inlet - known as 'on the rock' when I was in the auto repair trade.

The FT or RT mark lines up with the timing window twice in the 4 stroke cycle, that's why you need to pull the cam cover to visually check, or be totally sure that you are on the firing (compression) stroke.

Cheers,

Paul.

Thanks you to everyone who has posted about the cct issue. I replaced my tensioners yesterday and everything went flawlessly, except for me being slightly carless about hooking up my vacuum lines and scaring myself when my bike stalled out after I was finished (2 minute fix to figure that out). My rear stock tensioner was really really weak and after I put the apes in my engine no longer sounds like it needs a valve adjustment, and it turns out it doesn't because I checked the clearances while I was in there. Thank you all for this engine saving information. Judging by how weak the rear tensioner was, my hawk surely would have self destructed fairly soon had I not done this.

Mother f*****!!! rear went fine but i heard the front jump! marks are lined up perfectly too.

You did rotate the engine 450 degrees counter clockwise after changing the rear right? Because there are two times the engines TDC mark lines up.. And it is in the compression phase (not exhaust phase) that you have the least likelihood of having a chain jump.

Oh well it's a pain, but not the end of the world. You will now have to remove the front cam cover (you can get at it from the front, you just have to remove the bolts that hold the oil cooler to it, but you can leave the oil lines connected) and retime the cams.

nope im a retard and didnt research enough before i did it. so i changed the rear and thought hey lets see if its quieter, turned it on........ at least i knew enough not to try to turn it on after i heard the front jump.

thanks, just read some other threads about pulling the front cover. hopefully it goes well.

ok so i cant figure out how to get to the two top bolts on the cam cover. it seems like its only possible to get to them by dropping the engine because the fame is in the way

see: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ead.php?t=9577

I haven't ever removed the front one, but people have removed them without dropping the engine. (which is a huge pain and requires special Honda tools, or a custom made tool to reinstall)

from my experience, you got to go from the top... meaning remove the carbs and that pesky carb shield then you can get to the front rear bolts.

ok so i got the cover off. looks like the intake jumped 2 teeth, but now im having trouble setting it right. is it just a matter of lifting the chain off, turning the sprocket and replacing the chain?

If it will rotate without the pistons hitting the valves, I would rotate the engine such that it is at TDC compression first so that it won't try to jump on you again.. And you will want to relieve the tension off the chain by backing out the CCT enough to give you the slack you need to do it. (if I recall correctly, two teeth isn't enough to cause interference, but it wouldn't run right that way)

One member here did it by "inch worming" the chain back along the sprocket, that is not even totally removing the chain, just moving the slack of one tooth at a time along the sprocket till it was right.

Make sure both cams get properly timed, and you should be fine.

well it took all day but i got. the bike runs great now! much smoother. there used to be a little stumble at low rmps and low speed, but that seems to be gone now.

Congrats! and now no worries of your ccts biting it! :D

It seems typical that the front valve cover is left in place? Can the piston on the front cylinder be seen at TDC if the plug is removed?

That is done only because it is a pain to remove.. And if you rotate the engine 450 degrees counter clockwise after doing the rear, then you know that the front is in the right place. But if you really really want to be sure that it is safe to do, then removing both covers is the way to do it.

is it still that hard to remove the front cover if you have the tank and airbox off?

how likely is it that the cam chain on the front will jump if i observe the 450 degree rule and have the mark lined up?

also, in all the pics there is something (wooden spoon, screwdriver etc) sticking up from between the cams, why is that in there?

cheers

Yes, the tank and airbox make the rear easy to get to, but the front is still a pain.

not very likely, that's what I did and had no problems. By rotating the 450 degrees you know that the front cams are in the correct placement without having to see them

That is just plugging the sparkplug hole.. I just covered it with a rag myself.

If you haven't found it yet, I linked to a PDF I created of my adventure of doing this with yruyur (both bikes at once): http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/219618/cctwt.pdf

thanks a lot dude, yeah that makes sense about the plug hole lol

i actually found and downloaded your pdf a while ago, very useful thanks for making it!!

im doin a full service on the bike anyway so need the tank etc off anyway so its not gonna be too much extra bother to do the ccts hopefully.

Little worried about the 1/4 to 3/8" play in the chain. Finger tight for me seems to tight on the chain. Is the chain supposed to be super tight? I made the mistake of not checking the tension with my finger before I pulled out the old CCT. How much resistance from my finger tip is required to get this 1/4"? Thanks