There's a hole in my boot! I mean tank.
03-20-2009, 01:08 AM
#1
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There's a hole in my boot! I mean tank.
So I was installing a fuel pump on my vtr today and after getting all my plumbing in I could not for the life of me figure out where a leak was coming from, and then it hit me. Right in the eye. My tank has a pinhole which was shooting a stream of gas a good 10 inches. I have no idea how it got there, doesn't look like any damage was done(i.e. dropped)... just a small 1 square inch patch which apparently was covering a hole until the shitty patch fell off. 
How the hell do I seal it? I suppose weld it, but thats gonna be tricky... is epoxy gas proof?
How the hell do I seal it? I suppose weld it, but thats gonna be tricky... is epoxy gas proof?
03-20-2009, 04:11 AM
#2
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It's rust...water is heavier than gas. Line the tank with Barbee gas tank liner. You can get it at a radiator shop. Remove the tank internals. Put a 10 inch piece of chain in the tank and shake it to clean out what you can. Rinse with a solvent. Follow the instructions on the Barbee can
03-27-2009, 09:32 PM
#5
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Well for anyone curious, I got the fuel pump mounted, wired, and plumbed, but on my way to a test ride, i noticed the headlight was out, and then my ignition fuse kept blowing. I have yet to find out why the ignition fuse was blowing (fuel pump was NOT wired into that circuit) but I think the fuses I got didn't make a good connection, and now that they're shoved down in there until I can get more everything seems fine. I think the fuel pump has totally eliminated my hard starting condition, but I am not positive yet. It was extremely hard to start before, but started perfectly after the pump was installed. I went to start it tonight after is had been sitting in 35 degree weather for 8 hours, and it did not start. The tank was upside down but still hooked up. I flipped it over and it started right up. I imagine fuel was not getting to the petcock, but due to the fickle nature of the bike I can't say if it was coincidental or not. Also, the fuel pump is self regulating, there is a diaphragm inside which, upon reaching a preset psi, shuts the pump off until the pressure drops. The pump is for an FZR, which off course had 4 carbs... I think the pump MAY be unseating the float needles and flooding the carbs. The only bases for this theory is that after the pump fills the carbs, it blips every second or two, which may be the pump forcing the float down. No gas has overflowed, nor has the bike stalled, so it's just a theory. Otherwise, I think the pump will work nicely. I'll try to get it buttoned up tonight and go for a ride and let you know how it worked out. Also I'll post pics of course.
03-27-2009, 10:12 PM
#6
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Any motorcycle with the tank higher than the carbs gets gas to the carbs by gravity feed. Same with many very old cars with a cowl mounted gas tank, like the Ford Model A.
So, like stated above, why a fuel pump?
So, like stated above, why a fuel pump?
Last edited by VTRsurfer; 03-30-2009 at 09:00 PM.
03-27-2009, 10:29 PM
#9
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The only carbureted Honda, that I know of, with a fuel pump is the original Gold Wing, starting in 1975. And that is because the "tank" is a dummy. The real tank is under the seat.
03-27-2009, 10:45 PM
#10
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For the third time, I think my petcock was leaking, and I had a fuel pump lying around. Some of us are students and have to make due instead of buying new parts, so if I wanted to ride my motorcycle, it was necessary. My flash quit working on my camera so I took a short video. It's uploading right now so you can see for yourself. Just to clarify, my bike has never started this well since I bought it. And I had all the parts lying around, so I say it was a success. It also forced me to get rid of that ugly reservoir in the engine valley, because I'm mounting the pump in its place. As a small benefit of the pump, Whenever I take apart the carbs, (more often than I'd like) I just turn the key on and it fills the carbs right away with no cranking. I'll post the video as soon as it uploads.
03-27-2009, 11:02 PM
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<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i213.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid213.photobucket.com/albums/cc125/jacobhendry/MVI_0194.flv">
Not sure if this going to work... if not here's a link.
http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/c...t=MVI_0194.flv
Not sure if this going to work... if not here's a link.
http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/c...t=MVI_0194.flv
03-27-2009, 11:06 PM
#14
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... I think the pump MAY be unseating the float needles and flooding the carbs. The only bases for this theory is that after the pump fills the carbs, it blips every second or two, which may be the pump forcing the float down. No gas has overflowed, nor has the bike stalled, so it's just a theory.
03-27-2009, 11:34 PM
#15
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Sorry Mav,
With the hours I'm working, my eyes glaze over on the longer posts. When I put some Mikuni HSRs in my car, I told the guy I bought them from I had a fuel pump. He reworked the float bowls so there wouldn't be a flooding issue.
With the hours I'm working, my eyes glaze over on the longer posts. When I put some Mikuni HSRs in my car, I told the guy I bought them from I had a fuel pump. He reworked the float bowls so there wouldn't be a flooding issue.
03-30-2009, 08:59 PM
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maverick, I owe you an apology. I was browsing the Firestorm UK Forum (vtr1000.org) and came across an article on installing a CBR600 fuel pump on the VTR. It states that under extreme track riding conditions fuel starvation can be a problem. Probably has to do with centrifugal force during long high speed sweepers.
I was thinking that you were undertaking an unnecessary, and perhaps dangerous project, but obviously I was wrong. And besides, judging from your video, it looks like you thought it out well.
I was thinking that you were undertaking an unnecessary, and perhaps dangerous project, but obviously I was wrong. And besides, judging from your video, it looks like you thought it out well.
03-30-2009, 09:07 PM
#18
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I'm not trying to fuel a fire(pun haha), so to speak, but my VTX is carbed and has a damn fuel pump. I suppose the back of the tank is just a bit lower than the carb lines, but still, I hate fuel pumps on carbed bikes, just one more thing that can leave you stranded (which I watched happen to a buddy).
03-30-2009, 09:45 PM
#20
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That's what you get for living in the weeds 
I watched a buddy's take a crap while we were cruising down the interstate, took us a bit to figure out what happened. This was only a few months after he had it replaced by a "reputable" mechanic. Oh yeah, and the mechanic had to order two fuel pumps the first time, because he burned up the first one when he "hooked it up to make sure it worked" without running fuel through it or anything to cool the pump.
I watched a buddy's take a crap while we were cruising down the interstate, took us a bit to figure out what happened. This was only a few months after he had it replaced by a "reputable" mechanic. Oh yeah, and the mechanic had to order two fuel pumps the first time, because he burned up the first one when he "hooked it up to make sure it worked" without running fuel through it or anything to cool the pump.
03-30-2009, 11:49 PM
#21
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maverick, I owe you an apology. I was browsing the Firestorm UK Forum (vtr1000.org) and came across an article on installing a CBR600 fuel pump on the VTR. It states that under extreme track riding conditions fuel starvation can be a problem. Probably has to do with centrifugal force during long high speed sweepers.
I was thinking that you were undertaking an unnecessary, and perhaps dangerous project, but obviously I was wrong. And besides, judging from your video, it looks like you thought it out well.
I was thinking that you were undertaking an unnecessary, and perhaps dangerous project, but obviously I was wrong. And besides, judging from your video, it looks like you thought it out well.
Don't even sweat it. No offense taken. I'm not even sure it will work yet. I haven't even been able to take it for a test ride. I'm not going to pretend I was considering centrifugal force in high speed turns... I just thought my petcock was malfunctioning (despite a good diaphragm) and had one lying around. I welcome your criticism. To my credit, though, It seems to start every time right away now... Perhaps the petcock wasn't letting enough fuel through...
Trust me, I am probably going to do a lot of stupid things which will make this look damn near rational...
Thank you though for the apology.
04-05-2009, 04:34 PM
#22
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Well I finally got it on the road with the new fuel pump to test it out... I have a few concerns. My bike still has absolutely no top end... but I'm sure it's the mains. Also after it warmed up it didn't want to idle well... Anyway it seems to have pretty much fixed my hard starting issue... which leads me to believe it was never the petcock in the first place lol. As I turn the key on, the pump fills the carbs, then blips on and off continuously... I wonder if perhaps the needle isn't seating properly in the float bowl... and perhaps it never was... allowing the carbs to flood when left alone... So I suppose I'll be looking at that now... as well as removing that ridiculous fuel pump... who's dumb idea was that anyway??
04-05-2009, 11:42 PM
#23
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I have a fuel pump fitted. It is a low pressure, internally regulated unit, commercially available from autopart stores. Previous to that I had a VFR750 pump (VFR has carbs and low pressure pump).
My needles (as in needle and seat on the floats) were a bit worn and it caused slightly poor running as you describe. New needles fixed that problem, and I have had no issues ever since.
Gravity fed fuel is ok on VTR's until you start modifying them a bit, and then they can suffer from starvation. It is possible that my bike may never suffer from this problem, but I fitted a pump anyway as insurance.
My needles (as in needle and seat on the floats) were a bit worn and it caused slightly poor running as you describe. New needles fixed that problem, and I have had no issues ever since.
Gravity fed fuel is ok on VTR's until you start modifying them a bit, and then they can suffer from starvation. It is possible that my bike may never suffer from this problem, but I fitted a pump anyway as insurance.
04-06-2009, 06:28 PM
#25
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No sorry, it was too long ago.
When I pulled mine out you could see a ring around them where the rubber was worn. If yours are the same then this could be your problem. The other possibility is your pressure could be too high, although if the pump is designed for carb use it should be ok. I think the old Honda VFR & CBR pumps run at about 3psi.
When I pulled mine out you could see a ring around them where the rubber was worn. If yours are the same then this could be your problem. The other possibility is your pressure could be too high, although if the pump is designed for carb use it should be ok. I think the old Honda VFR & CBR pumps run at about 3psi.
04-06-2009, 06:48 PM
#26
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hey shayne, what you think about this micro pump. Im trying to decide on using this pump or my vaccume pump.
http://www.mr-gasket.com/pdf/12S_42S.pdf
http://www.mr-gasket.com/pdf/12S_42S.pdf
04-06-2009, 06:50 PM
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04-06-2009, 07:28 PM
#28
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Something like that will work ok.
The VFR & CBR pumps work well because the hose size is the same as the VTR carbs, which is 8mm I think, so they fit right on. Also, both inlet and outlet are on the same end. These two points make fitting easier.
The VFR & CBR pumps work well because the hose size is the same as the VTR carbs, which is 8mm I think, so they fit right on. Also, both inlet and outlet are on the same end. These two points make fitting easier.
