Time to say godbye?
07-03-2009, 03:32 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
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Time to say godbye?
A bit of a strange request maybe: some advice needed.
I have a '98 with 25K miles in San Francisco. On my last trip up in Oregon someone backed up her pickup truck into it and it fell on its side. Kept on riding for 6 days with duct tape to hold the plastic together. It is ridable: right fairing broken, some scratches on the mirror & turning signal, right pipe pushed in, radiator probably does need replacing.
The woman's insurance will pay. The shop says it will cost $4,500 to repair. The blue book value being $3,775, they said that if they send the estimate to the insurance, they will total the bike. They are willing to change the estimate and take off some items so cost will get below 75% of blue book ($2,800) in which case the insurance will likely accept and let me repair. It should be feasible, I can leave with some scratches...
So my options are:
- send the current estimate and let them total the bike.
- remove some items and get $2,800 worth of damage fixed.
I like the bike, I'm not sure what I would replace it with, it's been good to me... what would you do in my situation?
http://www.schnetzler.com/Moto/vtr_images.html
I have a '98 with 25K miles in San Francisco. On my last trip up in Oregon someone backed up her pickup truck into it and it fell on its side. Kept on riding for 6 days with duct tape to hold the plastic together. It is ridable: right fairing broken, some scratches on the mirror & turning signal, right pipe pushed in, radiator probably does need replacing.
The woman's insurance will pay. The shop says it will cost $4,500 to repair. The blue book value being $3,775, they said that if they send the estimate to the insurance, they will total the bike. They are willing to change the estimate and take off some items so cost will get below 75% of blue book ($2,800) in which case the insurance will likely accept and let me repair. It should be feasible, I can leave with some scratches...
So my options are:
- send the current estimate and let them total the bike.
- remove some items and get $2,800 worth of damage fixed.
I like the bike, I'm not sure what I would replace it with, it's been good to me... what would you do in my situation?
http://www.schnetzler.com/Moto/vtr_images.html
07-03-2009, 03:37 PM
#2
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
$4500 for that?? Crazy. It shouldn't be that expensive to repair.
edit: I just looked up a left fairing on RonAyers (since I need one for my bike, unless I repair what I have) and that is $250 already painted.. That should really be the most expensive part of your whole repair...
edit: I just looked up a left fairing on RonAyers (since I need one for my bike, unless I repair what I have) and that is $250 already painted.. That should really be the most expensive part of your whole repair...
Last edited by lazn; 07-03-2009 at 03:41 PM.
07-03-2009, 04:32 PM
#6
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
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If blue book is $3,775, why lower estimate another $975? Why not present an estimate saving the insurance co. $5 or $10 bucks?
Just my opinion but, I think paying for full coverage on an 11 year old bike with a book value under $4k is a giant waste of money.
Just my opinion but, I think paying for full coverage on an 11 year old bike with a book value under $4k is a giant waste of money.
07-03-2009, 04:57 PM
#7
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Squid
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
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@runrowdy: IF I can get the insurance to send me the money instead of to the shop, that would definitely be a good way to go.
@RK1: in the repair shop guy's experience, if the estimate is more than 75% of the blue book value, the insurance will total the bike. And it's the other person's insurance that is paying since they're at fault, not mine. I don't have full coverage.
@RK1: in the repair shop guy's experience, if the estimate is more than 75% of the blue book value, the insurance will total the bike. And it's the other person's insurance that is paying since they're at fault, not mine. I don't have full coverage.
07-03-2009, 04:59 PM
#8
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Location: Orlando, FL
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As far as full coverage, some can afford to take a $4000 loss, some can't. My full coverage with $0 deductible and gear coverage costs me an extra $100 a year over liability only. My riding gear cost over a grand alone. Worth it to me.
07-03-2009, 05:05 PM
#9
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It's your bike and your loss. Your bike is now worth $2800+ less than before she hit it. They WILL send you the check. Don't let the repair shop tell you different. You may want to get a few estimates for repair and then tell the insurance co. your not sure who you want to fix it, send me the money. This really shouldn't be necessary though. Been there, done that.
Last edited by runrowdy; 07-03-2009 at 05:10 PM.
07-03-2009, 06:35 PM
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
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I've been on both sides of this. When they totaled my Superhawk, I bought the bike back even with extensive damage and rebuilt.
When Junior went down on the '98 VFR doing the tango with one of his lady classmates in a parking lot, we took the money and bought it back - put it on the local CL for less than wholesale and it sold in five hours. I literally sold a bike twice that I never really owned. Bought the bike for $28 sold X2 for $52.
Your damage is mostly minor. If it's not leaking coolant or anything else, you can take the money twice. How much do you like your Superhawk?
When Junior went down on the '98 VFR doing the tango with one of his lady classmates in a parking lot, we took the money and bought it back - put it on the local CL for less than wholesale and it sold in five hours. I literally sold a bike twice that I never really owned. Bought the bike for $28 sold X2 for $52.
Your damage is mostly minor. If it's not leaking coolant or anything else, you can take the money twice. How much do you like your Superhawk?
07-03-2009, 07:16 PM
#13
I don't need any Meds
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Location: West Coast, SoCal Inland
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it is 4,500 because that is not parts alone guys. every one here wrenches on their own bike and sees a legit estimate and scoffs at it. as a business owner i have had people tell me " omg you want to charge me how much?' to which i say get the **** out of my store you ignorant ****. and as they stand their horrified i say sure you could do it yourself for less. but how much rent do you pay at your house? how much is your electricity? how much is your workers comp, and the rest of your utilities? how much is your time worth for actually performing the work?
Every one needs to understand yes estimates come in high, but the guy repairing the damage did not learn a craft, rent a shop, buy a **** ton of very exspensive tools and then take on the risk factor of going out of business so he can work for fukn minimum wage or less.
Please people keep this in mind when tryng to place value on how another person is actually making thier living. i am not chinnese and will not work for .20 cents a day.
50
Every one needs to understand yes estimates come in high, but the guy repairing the damage did not learn a craft, rent a shop, buy a **** ton of very exspensive tools and then take on the risk factor of going out of business so he can work for fukn minimum wage or less.
Please people keep this in mind when tryng to place value on how another person is actually making thier living. i am not chinnese and will not work for .20 cents a day.
50
07-03-2009, 07:37 PM
#14
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Squid
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 48
Glass mat and resin are cheap. Sand paper is cheap. Bondo is cheap - and your labor is worth however much beer you drink in an hour while working on your stuff (if you're from Texas, that's a lot...believe me I know). I bought my chicken for a little bit of nothing. It was worn out, beat up, and looked like it'd been through hell and back. It's not a show bike now by any means. It's a daily rider.... You couldn't PAY me to get rid of this bike. Who else has a bike that, with 78,000 miles, can make a Z1000 look stupid? A little bit of sweat from your own brow just adds character to the bike. Take the check - fix it. If you absolutely have no clue how to begin - then it's totally up to you...but think of what you're getting rid of for what is really just a couple of small scratches...
That's just my opinion, but I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of guys out there that will agree.
5150 - I don't know about everyone else, but I can understand where you're coming from. Catch is - some of us just don't have the dimes to drop to let someone else sweat for us. I'm sure no one meant to offend you on that one. We all know how it is when a sudden "oh ****" flattens your wallet.
That's just my opinion, but I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of guys out there that will agree.
5150 - I don't know about everyone else, but I can understand where you're coming from. Catch is - some of us just don't have the dimes to drop to let someone else sweat for us. I'm sure no one meant to offend you on that one. We all know how it is when a sudden "oh ****" flattens your wallet.
07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
#15
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the insurance co totaled mine, they gave me the high book value (after a little haggling) for it, and then I bought it back for $1200.00(mine's a 98 and that was 4 years ago). You should be able to buy it back for under a grand, fix it, get a reconstructed title, and you'll be in money, and still have a great bike.
07-03-2009, 10:23 PM
#16
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MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
it is 4,500 because that is not parts alone guys. every one here wrenches on their own bike and sees a legit estimate and scoffs at it. as a business owner i have had people tell me " omg you want to charge me how much?' to which i say get the **** out of my store you ignorant ****. and as they stand their horrified i say sure you could do it yourself for less. but how much rent do you pay at your house? how much is your electricity? how much is your workers comp, and the rest of your utilities? how much is your time worth for actually performing the work?
Every one needs to understand yes estimates come in high, but the guy repairing the damage did not learn a craft, rent a shop, buy a **** ton of very exspensive tools and then take on the risk factor of going out of business so he can work for fukn minimum wage or less.
Please people keep this in mind when tryng to place value on how another person is actually making thier living. i am not chinnese and will not work for .20 cents a day.
50
Every one needs to understand yes estimates come in high, but the guy repairing the damage did not learn a craft, rent a shop, buy a **** ton of very exspensive tools and then take on the risk factor of going out of business so he can work for fukn minimum wage or less.
Please people keep this in mind when tryng to place value on how another person is actually making thier living. i am not chinnese and will not work for .20 cents a day.
50
Yes, I understand charging $65 an hour because of overhead etc.. but charging nearly $200 an hour?? (and nearly doubling the price of the radiator on top of that)
07-03-2009, 11:26 PM
#17
guru of things sparky
SuperSport
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grand Prairie , Texas
Posts: 599
Wait till you see the damage to my hawk, and how fast and inexpensive it really is to bring her back to life.
She looks scarfy, and anyone without experience would want to toss it to the wind and start with something else.
But in reality, if you use your head and do the right stuff in the right order, you find its not nearly as bad or expensive as the rip-off insurance estimates say.
The question is how much you love her, and how much commitment you can muster.
Mine was stolen in 2005 and wrecked several times on both sides before the police recovered her. This time isnt even half the damage as that time... to put it in perspective.
I will gladly share on the forum the repair process.
This way even if you dont fix it yourself, you can use it as a reference point to keep from getting shafted by profiteer shops who care less about putting life back into the machine than making quick profit and sending you down the road.
She looks scarfy, and anyone without experience would want to toss it to the wind and start with something else.
But in reality, if you use your head and do the right stuff in the right order, you find its not nearly as bad or expensive as the rip-off insurance estimates say.
The question is how much you love her, and how much commitment you can muster.
Mine was stolen in 2005 and wrecked several times on both sides before the police recovered her. This time isnt even half the damage as that time... to put it in perspective.
I will gladly share on the forum the repair process.
This way even if you dont fix it yourself, you can use it as a reference point to keep from getting shafted by profiteer shops who care less about putting life back into the machine than making quick profit and sending you down the road.
07-04-2009, 05:38 AM
#18
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the insurance co totaled mine, they gave me the high book value (after a little haggling) for it, and then I bought it back for $1200.00(mine's a 98 and that was 4 years ago). You should be able to buy it back for under a grand, fix it, get a reconstructed title, and you'll be in money, and still have a great bike.
If he takes the $2800, spends the same $1500 to repair, he nets $1300.
I'm not sure I would accept a salvage title for $200. That title will kill his resale eventually. If they only give him $3775 or want more then a $1000 to buy it back that would totaly kill the deal. JMHO.
07-04-2009, 06:00 AM
#19
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Superstock
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: texas
Posts: 286
i really think its up to you. personally i would get all i could without salvage tittle and fix it myself. or just let them total it take the check for no less than blue book value and get another bike. for 3,7xx buck you can find alot of nice bikes. i got this 98,superhawk for 3000.
07-04-2009, 07:31 AM
#20
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SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,051
the best option is to get the value of the bike as high as possible by filling out the additional options / aftermarket parts sheet. once the value is set then adjust the quote to keep if from getting totalled.
if you do the buy back and get a branded title it won't be worth anything when it comes time to sell / upgrade.
tim
if you do the buy back and get a branded title it won't be worth anything when it comes time to sell / upgrade.
tim
07-04-2009, 11:57 AM
#22
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Squid
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Location: San Francisco
Posts: 7
Thanks everybody! I will get the estimate at 75% of the blue book value and hope they will agree to pay me directly, and do as much as I can myself.
Circuit_Burner: your advice would be very useful!
Circuit_Burner: your advice would be very useful!
07-04-2009, 12:19 PM
#23
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Squid
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6
I dropped my 01 model two weeks ago the left fairing was knackered, both rabbit ears beside the windscreen were broken off, scratches on the casing and on the duck tail, bar end gone, gear lever and clutch lever too, I just had both fairings replaced the holes where the front indicators went filled, the whole bike painted and new aftermarket exhuast, thier qoute was $2300 Aussie dollars ( alot less than the US dollar) plus I spent the extra money and had carbon mirrors with inbuilt led indicators put on a DB windscreen and a rumble undertail and some oggy *****.
She came up a treat, sounds like mine was in similar condition to yours, so good luck with it mate.
SS
She came up a treat, sounds like mine was in similar condition to yours, so good luck with it mate.
SS
07-04-2009, 04:34 PM
#24
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
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If repairs total more than 75% of book value the insurance company will probably total the bike. (they take the bike, pay you book value. You can negotiate what you think your bike is worth due to condition or add ons) Then they will resell it as salvage to recoup some of their money. You may be able to buy the bike back from the insurance co. but not sure how you would make out in this deal. I think you would end up with a salvage title. That's how I understand it anyway, I could be wrong. Maybe there is an adjuster around here to give you advice?
As far as full coverage, some can afford to take a $4000 loss, some can't. My full coverage with $0 deductible and gear coverage costs me an extra $100 a year over liability only. My riding gear cost over a grand alone. Worth it to me.
As far as full coverage, some can afford to take a $4000 loss, some can't. My full coverage with $0 deductible and gear coverage costs me an extra $100 a year over liability only. My riding gear cost over a grand alone. Worth it to me.
In my case (Southern California) full coverage was hundreds more per year than liability. Aka not worth it. And since I paid cash for the bike, not required.
Last edited by RK1; 07-04-2009 at 04:39 PM.
07-04-2009, 08:31 PM
#25
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Location: altoona, pa
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When I crashed mine, I wanted to keep it because I knew it was cared for and i loved it. I don't care about a reconstructed title since I don't sell things i like. Of course i dropped the collision. If your not mechanically inclined and/or don't want to learn, take the fastest route to another bike. I bought an xr650l to ride while I reconstructed mine and now I won't sell it either. Personal choices.
07-05-2009, 05:52 PM
#27
I don't need any Meds
Superstock
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast, SoCal Inland
Posts: 265
Glass mat and resin are cheap. Sand paper is cheap. Bondo is cheap - and your labor is worth however much beer you drink in an hour while working on your stuff (if you're from Texas, that's a lot...believe me I know). I bought my chicken for a little bit of nothing. It was worn out, beat up, and looked like it'd been through hell and back. It's not a show bike now by any means. It's a daily rider.... You couldn't PAY me to get rid of this bike. Who else has a bike that, with 78,000 miles, can make a Z1000 look stupid? A little bit of sweat from your own brow just adds character to the bike. Take the check - fix it. If you absolutely have no clue how to begin - then it's totally up to you...but think of what you're getting rid of for what is really just a couple of small scratches...
That's just my opinion, but I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of guys out there that will agree.
5150 - I don't know about everyone else, but I can understand where you're coming from. Catch is - some of us just don't have the dimes to drop to let someone else sweat for us. I'm sure no one meant to offend you on that one. We all know how it is when a sudden "oh ****" flattens your wallet.
That's just my opinion, but I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of guys out there that will agree.
5150 - I don't know about everyone else, but I can understand where you're coming from. Catch is - some of us just don't have the dimes to drop to let someone else sweat for us. I'm sure no one meant to offend you on that one. We all know how it is when a sudden "oh ****" flattens your wallet.
i love to save a dime as much as the next guy and i dont have tons of cash to drop either on things i could do myself for way cheaper. i just get hurt when people act like the mechanic is raking them over the coals because the poor basterd has over head and training and bills.
sorry if i came off rude or rash. i just had some dumb **** in my store explaining to me how i was over charging because i only have xxx into the product i was offering and how the guy down the street is offering the 'same" thing for less. and i kind of gave him the old pinto vs the ford gt story. not all cars are cars. not all labor or skill of the one perfoming it is equal. And you are right by no means is it ever as special as when you yourself wrench on it.
i just hate being at the jiffy lube and hear somefukn dip **** come up and make a ******* out of himself all the while he is grinning away thinking what a genious he is. it goes like this.
Jiffy lube guy.. "oil change is 29.99" dumb **** customer "how come? i can buy 5 quarts of oil for less then 10 bucks and a filter for 2 bucks. you guys buy tons of oil you must get it for less. in fact i bet you guys get the oil and filter for half of what i pay retail off the shelf in low quantity?" JFLG "sir we have to pay the mechanic we have lights and we have insurence should we drop or damage your car in any way" DSC "and?"
i just was making the point because super hawk riders are the best and this forum rocks and i hate to see any of us turn into "dumb **** customers" ok im off to target to harrase the employess about prices and to ask them how come they cost more then wal mart so i can watch thier heads explode.. lol
07-05-2009, 06:06 PM
#28
I don't need any Meds
Superstock
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast, SoCal Inland
Posts: 265
Most shops around here charge $65/hr. To change out the Radiator is less than an hours work for me (and I am not a professionally trained Mechanic).. They are charging him $190 to do it...
Yes, I understand charging $65 an hour because of overhead etc.. but charging nearly $200 an hour?? (and nearly doubling the price of the radiator on top of that)
Yes, I understand charging $65 an hour because of overhead etc.. but charging nearly $200 an hour?? (and nearly doubling the price of the radiator on top of that)
1 i like you really well lazn you are very helpfull on the forums. i did not mean to come unglued about your post in general about the price.
2. both of my grandparents owned automotive shops for many many years. the price that is charged for non insurance work is less then insurance work for sure.
3. you might be able to buy parts here and there off ebay for less. but if you are a shop that is in business all day long you have to have a steady parts supplier for on demand repairs. we usually pay a bit more for those. the 65 an hour for labor is cheap. we pay certified mechanics close to 40 an hour. the only way to make money in a repair shop is to do two things. one. charge a fair amount for labor and mark up parts(common for all shops) or 2 be the cheapest shopin town and rip off osha and every other goverment rip off hand out agency that bleeds us dry. if you saw some of the waste dipsoal fees and eviormental fees and fire dept fees and county fees for the same items and the city fees again same items on all this **** you would understand that even at 190 it is a bitch to make a decent living as a shop owner. you are usually better off being a mechanic and getting paid wether you work or not. or going on flag rate and hauling *** in a busy shop.
honestly though man middle class is gone. the shop owners of yester year and small business men used to be able to charge you say 30 bucks an hour labor and maybe a 10% mark up on parts are gone. there is two people left the guy who runs his shop all alone now and doesnt even make as much as a non owner. or 2 the guy that charges 190 an hour marks up the **** out of everything and now makes enough to pay all the recent people with the hand out and still have enough left to make what he made for himself when he was charging 30 bucks an hour. both of our shops have since been sold (thank God).
I just get hurt when people think we are out trying to rip every one off when the back side story really is all the new fees we are paying are out of control and we are dying in a sea of debt.
07-10-2009, 06:11 AM
#30
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Squid
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Posts: 7
Not quite there yet, but here's an update:
I talked to the shop before they sent the estimate to the insurance company. They revised the estimate down to $3,100, which they say should be low enough so that the insurance company won't automatically total the bike. I am waiting to hear from them to see how they take it and hopefully they'll send me the money directly.
There's quite a bit I should be able to do myself. The radiator would be the trickiest, although I am not totally convinced it does actually need replacing.
I talked to the shop before they sent the estimate to the insurance company. They revised the estimate down to $3,100, which they say should be low enough so that the insurance company won't automatically total the bike. I am waiting to hear from them to see how they take it and hopefully they'll send me the money directly.
There's quite a bit I should be able to do myself. The radiator would be the trickiest, although I am not totally convinced it does actually need replacing.
