NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
07-27-2004, 03:10 PM
#5
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
That drawing looks a tad 'sporty' for the Superhawk replacement. The "sport" side is handled rather well by the RC51. Unless honda Drops the RC51 and replaces it with "do all" revised SH, I don't think Honda's gonna redo the SH. It sells well as it is, and it's far enough away market wise from the RC51. It COULD use an update to better compete with the SV1000 and similar "standard" and "semi-fared" V-Twin's out there, but I dont' see honda doing it anytime soon. I think the SH is going to end up like the Concours...never ending, but never changing either.
07-27-2004, 11:14 PM
#6
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
I think the RC51 being dropped is quite likely as Honda now races the CBR1000RR. So, if Honda went to just having one v-twin sportbike offering it would make sense for a SuperHawk revision. I find it funny that after all these years the SH still looks great...unlike the SV1K which just came out.
07-28-2004, 01:21 PM
#7
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I kinda like the sv 1000's look. If I was in the market I might take a hard look at one of those.
You figure that not alot of choices out there when it comes to a v-twin sportbike without going into RC territory.
You have the S/Hawk, a SV 650 or 1000 or ducati/aprilla ($$$) What other sporting V-Twins are there?
I think if Honda could improve the handling and brakes on the s/hawk and add fuel injection, maybe bump up the horses a bit(I'd like to see 140 hp)and give it a little facelift, you'd have a killer bike with very little competetors(SP)
You figure that not alot of choices out there when it comes to a v-twin sportbike without going into RC territory.
You have the S/Hawk, a SV 650 or 1000 or ducati/aprilla ($$$) What other sporting V-Twins are there?
I think if Honda could improve the handling and brakes on the s/hawk and add fuel injection, maybe bump up the horses a bit(I'd like to see 140 hp)and give it a little facelift, you'd have a killer bike with very little competetors(SP)
07-28-2004, 03:43 PM
#8
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
140 is a pipe dream. You'd have to get to "race" level of technology/parts in order to get 140 WHP out of 996cc. Then the SH would be as expensive as the Duc's. (look at the 998R or 999R).
In order to get the 120 out of the RC, they had to compramise the powerband down low (compare a SH dyno to a RC51 dyno).
I'd be happy if they could match the 120 of the RC51/SV1000/TL1000R but keep the stout bottom torque/midrange.
If Honda kills the RC, then I could see a more "sporting" SH. If Honda kills the SH, the I could see a more "Civilized" RC come out.
The "new" SV-S's look like Oragami, not motorcycles. Aprilia started that look with the "Futura" and dammit, everone seems to have copied it. I much prefer the smooth rounded lines of the SH, the original SV, The 'busa...etc...
KTM is going to come out with their 998 V-Twin street fighter (semi-fared) sometime in 05. There's always Moto-Guzzi if you like your cylinders sideways. Cagiva was also working on a V-twin...but it's in the "italian" price range. Who knows, maybe Kawi will suprise folks with a V-Twin sporty, or maybe Yamaha? (updated V-Max minus 200 lbs?)
In order to get the 120 out of the RC, they had to compramise the powerband down low (compare a SH dyno to a RC51 dyno).
I'd be happy if they could match the 120 of the RC51/SV1000/TL1000R but keep the stout bottom torque/midrange.
If Honda kills the RC, then I could see a more "sporting" SH. If Honda kills the SH, the I could see a more "Civilized" RC come out.
The "new" SV-S's look like Oragami, not motorcycles. Aprilia started that look with the "Futura" and dammit, everone seems to have copied it. I much prefer the smooth rounded lines of the SH, the original SV, The 'busa...etc...
KTM is going to come out with their 998 V-Twin street fighter (semi-fared) sometime in 05. There's always Moto-Guzzi if you like your cylinders sideways. Cagiva was also working on a V-twin...but it's in the "italian" price range. Who knows, maybe Kawi will suprise folks with a V-Twin sporty, or maybe Yamaha? (updated V-Max minus 200 lbs?)
07-29-2004, 12:49 AM
#9
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
The present FireStorm/SuperHawk apparently has an emmission issue, so there does need to be some modification to the engine to comply with the laws. Fuel injection, a gearbox re-work,.. and a few refinements could only help is sales.
More horsepower is nice,.. but I thing that higher torque and improved fuel consumption would be of greater appeal.
Maybe just sharpen up the lines as per the new CBR1000RR.
More horsepower is nice,.. but I thing that higher torque and improved fuel consumption would be of greater appeal.
Maybe just sharpen up the lines as per the new CBR1000RR.
07-29-2004, 12:57 AM
#10
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
Those things would certainly be nice. The SH is in its eighth year of production with only one (very small) update having taken place in 2001.
EFI, better suspension, brakes, more range (little bit bigger tank plus EFI should provide better fuel economy), a smoother shifting transmission, maybe a little bit more grunt, and a mild restyling would just about do it...
EFI, better suspension, brakes, more range (little bit bigger tank plus EFI should provide better fuel economy), a smoother shifting transmission, maybe a little bit more grunt, and a mild restyling would just about do it...
08-13-2004, 05:50 AM
#11
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
The Honda NAS is supposed to be the next-gen Hawk:
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_01_honda_nas/
8) TJ 8)
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_01_honda_nas/
8) TJ 8)
08-13-2004, 07:17 AM
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Not sure that a simple power/suspension upgrade is the way to go. The frame needs a redesign... Tuned Flex was great back in 1997 and for 100hp, but I doubt it will stand up to ~120hp and a much improved suspension.
My choice would be either kill the bike off, or replace it with an entirely new model. I would rather not have a kludged current bike with upgrades.
My choice would be either kill the bike off, or replace it with an entirely new model. I would rather not have a kludged current bike with upgrades.
08-13-2004, 04:30 PM
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
I took a look at the NAS,.. and I do like the engineering side. I appreciate the level of thought that has gone into it,.. but I don't feel that I would buy one. I wondered why they did not go to a clean looking shaft drive, considering what they have done to the front end.
The relationship between seat hight and bars, plus, the upper portion of the NAS offers no weather protection.
If the FireStorm/SuperHawk is dropped I will consider moving to the Honda STX1300, XL1000 V ,.. or maybe the Buel lightning bolt !
The relationship between seat hight and bars, plus, the upper portion of the NAS offers no weather protection.
If the FireStorm/SuperHawk is dropped I will consider moving to the Honda STX1300, XL1000 V ,.. or maybe the Buel lightning bolt !
08-13-2004, 05:25 PM
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Personally, I don't think that I would upgrade to another Superhawk. It has been around the same way for so long that any changes should be a new bike. Kinda like the Hawk GT to the SuperHawk. Maybe a SuperHawk GT to fill the void of the outgoing RC51 (if/when it does) and a standard SuperHawk based on the current bike with some MINOR tweaks (EFI, Forks).
I can see doing springs/valves on my front end, and MAYBE a new shock and that is as far as I will go. If I want more performance, I will likely go with a used RC51 or possibly a 600RR.
The Current 'Hawk suits my needs as a daily commuter and weekend carver. If I those needs change, then I will get a bike to suit them, not change the 'Hawk for what it wasn't designed for.
You are never going to find a "Do-It-All" bike...
I can see doing springs/valves on my front end, and MAYBE a new shock and that is as far as I will go. If I want more performance, I will likely go with a used RC51 or possibly a 600RR.
The Current 'Hawk suits my needs as a daily commuter and weekend carver. If I those needs change, then I will get a bike to suit them, not change the 'Hawk for what it wasn't designed for.
You are never going to find a "Do-It-All" bike...
08-20-2004, 11:36 AM
#15
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Re: NEW Super Hawk / Fire Storm
Has anyone ever played the Playstation 2 game called "Riding Spirits"? The game is not all that great but you can earn and buy a Superhawk(Firestorm) on the game, Also if you beat the game you will win the Honda prototype bike, NAS, and you can ride it in the different tracks. It sucks on the game because you cant do any performance mods to it. While with the Superhawk you can make it track ready on the game. Im not really into the gaming thing, but when I cant get out to ride, Ill play the game to sort of keep my mind somewhat involved in riding. I heard that the Moto GP2 game was pretty good, but I like being able to ride my Superhawk in the game. Has anyone ever played MotoGP2? If so can you ride a Superhawk in that game? 
08-20-2004, 03:45 PM
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I can't help but think that as v-twin owners and riders we're in something of a marginal market with most of the new riders entering motorcycling going for i-4 motors. Most seem to be of the opinion that v-twins are for newbies, geezers and and Italia snobs.
I know that's rubbish, but reality and marketing just aren't related.
I ended up on a superhawk by accident when I traded it for my KTM Supermoto (I needed a commuter).
Having been a lifelong thumper addict I relish the way a big vee makes power and have no desire to ever go the i4 route. They're are fun in a whiney kind of way but I don't think I could live with one.
Contrary to the calls for more power out of the VTR, I'd say go in the opposite direction.
Anyone who wants outright power will buy a CBR1000RR. Take the Superhawk back in the direction of the NT650 and make it a light, flicky and credible competitor to the SV650.
My personal choice of any V-twin available today?
Tuono.
That thing is just such a hoot to ride!
I know that's rubbish, but reality and marketing just aren't related.
I ended up on a superhawk by accident when I traded it for my KTM Supermoto (I needed a commuter).
Having been a lifelong thumper addict I relish the way a big vee makes power and have no desire to ever go the i4 route. They're are fun in a whiney kind of way but I don't think I could live with one.
Contrary to the calls for more power out of the VTR, I'd say go in the opposite direction.
Anyone who wants outright power will buy a CBR1000RR. Take the Superhawk back in the direction of the NT650 and make it a light, flicky and credible competitor to the SV650.
My personal choice of any V-twin available today?
Tuono.
That thing is just such a hoot to ride!
08-20-2004, 04:47 PM
#17
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Contrary to the calls for more power out of the VTR, I'd say go in the opposite direction.
Anyone who wants outright power will buy a CBR1000RR. Take the Superhawk back in the direction of the NT650 and make it a light, flicky and credible competitor to the SV650.
My personal choice of any V-twin available today?
Tuono.
That thing is just such a hoot to ride!
Anyone who wants outright power will buy a CBR1000RR. Take the Superhawk back in the direction of the NT650 and make it a light, flicky and credible competitor to the SV650.
My personal choice of any V-twin available today?
Tuono.
That thing is just such a hoot to ride!
The Tuono is supposed to be a bucket full o' fun; but it is godawful to look at IMHO. Now the Falco on the other hand...
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