New Seat design
08-28-2012, 06:05 AM
#1
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
New Seat design
Im working with a company that makes a end user install-able seat kit on the OEM seat pan.
They have done some really nice things for the dirt, SuperMoto and Dual Sport folks.
I asked them to consider doing a seat kit for the VTR and was told,, YES..
The OEM seat is in the mail to them today.. but the company owners and lead designers have asked for some info...
"Can you compile a list of complaints or changes you feel need to be addressed?"
So what say you... What needs to be different.
Wider, softer, taller, shorter, harder..... what issues do you have with the VTR seat?
They have done some really nice things for the dirt, SuperMoto and Dual Sport folks.
I asked them to consider doing a seat kit for the VTR and was told,, YES..
The OEM seat is in the mail to them today.. but the company owners and lead designers have asked for some info...
"Can you compile a list of complaints or changes you feel need to be addressed?"
So what say you... What needs to be different.
Wider, softer, taller, shorter, harder..... what issues do you have with the VTR seat?
08-28-2012, 06:11 AM
#2
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
I'll start..
Firmer foam, just a bit wider base....Slight curve needed...
The biggest reason I asked them for a new seat kit is, the cover of mine has a busted seam...... but if I can get a new cover AND a better foam base,,,thats a win win.
Oh and the company is Seat Concepts Seat Concepts
Have a look at what they have built in just a few years on the market.
I have no affiliation to the company or it's owners, except as an observer and customer.
Firmer foam, just a bit wider base....Slight curve needed...
The biggest reason I asked them for a new seat kit is, the cover of mine has a busted seam...... but if I can get a new cover AND a better foam base,,,thats a win win.
Oh and the company is Seat Concepts Seat Concepts
Have a look at what they have built in just a few years on the market.
I have no affiliation to the company or it's owners, except as an observer and customer.
08-28-2012, 06:23 AM
#3
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 211
It needs to be slightly wider in the front to hold your thighs a bit more. Also needs to have less of a down-slope into the tank (I had found I slide into the tank when riding straight). A more defined *** groove might help keep the bum fitted on the seat. A firmer foam base with an outer soft foam for comfort might also prove useful.
08-28-2012, 07:22 AM
#5
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: northwest Arkansas
Posts: 242
Ive only put 7,000 miles on mine with stock seat only, and i have same issues with sliding into tank when slowing down quickly or normal, im 6'6 at 240 lbs. so it gets a lil bit uncomfortable at times, thats about it 'cept to be a lil more cushion would be nice if i ever do any distance. Have a great day guys
08-28-2012, 09:41 AM
#7
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,478
The stock seat is too flat. Riding downhill and braking hard your nuts will smack the tank without a lot of upper body exertion.
I disagree it needs to be harder, if anythign it needs to be softer, at least on the surface so you sink in a bit.
I agree a less costly alternative would be attractive, better yet with an optional backrest like the Corbin Gunfighter offers.
I disagree it needs to be harder, if anythign it needs to be softer, at least on the surface so you sink in a bit.
I agree a less costly alternative would be attractive, better yet with an optional backrest like the Corbin Gunfighter offers.
08-28-2012, 09:55 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 1,082
Wasn't someone else working on this awhile back, I seem to remember them looking for a used seat as a template, offered up an extra seat I had in exchange for a free "kit" but never heard back.
Last edited by E.Marquez; 08-28-2012 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Mistake, nothing edited
08-28-2012, 10:06 AM
#9
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 576
I agree with the comments on less slope into the tank. I think firmer foam would be good as long as it's wider and more contoured to your butt. Also some sort of breathable cover material so you butt doesn't sweat so much on hot days making your pants sticky. On that same note it'd be nice if the cover was waterproof so when it gets rained on the rain doesn't soak into the seat.
08-28-2012, 10:21 AM
#10
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Crushing nuts needs adressing, and wider/flatter/contoured, and while I cant decide if the foam needs to be firmer, or softer, or two layers of both, it certainly needs to be better in some way...
I'd buy it if it was reasonable... I have a Sargent that I'm not to happy about the idea of cutting up to mate to a VFR tank... So that project is kind of on hold, as I'm looking for DIY material for the foam... So this came at the right time for me...
I'd buy it if it was reasonable... I have a Sargent that I'm not to happy about the idea of cutting up to mate to a VFR tank... So that project is kind of on hold, as I'm looking for DIY material for the foam... So this came at the right time for me...
08-28-2012, 02:26 PM
#12
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 582
something a bit more comfortable for long rides. I have the Sergent seat but even that gets uncomfortable after 3 or 4 hours. I, too, end up with my boys up against the tank a lot. Maybe a slight curve up at the tank and a pad some what like the new bicycle seats that supports my *** on two sides. Otherwise, I like my sergent seat as long as I take a break each time I stop for fuel.
08-28-2012, 04:31 PM
#13
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 700
Keep in mind that the angle of the seat can change the ergonomics also. A leveler seat with stock clip ons will cause more curvature of the spine, possibly making it even less comfortable. It doesn't need to be softer, just concaved to hold you in place. A concave will place the pressure on your glutes instead of your tail bone.
As far as sliding into the tank, maybe use a material that offers more grip than the slippery stock covering. Tank grips help tremendously to keep you off the tank also.
As far as sliding into the tank, maybe use a material that offers more grip than the slippery stock covering. Tank grips help tremendously to keep you off the tank also.
08-28-2012, 05:12 PM
#14
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
08-28-2012, 05:15 PM
#15
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
The seat does need to be formed to fit somewhat, but the seat makers position is, firm but not hard for the foam.
Me? I don't know,, Im an Infantry man not a seat maker.. so if thats what the seat makers say is best.. Im going with that.
08-28-2012, 05:57 PM
#17
Member
Squid
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 33
I have an idea, how about a lip at the tank to help protect our nuts. Good example of this would be......a seat similar to the ones that were on the FZR 600/1000s (I owned a 600). Just thought I would throw this out there.
08-28-2012, 06:27 PM
#18
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ABE PA
Posts: 423
How about this? A kind of groove or void down through the center (creating room by removing resistance), along with the upward kina swept-ness to help curb nut smashing? The groove would be nice because sometimes I like to rest my feet at the rear pegs and my chest on the tank bag for highways (those of you who've done this know what it entails when you see a bump in the road coming!)
08-29-2012, 09:03 AM
#19
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
Keep in mind that the angle of the seat can change the ergonomics also. A leveler seat with stock clip ons will cause more curvature of the spine, possibly making it even less comfortable. It doesn't need to be softer, just concaved to hold you in place. A concave will place the pressure on your glutes instead of your tail bone.
As far as sliding into the tank, maybe use a material that offers more grip than the slippery stock covering. Tank grips help tremendously to keep you off the tank also.
As far as sliding into the tank, maybe use a material that offers more grip than the slippery stock covering. Tank grips help tremendously to keep you off the tank also.
If they want to be really innovative, they can built a seat with the ability to change the angle, that will be a hit on any bike. We all have different heights and seating positions, I believe that would be the ultimate kick *** seat!!!
08-29-2012, 01:16 PM
#20
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 700
You just touched a very important factor!!!
If they want to be really innovative, they can built a seat with the ability to change the angle, that will be a hit on any bike. We all have different heights and seating positions, I believe that would be the ultimate kick *** seat!!!
If they want to be really innovative, they can built a seat with the ability to change the angle, that will be a hit on any bike. We all have different heights and seating positions, I believe that would be the ultimate kick *** seat!!!
Or a design similar to a see-saw. One base under the foam running the length of the seat, but make the bottom of the base a slight V. Underneath the base, two rods running side to side on inclined runners, one on each side of the fulcrum. If you want to raise the rear of the seat, adjust the rear rod backwards to lift it up, same with the front. A simple ratchet lock will hold the rods in place, and the V shape makes it possible to adjust one end without the other being able to move. Ill make up some schematics when I'm on a PC, I'm intrigued now.
Last edited by aja; 08-29-2012 at 01:18 PM.
08-29-2012, 02:40 PM
#21
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
I think this may be one approach... My only previous complaint with the stock seat was the tank sliding issue. Without changing anything, I learned to just squeeze the tank to keep the gems compression free. At first it was weird, but now I don't notice at all, ride with better posture, and feel like I'm in better control of the bike. In fact, I forget that it was an issue until I get a passenger on board who quickly reminds me the first time we stop. Same thing with pressure on the wrists, sore legs, etc...
08-29-2012, 02:56 PM
#22
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
I will forward the idea, but it's not like anything in the lineup at this time, so may be long time in development and production.
It's easy to come up with a "simple way to make the perfect seat" on an internet forum, but something else to design it, manufacture it, and sell it in large enough numbers to make the financial obligation to the R&D. All I can do is ask…
Though I think what we are looking at is a foam base that addresses what a foam base can, and a cover in one of several materials available.
User controllable air lifts and the like.. well, not even well established seat manufactures are doing that.. so makes me think it’s not feasible as a design, as a production capability, at a price point that can be sold, or that a large enough number of buyers have not expressed an interest. Maybe we are the first…
08-29-2012, 04:09 PM
#24
Administrator
MotoGP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,402
08-29-2012, 07:26 PM
#25
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
The only time I could think of it being a problem is if I wanted to sit on a hard drive... but that's only like twice a week so I could probably find an alternative method.
On another note, if I were in the market for a new seat, it would be nice to see some type of protection on the lower two front corners. When I set my seat down on a flat surface (garage floor/bench), those corners get worn very quickly... now I have to set it down with that in mind rather than placing it anywhere. Maybe another layer of leather or kevlar or something...?
On another note, if I were in the market for a new seat, it would be nice to see some type of protection on the lower two front corners. When I set my seat down on a flat surface (garage floor/bench), those corners get worn very quickly... now I have to set it down with that in mind rather than placing it anywhere. Maybe another layer of leather or kevlar or something...?
08-30-2012, 10:14 AM
#27
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
If we add to many options,(two lifts, two types of cushion, etc) we will arrive with an expensive seat. Now don't get me wrong, I'm also, all for the better. However, we will probably be getting away from our original goal, and that is a better then stock, but within reasonable price. Just saying.
08-30-2012, 04:28 PM
#28
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
I don't know? With all these ***** smashin into the tank, maybe we just need to fabricate a jock with a shock. JD will probably be able to figure something out if you send him your underwear.
seriously, with all the diff body and bar configurations it would be difficult to satisfy everyone's needs. Definitely a little firmer foam for me and a good tank pad for two up riding.
seriously, with all the diff body and bar configurations it would be difficult to satisfy everyone's needs. Definitely a little firmer foam for me and a good tank pad for two up riding.
08-30-2012, 06:37 PM
#29
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 700
So heres what I came up with. A few issues to be addressed are:
1. When the front or rear of the seat rises, the material needs to move with the foam. The first and easiest way I can see to remedy this is to incorporate a section of elastic material in those areas. If youre like me, you like a more refined finish. The way I would do it would be to leave the sections that lift a little loose with extra material that can be trained to fold into the creases when closed, much like the BMW seats here:
The front section under your knees moves forwards and backwards. When extended, the section pulls on one side of a piece of leather, and the other side is attached to the seat, closing the gap.
2. The idea I came up with would lift a plastic base that covers the seating area of the seat. When one side is lifted, it lifts up the foam. The seat itself never moves, its really just pushing the foam around. A fully adjustable seat is possible, well actually a fully adjustable sub frame is possible, but that would take more skills and money than it would be worth.
So my design is a box with a top that moves. This would be part of the seat base, but this section is floating. The top is a smaller rectangle that fits inside of the housing, with the bottom notched to allow adjustment. The rollers could be just steel bar that runs side to side.
The rollers would sit in a ratchet style lock that is cut into the sides of the housing.
Unit inside of a seat
Move the rear roller backwards, and the foam is pushed up in the rear
And opposite for the front
Thats it. If I can get my hands on a stock seat for cheap I might even attempt to make one.
1. When the front or rear of the seat rises, the material needs to move with the foam. The first and easiest way I can see to remedy this is to incorporate a section of elastic material in those areas. If youre like me, you like a more refined finish. The way I would do it would be to leave the sections that lift a little loose with extra material that can be trained to fold into the creases when closed, much like the BMW seats here:
The front section under your knees moves forwards and backwards. When extended, the section pulls on one side of a piece of leather, and the other side is attached to the seat, closing the gap.
2. The idea I came up with would lift a plastic base that covers the seating area of the seat. When one side is lifted, it lifts up the foam. The seat itself never moves, its really just pushing the foam around. A fully adjustable seat is possible, well actually a fully adjustable sub frame is possible, but that would take more skills and money than it would be worth.
So my design is a box with a top that moves. This would be part of the seat base, but this section is floating. The top is a smaller rectangle that fits inside of the housing, with the bottom notched to allow adjustment. The rollers could be just steel bar that runs side to side.
The rollers would sit in a ratchet style lock that is cut into the sides of the housing.
Unit inside of a seat
Move the rear roller backwards, and the foam is pushed up in the rear
And opposite for the front
Thats it. If I can get my hands on a stock seat for cheap I might even attempt to make one.
