jmathern

Hello to all of you knowledgeable Superhawk owners. My name is Jon, and I'd like to tell you a story:
In 2009 I bought my first and only motorcycle, a 2001 VTR1000F. I believe that it had around 8,000 miles on it, but like a dumb-*ss, I lost the original speedo. In 2006, this Hawk had been laid over, and put a hole in it's crank-case cover, scooping up sand in the process. I let it sit in storage with no work done to it until I got the idea to get it running August 2012.

I was successful in that endeavor. :-) Re-bent the forks (I know it was dumb to ride it that way, but it was very stable), Cleaned out all the liquids, rocks that I could get to, replaced cover, gaskets, right radiator, new (used 12,000mi)speedometer, battery, front fairing stay from Saige, and a few small parts here and there. Vroom!!! No varnishing of the carbs, and she fired right up!

Here is where I'm at:
I have had ideas of powder-coating all sorts of parts on the VTR, including frame, sub-frame, wheels, and swing-arm. So, being that as it may, I had to remove my tires due to wear and thought since I was breaking things down, I might as well go all the way. Removed my forks, so I'm looking for straight tubes. I am down to the engine block on the bench, and I am stuck trying to figure out if I should tear into the engine or not?

I have about $5000 to spend, and here is the list of things that I would like to do:

Inner Fender $161.00
Upper Fairing $345.00
Lower Fairing $258.00
superdutyd CCTs $70.00
Tires (Conti Sport Attack 2?) $243.00
Front & Rear Brake rotors $270.00
16/42 Sprockets $100.00
520 chain $110.00
lightened flywheel $150.00
Radiator hose Kit $200.00
Wind Screen $100.00
Wheel Bearings $65.00
Tail light w/ blinkers $108.00
Headlight projector $150.00
R & L Radiators $147.00
Gear Indicator $145.00
Speedo Healer $84.00
Braided Brake/Clutch Lines $225.00
Front Forks tubes, springs $355.00
Valve Shim Kit $70.00
Jet Kit $73.00
Brake Pads BREMBO $150.00
EBC Complete Clutch Kit $200.00
Speedometer Clear Upper $80.00
FP Shifting kit $200.00
999 Mirrors w/ lenses $182.00
Fuel Tank $175.00
PAIR Block off plates $20.00
Painting $500.00

TOTAL: $4936

Questions and or suggestions?
I have to go right now, but I will be back later this evening with a more thorough inquisition. :-)

~Jon

smokinjoe73

Hey Jon. Welcome to the forum.

Those mods and prices, where did you get the prices? They are pretty high. Do you not plan to do the work yourself? Why a clutch? These stockers last a real long time.

I mean, $189 for mirrors? Woof. I put gsxr mirrors with running/turn lights for like $40.

RWhisen

Jon-

You need to spend more time figuring what the best mods are to put on the bike.

Most folks clear up the engine CCTs first thing. Second usually go the forks, valves and springs followed shortly by the brakes. Then you can pick up a rear shock and you'll be all ready for the bling.

Buy the way, the prices you have quoted are higher than a cat's back on most items.

cat0020

I'm pretty sure you could find a running VTR w/no damage for less than $4500.

RWhisen

He could buy mine for 4k.

jmathern

Thank you for the quick response guys.
I have been doing a lot of research on prices, and those are what I came up with from, Factory Pro, (Shark Skinz alone is 764 w/o shipping), vortex sprockets, & ebay. I feel stupid now, because I have no idea where I should be looking.... What should I be paying for these mods, and where should I be getting them?

Smokinjoe73:
I do plan on doing all the work myself, (With all of your help of course :-))I was having problems with the clutch slipping, so I thought if I was going to tear it down to strengthen the springs, might as well go for the whole thing. The mirrors are Ducati 999 mirrors, taken the idea from Mike at CTS Moto, because I really like the look.

RWhisen:
I do need your help in figuring out where the money would be best spent. I do have on my list a few of your suggestions though, i.e. CCT, Forks, & Brakes.

jmathern

Okay, here is the break-down

Performance or needed: CCTs, Tires, 16/42 Sprockets, 520 chain, lightened flywheel, Wheel Bearings, Front Forks tubes, springs, Valve Shim Kit, Jet Kit, Brake Pads, Clutch Kit, FP Shifting kit, Fuel Tank (VFR800 tank), Wind Screen
TOTAL: $2061

Cosmetic: Inner Fender, Upper Fairing, Lower Fairing, Radiator hose Kit, Integrated Tail light, Headlight projector, Front & Rear Brake rotors, Painting
TOTAL: $1992

Not as necessary: Gear Indicator, Speedo Healer, Speedometer Clear Upper, R & L Radiators (mine aren't leaking anymore after using aluminium radiator stop), 999 Mirrors, Braided Brake/Clutch Lines, PAIR Block off plates
TOTAL: $883


It looks like the majority of my money is going in to needed or performance parts. If there are things that you would like to add to any of these lists, and why, it would be greatly appreciated.


I'm sure all of you have seen this before, but I thought that I would go ahead and show the mirrors.

~Jon

Tweety

The clutch tends to slip when you run the oil too long between changes... Pick one type of oil, and stick to that over a couple of oil-changes, doing it at proper intervalls, and it usually goes away... If you want to "fix it" anyway, since you have the engine on the bench, just open it up and have a look at the condition... I'm almost certain the plates and springs are fine at that mileage, so it would just be a waste of money IMHO...

jmathern

Hey Tweety!
I have read so many of your posts, and really have enjoyed your knowledge and sarcasm! :-)
I think the issue with my clutch is the crappy oil I put in it. It was Diesel 15w40 API-CJ4 From Peak. PEAK | Diesel | Motor Oil | Auto Products

The oil was in there this whole riding season (1500 miles), and I'm pretty sure I should have gone with Rotella T or something now. Here is what the symptoms were. Everyday, I would go for a 25 mile drive to get a coffee in the nearby town and everything would work fine. After 20-30 minutes of the bike sitting there while I drank my coffee, something would happen....? When leaving, that is when I would get the slipping, and it would occur in 1-4, but by the time I got past 4 I was cruising anyway, so I never really noticed it.

If indeed it is the oil, doesn't that crap soak up a bit in the clutch plates?

~Jon

Wicky

Try a motorcycle 10W-40 semi-synthetic oil after thoroughly flushing the old oil out. Fully synthetic oil for diesel vehicles isn't the way to go.

Fit manual CCTs and replace R/R (esp. if unfinned) as priority to ensure engine doesn't implode/electrics cook themselves. Upgrade front suspension innards and replace shock with a better aftermarket unit. Fit tires and pads to suit. Replace all fluids.

If you have rorty cans get them jetted to suit along with whatever airfilter you're running. Budget for some dyno time (with someone experienced with the VTR) to get it all tuned and running in harmony.

While doing CCTs fit a front cylinder vacuum take-off for easy carb balancing.



For reference > Factory Honda Service Manual >98-03_VTR1000F_NoRestriction.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/?5u5qsfqgh9f9ejg

Removed restrictions in the Honda Superhawk (Firestorm) Service Manual PDF and was able to run it through OCR so the manual is now text searchable - Enjoy


The Workshop Knowledgebase - www.vtr1000.org

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=31

jmathern

Thank you Wicky! :-)

I have been a member of this forum for a while, but just started this thread, and I am very please with everyone's prompt and thorough responses! Thank you all so much! I am hoping that this will only be a 6 week project, and I will continue to post all of my inquiries, (the ones I haven't already searched for) right here if that would be alright?

I had planned on replacing my R/R, but based on your comment, the attached image shows that my R/R is Finned. Is it necessary to replace the one pictured?

Where is the best place to get new (or straight) fork tubes and innards? I have been Jamie's page, but he is kind of pricey..... Sorry dude! ;-( I weigh 230lbs (104Kg) Though I may be down 15-20-lbs by the time I start riding again! ;-)

What are "Rorty cans?"

I have NO idea what this means, "While doing CCTs fit a front cylinder vacuum take-off for easy carb balancing"
I do have the entire service and user manuals, both in searchable form.

I really am going to do this all myself, but it looks like I am going to need a bit more guidance..... I am a quick learner, but please bare with me as this is my first endeavour.

My main concern is the engine. Because it is sitting on the bench, do I invest a little $ & time to put some upgrades in? I would like a little more 'umph' which I believe translates to rwhp. lol I want to tear in to it, but I am a little cautious because I do not know what I can afford, let alone do with the tools and budget in front of me.
I'm not sure I want to break the bank with new cams, pistons, and I don't even know how to, nor have the tools for porting and milling heads, etc....

Are there any mods that you would suggest?

Sorry for repeating myself there... ~Jon

Wicky

If your major concern is horsepower (and trackday handling) it would be more economic to get an RC51, otherwise contact Roger of Revolution Racing in the UK who has experience of race tuning VTRs using (rare & expensive) moriwaki performance parts.

http://www.revolutionuk.co.uk

That R/R should tide you over - though you can fit an even better mosfet version.

Straight Forks - New from a Honda dealer if in stock, or keep an eye on ebay for second-hand. Search for thread for a guy who got a replacement fork leg from China. Alternatively transplant the front end of a CBR, SP or whatever you can craft on. Plenty of threads on the forum on the subject if you search.


What are "Rorty cans?"

boisterous and high-spirited. Freer breathing less baffled & lighter exhaust cans.

Tweety

The finned or non-finned stock R/R is fairly well known for imploding at innoportune moments, leaving you stranded, or taking out the battery... Also poosible, but less common that it kills other more expensive components... Getting a Mosfet R/R from a newer bike is a good way to save yourself a lot of headache and cost in the future... search for "mosfet" on the forum and there is a whole thread dedicated to it...

The CCT's are the other maintainance related upgrade you rellay want to do... Either manuals, or a fresh set of OEM is fine, more a choice of your taste...

And what wicky was talking about, there is a vacuum port on each cylinder, one is connected to the petcock, the other is either capped or connected to the PAIR depending on where in the US you are... That second one, if you put a nipple on there, and a piece of hose, then you clamp that shut, and fish it out when you do the carb sync, it's a damned sight easier than fiddling at the port...

"rorty"... I dunno, but I guess he means non-OEM exhaust cans, probably... Then setting up the carbs for optimum performance is a good idea... And really, honestly, that's about it in terms of engine upgrades on your budget, cans and carbs... If you want to do more inside the engine, and do the work yourself, I'd figure your enntire budget times three, or there abouts...

jmathern

I have absolutely no intention on taking my bike to the track, just a little more "get-up-and-go" while riding around in town, and interstate punch if needed..... Any suggestions?

I looked at a few of the threads that had front-end swaps, but I am more interested in keeping the original forks and just upgrading the internals. Any suggestions on that?

Cans.... It came with "Staintune" and I do like the sound of them, (though could use a little more throat/deep end) Thinking about running a K&N or BMC. I realize that when I do jet my carbs (as much as I fear f'ing that up) that there will be a lot of tuning involved.
Factory Pro Stage 1, or Dynojet Stage 1?

~Jon

E.Marquez

Great point, and even better.. there are bikes for sale here on this list at that price very well set up..

Part out the bike you have make some money..
Buy a new bike, using money you have..

Use money from part out to MOD the new bike.

7moore7

Wow there is a lot going on here!

I had a similar rebuild process, you can clicky on my picture in my signature if you want to read through it.

Here are my personal takes

1) Spend way less than $5000. This bike isn't worth that money unless you really know what you're doing and have well thought out goals and an end game.

2) It will likely take you more that 6 weeks with everything you're doing. That's OK. Think of it as a working project rather than something to finish otherwise you'll rush too much.

3) Engine upgrades are not necessary IMO in this situation. If you tune and clean the carbs, shim the valves, do all the little stuff like CBR stick coils, TPS adjustment, and that kind of thing this bike is strong in the motor department. The one thing I would suggest if you really want something is a lightened flywheel... relatively easy to install and will give it that little bit faster spinup. Leave the cams, valves, clutch, pistons, ECU alone. You won't get much return on investment with those things unless you're racing or are already very good at riding this bike.

It's amazing the difference between a decent carb setup and a really good carb setup. It's just utilizing what you've got to get much more consistent and usable power.

4) Look into suspension upgrades. There is a "best mod" thread on here with some recent discussion in that department (with some disagreement haha!), but if you're looking to spend money to make your bike compete with the newer stuff, a re-worked front end with properly adjusted forks will go a LONG way. If you're against USD (which I love BTW), get a fork brace and make sure you install it properly. USD is actually a pretty simple swap, though.

5) Avoid K&N if you're just starting to tune the carbs. Only a few people can get those running right, and an OEM stock filter with 8541Hawk's carb setup thread I am very confident in recommending. You will have more usable oomph than you need. In this bike it's not a cut and dry upgrade, especially for street riding.

That's my take. I did the same thing when starting with my bike, wanting more hp and not caring much about the shitty stock suspension. If that's what you're going for, sell what you've got and put that money into a hyabusa.

Edit: You can also powder coat the engine covers

7moore7

This option will save you time and money, but if you're in it for the project keep going the route that you are OP!

sailorjerry

springs and valves arent cheap, but go on the classifieds and find the 98 part out post. 19superchicken98 has a complete fork set for sale for $200, not sure if you can haggle with him or not, but when i was stripping his bike down for the part out i checked over them and they were straight. just thought i would throw in my .02

jmathern

What would be the benefit to installing these:
Honda VTR1000F Super Hawk 996 Valve Shim Kit 1998 2005 | eBay

I thought the research I did indicated that it would be a positive upgrade to my engine, and give me that little 'extra.' Any advice on these?

~Jon

Shane702

jmath, hi im shane my friend... you have got the hawk bug, but with everything i've learned, listen to what these guys are saying.. the engine itself is very strong alot of these guys bikes are 60,000-80,000 miles... my .02 i am surprised i havn't seen is get Stainless Steel galfer lines and double h brake pads, forks redone, suspension, levers(unless u like original), pro shifter kit (helps the 1-2nd hard jump), but I 100% agree with the hours and hours i've spent learning and reading what these guys have to say, also think about investing in a sargeant seat ... becuz ur *** will hurt after 30 minutes of riding with no suspension upgrade haha!

jmathern

I completely agree that this needs an upgrade to the seat. I am actually going to do it myself. I will be cutting out some of the foam and replacing it with a Gel AND Memory foam insert. I looked up the "how to" on this, and it seem very feasible for me to do myself.
This is a MUST, due to me selling all of my possessions , and I think that I will be taking a tour around the country for the next year after this is complete. :-)

~Jon

Shane702

thats great, then listen to these guys 100%! make sure you get you rr replaced right away, tweety has a very detailed how to and explains the whys and hows, did mine within a few days of buying bike

jmathern

Unfortunately I do not have the funding to do this all at once, but I am trying to create a plan that has me ordering parts in the order I need to put the Hawk back together. I have attached an image of where I am at now. The next orders of business are:

1- Lightened flywheel
2-CCT's and PAIR Plates
3- Factory-Pro Shift kit (Where do I go to get this as opposed to paying full retail?)
4-EBC Clutch kit (pricing suggestions?)
5-Gaskets
6- Valve Shims?????? (Are they necessary for "more umph"?)

I have over $700 for those parts alone..... damn

~Jon

RWhisen

125 miles at a time?

Having valves opening the correct spec and closing is always necessary for more "umph".

matt365

Shims have nothing to do with "more umph".


Each valve has a bucket and shim to keep the specified gap between the cam lobe and the valve.

Shims are necessary when adjusting this gap when the valves are found to be "out of spec".

With only 8000 miles on the clock, I highly doubt you have to adjust the valves.

jmathern

See anything wrong with this picture!?!

I was trying to remove my "Clutch Center" and broke one of the mounting pegs. I am a fricking idiot!!!!! I need to remove this to put the new "Shift-Pro" on, and without the Proper holder, I am at a loss. I guess because it's ruined, I will go to town trying to get this thing out!!

Sh*t!!!

I guess Screw the valve shims.... I'll be replacing the basket!
~Jon

E.Marquez

The right tool ,is a clutch hub holding tool

I prefer that type, and is what I use.

But have made them to fit as well


SOme use a adjustable type that look much like a pair of vice grips with LOOOOng arms.

A impact gun will spin the nut off with ease....., baring that, you need to use a proper tool, and a long ratchet handle.

jmathern

What is the part number for that, or are they all the same? I will order one ASAP if I can make sure it's the correct one I am ordering....
~Jon

E.Marquez

They are different for each bike,,,, about $14 each.. I have a dozen or so.

The one for the VTR1000F is CT009

98 05 Honda VTR1000F Superhawk EBC Motorcycle Clutch Basket Removal Tool CT009 | eBay

EBC Clutch Removal Tool CT009

7moore7

Hey man, just reading through this again, how much time have you spent looking at mods?

I know you're dealing with it now, but why were you taking the clutch basket off? I really don't think you needed to... and if you just keep ripping into your motor you're likely to cause more unnecessary problems...

Here's what I'm thinking. What bike did you have before the SH? The reason I ask is because this bike is smoking fast when tuned correctly, even in the stock configuration. I would hold off on trying to "upgrade" until you know that it's running correctly. I get that **** eating grin when I open it up, and never feel like I need more power. It may be running well and you just want more, but my GUESS is that it's not running properly if you're on a power hunt. The other reason is, if you get the bike running really well for a couple of weeks, then install a flywheel, it will feel that much better.

You can't buy unobtainable and plug it into the electron drive, or swap for a stage two turbo to get you to the next level. It's more of a rare bike than the i4's, so bolt on upgrades and advice are a little more scarce, especially when searching for things like "superhawk" on e-bay.

Don't buy a valve shim kit until you know that you need it. Open up your valve covers and measure the lash. If you don't know how to do this you definitely won't know what to do with a shim kit (it's not especially hard to use, but there are a lot of steps). If the lash is out of spec, THEN buy the kit, otherwise it won't do you any good.

What I'm getting at is to run through the bike well, check all the maintenance things that the manual says (notice it doesn't even say to check valve lash until 24k miles). Set your TPS, sync and clean the carbs, replace the fluids, etc. It doesn't sound as exciting but man it's nice to have a smooth running Honda.

If you want other upgrade options, there are other cool things than just "power". You can get an eastern beaver headlight relay which will make your current headlight way brighter. You can get a MOSFET R/R which will make the electrical system much more reliable. You can shim the rear to get a faster turn in geometry.

All in fun! It's awesome to see someone so eager to jump in, I'd just caution buying things left and right.