Thoughts after my track day, what about yours?
05-22-2006, 10:11 AM
#1
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 406
Thoughts after my track day, what about yours?
Well, I did my second NESBA track day this past Saturday. Like the first it was at Barber.
I thought I’d share some thoughts and ask for input from other guys here who have done track days.
Here we go……
First a little about me and my bike.
I would consider myself a “good” rider. Comparisons are all relative.
Compared to the average guy rolling around town, who has never hung off, or been on a track, I’m probably a lot better.
BUT, compared to sport bike riders who DO hang off, drag knees, spin tires, have been on the track, etc., I’d say I fall mid-pack. Faster than some, and slower the others.
If “average good rider” makes sense, then that would be me.
My bike is a ’98. It has a Dynojet kit, Carbon Fiber slip-ons , braided lines and Galfer pads. Dunlop Qualifiers and is otherwise stock.
My first track day a few months back I was in Beginner group. There are 3 groups: Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced. Pretty quickly it was obvious that there were a lot of guys in the B group who were truly beginners. There were about 5 or 6 of us who always left out at the front of the “faster” line when leaving pit row. It was, at times, a bit unnerving. No passing in B group except on straights. The pucker factor could get pretty high when you run all over a guy from behind entering a turn and then realize you can’t pass him. Anyways, I rode the best I could and had a great time.
This past Saturday I was back, this time in Intermediate group. It was a whole new world!
I went from the faster half (B group), to the slower half (I group).
There were only a very few guys who were notably slower than the rest, and there were a few who were notably faster than everybody else. I know a few of these faster guys got bumped to Advanced.
There were guys who appeared to be WERA participants. They had “real” numbers and stickers and safety wire. All the stuff that made you think they were racers, and I believe some of them were. They all seemed to be real good riders.
Then, there was me, and a guy on a modified SV650.
EVERY other bike was a modern sport bike (R1, R6, CBR 1000RR, CBR 600RR, GSXR 1000 and 600, Ninja 636, a few Ducatis, etc.) You get the picture.
Guys, I was, plain and simple: OUT GUNNED.
First off, a lot of the guys were just better riders than me. Like I said, I figure I was about mid-pack. Put a better rider on a better bike and it was “SEE ‘YA!!”
There were some guys on new sport bikes who I was able to pass. That was rewarding, only from the standpoint that I had an 8 year old bike that was not near a match for their equipment and I was able to make better time. Cool, but hey it wasn’t a race, and I DID keep that in mind.
I got to see, up close and personal, just how much better a new sport bike is than the SH.
I might be right beside, or right behind, or right in front of a new sport bike in a turn, but once out of the turn and onto a straight and they would check out.
My buddy (who got bumped to Advanced) was on an R1. He is a GOOD rider on a GOOD bike. I asked him to take a few glances to check his top speeds on the straights. He was at 150-155 mph. The best I ever saw was 125-130 mph. That’s a lot of difference. Sure, if I was a great rider, I could make up some difference in the corners. But, I’m not great, I’m good. Problem is, everybody else was good (or better) and had better equipment.
The last session of the day, I got a little frustrated and decided I was going to ride harder, and pass a few more people. I was able to do both and then realized that the bike – and tires! – were up to more than I had given them. A subtle reminder: I am good. I am not very good.
A better rider would have started where I ended and improved form there. But, I had a BLAST !! and plan to do it again this fall.
For those interested, here is a good video:
http://www.cryohold.com/videos/2006-...mr.stillie.wmv
The guy was in Intermediate Group on Sunday. It gives a very good “feel” for what it was like for me. His lap times are near identical to mine. He rides a Ducati and you get to see the “crotch rockets” pull away on the straights.
Based on my experience Saturday, the SH is a great bike for the street. But, the track strips off all the veneer, and imperfections (both rider and bike) explode to the surface.
The brakes, even with my upgraded lines and pads, seemed to be at their limit.
The OEM suspension is NOT race track ready/competitive.
The lower HP really shows on a big track. Once above 100 mph, torque is a almost worthless commodity. You have to have HP and the more the better. These guys had bikes singing at near twice the RPM I was turning and were making 30-40% more HP on bikes that weighed a good bit less.
Do the math.
They go faster!
In some places I was able to pull a little harder out of the turn and make up a little ground, only to have them pull away once the RPMs got high and HP began to rule.
So, I had fun.
I’d love to read feedback/experiences from others here who have done track days on their SH.
Maybe we can get several SH together for a track day at Barber later this fall.
Saturday was a fun day. I came in first – at least in my race.
My race was: Have fun and don’t crash.
It’s nice to win.
I thought I’d share some thoughts and ask for input from other guys here who have done track days.
Here we go……
First a little about me and my bike.
I would consider myself a “good” rider. Comparisons are all relative.
Compared to the average guy rolling around town, who has never hung off, or been on a track, I’m probably a lot better.
BUT, compared to sport bike riders who DO hang off, drag knees, spin tires, have been on the track, etc., I’d say I fall mid-pack. Faster than some, and slower the others.
If “average good rider” makes sense, then that would be me.
My bike is a ’98. It has a Dynojet kit, Carbon Fiber slip-ons , braided lines and Galfer pads. Dunlop Qualifiers and is otherwise stock.
My first track day a few months back I was in Beginner group. There are 3 groups: Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced. Pretty quickly it was obvious that there were a lot of guys in the B group who were truly beginners. There were about 5 or 6 of us who always left out at the front of the “faster” line when leaving pit row. It was, at times, a bit unnerving. No passing in B group except on straights. The pucker factor could get pretty high when you run all over a guy from behind entering a turn and then realize you can’t pass him. Anyways, I rode the best I could and had a great time.
This past Saturday I was back, this time in Intermediate group. It was a whole new world!
I went from the faster half (B group), to the slower half (I group).
There were only a very few guys who were notably slower than the rest, and there were a few who were notably faster than everybody else. I know a few of these faster guys got bumped to Advanced.
There were guys who appeared to be WERA participants. They had “real” numbers and stickers and safety wire. All the stuff that made you think they were racers, and I believe some of them were. They all seemed to be real good riders.
Then, there was me, and a guy on a modified SV650.
EVERY other bike was a modern sport bike (R1, R6, CBR 1000RR, CBR 600RR, GSXR 1000 and 600, Ninja 636, a few Ducatis, etc.) You get the picture.
Guys, I was, plain and simple: OUT GUNNED.
First off, a lot of the guys were just better riders than me. Like I said, I figure I was about mid-pack. Put a better rider on a better bike and it was “SEE ‘YA!!”
There were some guys on new sport bikes who I was able to pass. That was rewarding, only from the standpoint that I had an 8 year old bike that was not near a match for their equipment and I was able to make better time. Cool, but hey it wasn’t a race, and I DID keep that in mind.
I got to see, up close and personal, just how much better a new sport bike is than the SH.
I might be right beside, or right behind, or right in front of a new sport bike in a turn, but once out of the turn and onto a straight and they would check out.
My buddy (who got bumped to Advanced) was on an R1. He is a GOOD rider on a GOOD bike. I asked him to take a few glances to check his top speeds on the straights. He was at 150-155 mph. The best I ever saw was 125-130 mph. That’s a lot of difference. Sure, if I was a great rider, I could make up some difference in the corners. But, I’m not great, I’m good. Problem is, everybody else was good (or better) and had better equipment.
The last session of the day, I got a little frustrated and decided I was going to ride harder, and pass a few more people. I was able to do both and then realized that the bike – and tires! – were up to more than I had given them. A subtle reminder: I am good. I am not very good.
A better rider would have started where I ended and improved form there. But, I had a BLAST !! and plan to do it again this fall.
For those interested, here is a good video:
http://www.cryohold.com/videos/2006-...mr.stillie.wmv
The guy was in Intermediate Group on Sunday. It gives a very good “feel” for what it was like for me. His lap times are near identical to mine. He rides a Ducati and you get to see the “crotch rockets” pull away on the straights.
Based on my experience Saturday, the SH is a great bike for the street. But, the track strips off all the veneer, and imperfections (both rider and bike) explode to the surface.
The brakes, even with my upgraded lines and pads, seemed to be at their limit.
The OEM suspension is NOT race track ready/competitive.
The lower HP really shows on a big track. Once above 100 mph, torque is a almost worthless commodity. You have to have HP and the more the better. These guys had bikes singing at near twice the RPM I was turning and were making 30-40% more HP on bikes that weighed a good bit less.
Do the math.
They go faster!
In some places I was able to pull a little harder out of the turn and make up a little ground, only to have them pull away once the RPMs got high and HP began to rule.
So, I had fun.
I’d love to read feedback/experiences from others here who have done track days on their SH.
Maybe we can get several SH together for a track day at Barber later this fall.
Saturday was a fun day. I came in first – at least in my race.
My race was: Have fun and don’t crash.
It’s nice to win.
05-22-2006, 12:34 PM
#2
Member
Squid
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 84
Ive never done a track day, and being that I spent most of my riding time in Kansas Im not very seasoned in riding in a twisty enviroment. Obviously a SH isnt close to being as worthy on the track as a modern inline 4... (hell even the newer 600's I wouldnt expect to keep up with on a track or the street with a good rider) But for what the SH is , and the fact that you got to run "your race" on Barbers I think thats pretty dang cool !!!
I'd love to go to one of the track days out there. I also want to ride to Deals Gap one of these days. Like I said, Im a newbie when it comes to this style of riding so Id just like to see what IM capable of before flirting with the bikes capabilities.
I'd love to go to one of the track days out there. I also want to ride to Deals Gap one of these days. Like I said, Im a newbie when it comes to this style of riding so Id just like to see what IM capable of before flirting with the bikes capabilities.
05-22-2006, 01:18 PM
#3
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nananimo, B.C.
Posts: 764
Make no mistake, the hawk is fantastic street bike but when the pace really picks up, street or track, well then your into a world that the bike was simply not designed for. Can it be ridden hard and fast? Yup, but you gotta be a dam good rider to overcome its shortcomings.
In comparison with true sport bikes/race reps, you can easily be a mediocre rider and run circles around the hawk, faster and safer.
In comparison with true sport bikes/race reps, you can easily be a mediocre rider and run circles around the hawk, faster and safer.
05-22-2006, 03:15 PM
#4
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
Don't worry about it man, you're never going to be able to dominate those other bikes, but if you keep going back you'll be able to pass more of them. I've been to about 10 trackdays now and everytime I go I try to focus on improving one thing, braking...shifting..etc. Can I pass R1's or gsxr 1000's on the straights...NO F'N way, but if I can come out of the corner harder then them I can hold them off longer and out brake in the next corner.
After about 4 trackdays I was starting to feel like I was testing the limits of the oem brakes and suspension. That's when I decided to do the front end conversion which also improved the braking at the same time. I saw a 320mm rotor conversin on kneedraggers but it cost as much as I spent on the whole front end and brakes. After getting that all sorted I replaced the shock and it's a completly different animal now. It feels nothing like it did stock and it's really confidence inspiring. Raised confidence = lower laptimes, it's all about confidence and if you're worried about if your brakes are up to the task you can't be confident.
BTW I was thinking of doing Barber in Sept. and there's also a $100 a day weekend at little Tally in July, let me know if you're interested. That all depends on if I join CCS and might be racing but that's up in the air right now. I've been fighting the urge but it's very strong like an ich you can't scratch.
After about 4 trackdays I was starting to feel like I was testing the limits of the oem brakes and suspension. That's when I decided to do the front end conversion which also improved the braking at the same time. I saw a 320mm rotor conversin on kneedraggers but it cost as much as I spent on the whole front end and brakes. After getting that all sorted I replaced the shock and it's a completly different animal now. It feels nothing like it did stock and it's really confidence inspiring. Raised confidence = lower laptimes, it's all about confidence and if you're worried about if your brakes are up to the task you can't be confident.
BTW I was thinking of doing Barber in Sept. and there's also a $100 a day weekend at little Tally in July, let me know if you're interested. That all depends on if I join CCS and might be racing but that's up in the air right now. I've been fighting the urge but it's very strong like an ich you can't scratch.
05-22-2006, 03:44 PM
#6
Hmm?
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 2,069
I get the same kick out of other people's reactions when they find out they were passed by a Superhawk. It makes the passing more rewarding.
After some more time spent in the saddle, you'll do a better job of carrying more speed through the turns than your friends do. That way, it will be harder for them to catch up to you on a straight.
Besides, straights are where you let your buddies catch up.
After some more time spent in the saddle, you'll do a better job of carrying more speed through the turns than your friends do. That way, it will be harder for them to catch up to you on a straight.
Besides, straights are where you let your buddies catch up.
05-22-2006, 03:50 PM
#7
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
Yep...my buddy I go with has a gixxer1000 and he's starting to get upset because he can't keep up anymore. 
But like Brian said the 2 main objectives are have fun and don't crash! Although one of the experts gave me some knowledge.....the more times you go the more likely you'll crash, just hope it's a minor one. :wink:
But like Brian said the 2 main objectives are have fun and don't crash! Although one of the experts gave me some knowledge.....the more times you go the more likely you'll crash, just hope it's a minor one. :wink:
05-22-2006, 09:00 PM
#8
Hmm?
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 2,069
I hear ya on the crashing. That is just inevitable, since you are pushing the envelope so much more. But, I'd much rather have the crash happen at the track than a less-controlled environment.
Or, just not crash.
I remember my very first trackday - the nervousness and anxiety did a number on me. But it was so much fun that I was hooked instantly.
Or, just not crash.
I remember my very first trackday - the nervousness and anxiety did a number on me. But it was so much fun that I was hooked instantly.
05-22-2006, 09:05 PM
#9
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
I was exactly the same way, I was so pumped and nervous at the same time I thought I might puke. Life long dream finally coming true blah blah blah. Almost wish I didn't try it because I'm lost in it now like I said I'm even thinking of doing some semi-serious racing now. Boy are tires going to get expensive!!! Take offs for sale.
05-24-2006, 10:17 AM
#11
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Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 406
Ah Frank! Glad to see you joined the forum.
It was a good day at Barber. Things went well in Intermdiate class.
I know I can get better in the turns and make up some lost time, but I still think the HP is just not a match for the new bikes on a big track like Barber.
There were several times I'd start rolling on the throttle exiting a turn right behind another rider. I was good-to-go for a short period of time. Sometimes I'd pull harder just out of the turn. But then, I'd get left behind.
All-in-all it is a good bike and is fun to ride. But, from a hardware standpoint, it think it is a bit unreasonable to expect an 8 year old SH to hang with current REAL sportbikes.
No matter what, it beats watching form the sidelines !!
Hope to see you back at Barber in the fall.
It was a good day at Barber. Things went well in Intermdiate class.
I know I can get better in the turns and make up some lost time, but I still think the HP is just not a match for the new bikes on a big track like Barber.
There were several times I'd start rolling on the throttle exiting a turn right behind another rider. I was good-to-go for a short period of time. Sometimes I'd pull harder just out of the turn. But then, I'd get left behind.
All-in-all it is a good bike and is fun to ride. But, from a hardware standpoint, it think it is a bit unreasonable to expect an 8 year old SH to hang with current REAL sportbikes.
No matter what, it beats watching form the sidelines !!
Hope to see you back at Barber in the fall.
05-24-2006, 10:56 AM
#13
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Superstock
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 284
You know the simple fact is it makes about a 100hp. Most 600s are close to the same power give or take. It wouldn't keep up with the inline four 1000s. Not a chance. But George rides a 650 in the advanced class so maybe you should give yourself some time to get use to it and what its good for.
Good to hear from you also, and I hope to get back soon to any track.
My rotors came in today!! Yepee. I also ebayed an exhaust system to lighten it up a little. Sweeeet
Good to hear from you also, and I hope to get back soon to any track.
My rotors came in today!! Yepee. I also ebayed an exhaust system to lighten it up a little. Sweeeet
05-24-2006, 11:11 AM
#14
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
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I used to just stick it in 4th and go not worrying about shifting and just concentrating on my lines. This was good for getting used to things but now that I'm shifiting more the 600's are no problem. The track I go to is also more tech and less speed though the back straight is the fastest part of the track and I only get up to about 135-140. I think you'd have more fun on a tighter track because it equals things out a bit more. At Jennings there's a video of 2 of the faster guys there 1 is on an older 600 and the other guy is on a 2005 gsxr1000 and the 1000 never really gets away. Have you gone to 15/43 gearing or is it still stock? I think for a track like that oem gearing would probably be better.
05-24-2006, 11:44 AM
#15
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 406
Frank,
Ironic you mentioned it: I just got off the phone with George.
My first track day I had 15/43 gearing. I went back to 16/43 for my second session.
There are some places where each would be better. I think I'll try another day with stock gearing (16/43) as I have done enough mental dissecting to have decided I know of a few better/smoother ways to pick shift points.
And, I also know that I can muster a better effort to keep up with the sport bikes. It will all be about corner speed for me. That is where I can make up time.
But hey,only 2 track days and I was lucky enough to be in the Intermediate group AND got to pass some guys, so there IS some reward there.
Thanks for all the feedback. This is a good thread.
Ironic you mentioned it: I just got off the phone with George.
My first track day I had 15/43 gearing. I went back to 16/43 for my second session.
There are some places where each would be better. I think I'll try another day with stock gearing (16/43) as I have done enough mental dissecting to have decided I know of a few better/smoother ways to pick shift points.
And, I also know that I can muster a better effort to keep up with the sport bikes. It will all be about corner speed for me. That is where I can make up time.
But hey,only 2 track days and I was lucky enough to be in the Intermediate group AND got to pass some guys, so there IS some reward there.
Thanks for all the feedback. This is a good thread.
06-05-2006, 01:04 PM
#16
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SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
My first trackdays were on my mostly stock VTR. I had a rear shock and a fork brace. Had a blast and it was plenty of bike to learn on. but I started thinking about how cool it would be to build the Super Hawk the way Honda should have built it in the first place. That was how my project/obsession began. The next year was a completely different story. big brakes sould stand the bike on it's nose and the torque would just gobble up a 600. really a fun project and I recommend it to anyone with the inclination. People are really surprised by a fast Super Hawk. Unfortunatley I crashed it being stupid on the street.
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