Metzeler or Michelin
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Metzeler or Michelin
Need to change my tires soon and I will not go back to Dunlop. I’m leaning towards the Metzeler and Michelin because 4WO-Motorcycle Accessories is offering me a good price on these tires. Any suggestions? I want a set of tires for commuting and some weekend track riding. Thanks for any help.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
The first set of tires I got for the hawk were Metzeler and I can honestly say they sucked on the hawk, tire compound was too hard, they always broke loose durring hard cornering.
Since then, I have bought nothing but Michelin's, 2 sets of PP2, and now Im on my first set of PP3's. I can safely say the michelin's will not let you down.
Since then, I have bought nothing but Michelin's, 2 sets of PP2, and now Im on my first set of PP3's. I can safely say the michelin's will not let you down.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,864
From: Fort Wayne, IN
The best tires are Dunlops - no question. The Q2 or Q3 cannot be beat for the street and even trackday riding. If you must run something try Bridgestone BT016's. Do not use anything that starts with an M and you will be ok.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,864
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Folks who run stock suspension get a false sense of "performance" with stiff carcass tires because they can mask some of the ill-effects of their suspension. This does not mean the bike's performance has increased, however. In fact the opposite is most often true. Your tires are what touches the ground so it is important to understand what you have.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
They are used a lot here too, but people do not realize what they are getting. Michelin tires are have a stiff carcass construction and take a long time to generate heat. I've found that you need to be on the track to push enough temperature into them before they function properly. Q's and BT's a solid right out of the driveway.
Folks who run stock suspension get a false sense of "performance" with stiff carcass tires because they can mask some of the ill-effects of their suspension. This does not mean the bike's performance has increased, however. In fact the opposite is most often true. Your tires are what touches the ground so it is important to understand what you have.
Folks who run stock suspension get a false sense of "performance" with stiff carcass tires because they can mask some of the ill-effects of their suspension. This does not mean the bike's performance has increased, however. In fact the opposite is most often true. Your tires are what touches the ground so it is important to understand what you have.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,544
From: New South Wales Australia
I have run Michelin pilots and 2cts on my bike and now run Dunlop D209 Sportmax Qualifiers and can't believe the difference.
I have a few suspension mods and a braced swinger and fork brace as well.
When I put these tyres on it was because they were cheap and I was looking at a long ride of 2500 Klms to get my bike home.
I thought that there was no point putting Michelins back on for that trip as they are way more expensive.
I couldn't believe the difference it made to the bike, I reckon it has something to do with the sidewall construction and the fact that our frames are not up to the latest and greatest tyres .
These tyres have transformed the bike, and it rides better all round with the Dunlops.
I have tracked them, I have done long trips,I have flogged them over mountains in wet and dry and just love them to bits.
They are made in France and I get them shipped to my door for $350- Aust so I think they are a bargain.
I was very iffy about fitting them in the first place , but now I worry about what I would replace them with.
Couldn't agree with Jamie more about Dunlops.
Like I say to my mates about being married to a lady for 33 years, many a good tune been played on an old fiddle and the same goes for these Dunlops!!!!!!
8,000Klms and still got a little bit left on the rear!!!
I have a few suspension mods and a braced swinger and fork brace as well.
When I put these tyres on it was because they were cheap and I was looking at a long ride of 2500 Klms to get my bike home.
I thought that there was no point putting Michelins back on for that trip as they are way more expensive.
I couldn't believe the difference it made to the bike, I reckon it has something to do with the sidewall construction and the fact that our frames are not up to the latest and greatest tyres .
These tyres have transformed the bike, and it rides better all round with the Dunlops.
I have tracked them, I have done long trips,I have flogged them over mountains in wet and dry and just love them to bits.
They are made in France and I get them shipped to my door for $350- Aust so I think they are a bargain.
I was very iffy about fitting them in the first place , but now I worry about what I would replace them with.
Couldn't agree with Jamie more about Dunlops.
Like I say to my mates about being married to a lady for 33 years, many a good tune been played on an old fiddle and the same goes for these Dunlops!!!!!!
8,000Klms and still got a little bit left on the rear!!!
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,544
From: New South Wales Australia
Horses for courses, and I guess that is what can be said about tyres.
What suits me won't suit you but hey when you find a good tyre you stick with it.
There was a thread on one of the forums a while ago about tyres and it was an early press release from Honda saying that the frame of our bikes was suited to tyres that allowed it to flex. They said it was tuned for a particular type of tyre and I think that the Dunlops I run could be that tyre based on how they perform under a wide range of riding conditions.
If I had to say the best thing that I like about them it would be the feedback when you are on the edge. They give plenty of warning, I have had them slide a few times when really on the anchors or gassing it super hard out of a corner. Reckon they have saved me a few times but they are bordering on knackered now so I have sourced another set to go on.
Happy days!!!!
What suits me won't suit you but hey when you find a good tyre you stick with it.
There was a thread on one of the forums a while ago about tyres and it was an early press release from Honda saying that the frame of our bikes was suited to tyres that allowed it to flex. They said it was tuned for a particular type of tyre and I think that the Dunlops I run could be that tyre based on how they perform under a wide range of riding conditions.
If I had to say the best thing that I like about them it would be the feedback when you are on the edge. They give plenty of warning, I have had them slide a few times when really on the anchors or gassing it super hard out of a corner. Reckon they have saved me a few times but they are bordering on knackered now so I have sourced another set to go on.
Happy days!!!!
Thread Killer
SuperBike
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,093
From: Geneseo, IL
From the April 1997 Cycle World article 'The Great 916 Challenge', talking about the flex built-in to the Shawk chasis, they write, "The VTR's original-fitment Dunlop D204 radials were thus tailored accordingly, prompting the same Honda R&D staffer to warn us that fitting aftermarket tires could cause instability."
They later fit D207s and the Shawk handling "took a dramatic turn for the worse, making for a nervous, confidence-sapping ride."
They don't comment specifically on how the D204s were 'tailored accordingly'.
This was all with a stock bike - other than the D207s.
They later fit D207s and the Shawk handling "took a dramatic turn for the worse, making for a nervous, confidence-sapping ride."
They don't comment specifically on how the D204s were 'tailored accordingly'.
This was all with a stock bike - other than the D207s.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
I was going to say this, except I wouldn't touch a bridgestone buttcrax. If you absolutely wont run dunlops the Mich Pilot Power 2ct is a fabulous sport/track tire, but shows this in how quickly it wears
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 195
From: Chattanooga,TN
Tires are almost as subjective as oil choices. I like the new PP3 and have no problems getting or keeping heat in one on the street. When I bought this bike I put on a set of Q2's and have not been overly impressed or disappointed with them, they were on sale for $200/set so I gave them a spin. I averaged 2900 miles for a rear and twice that for the PP'3 on my 1st gen FZ1, which is 80 pounds heavier than the Hawk and has a two piece bolted together frame if you want to talk about flexing. Different people expect different things out of a tire. I expect 2500 miles out of a set and that's about it. Best tire I used in the rain was the Road 3's, but to me they have no grip when leaned over, I took them off and put the PP3 on the FZ. The PP3 is a replacement for the 2CT and the Pure, lapped a wet track faster than the 2CT and a dry track faster than the Pure. Pure was too squirmy for me on my R1, got greasy when hot and didn't inspire much confidence in the front end.
Picture is of the PP3 after about 2800 miles of nothing but Skyway and Deals last August-September, got slick on the way home the last trip.
Picture is of the PP3 after about 2800 miles of nothing but Skyway and Deals last August-September, got slick on the way home the last trip.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,510
Not Realy A Squid
Squid
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 93
From: Portland Oregon area
I just put a set of PR4s on a week and a half ago. So far I have put about 750 miles on them and have no complaints. I never heard bad things about Michelin till now (other than they are really proud of their stuff, meaning expensive) but heard a lot of positive things about the Pilot Roads.
I was extremely pleased with the Dunlop Q2s but was tired of only getting 2000 miles out of each of the last 3 rears.
A buddy new to ridding decided he wanted to take some sport touring trips and I could not afford 3 or 4 tires a summer. I should have over 3000 miles on the PR4s by July and will have a better idea how I like them then.
I was extremely pleased with the Dunlop Q2s but was tired of only getting 2000 miles out of each of the last 3 rears.
A buddy new to ridding decided he wanted to take some sport touring trips and I could not afford 3 or 4 tires a summer. I should have over 3000 miles on the PR4s by July and will have a better idea how I like them then.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 987
From: Asheville, North Carolina
Hard to argue with Jamie... Yet Metzeler.. M6s are Hard, when cold... 2miles and you can push it as far as you -have skill for......The michelin Road 3 is a good choice,
Bridgestone BT016 is what I am riding presently... The set is wearing quick... YET I have had some fun......
Bridgestone BT016 is what I am riding presently... The set is wearing quick... YET I have had some fun......
Not Realy A Squid
Squid
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 93
From: Portland Oregon area
Well I now have over 3200 miles on my PR4s and as promised here it is.
2 single day trips, one of 500 miles and another about 270 miles and a 3 1/2 day trip of just under 1500 miles. The remainder was commuting back and forth to work 22 miles each way about a third city streets the rest rural roads with some low mountain roads with plenty of curves. I have ridden in all conditions except snow or ice including rain hail including 100+ degree heat in the northern Sacramento valley. These tires now look noticeably used but not what I would call worn yet. The shape of the profile still looks the same as when new. I would guess that I will get 6000 to 7000 miles from them. Others may do better than that since I am hard on tires, I was wearing out Q2s in 2000 miles but I have seen others on this forum claim 4000 to 5000 miles.
So here is what I think. They are a little expensive but I believe they will last long enough to offset that. I do not like the feel of the front entering moderate lean angles but I got used to it. The shape of the tire is a little different than I am used to and as I lean I can feel it roll onto the flats at the sides of the tread. Only 2 things have caused them to slip, gravel on pavement and wet railroad tracks but no tire will do well in those conditions although the Q2s seemed better on wet steel. Wet pavement braking is phenomenal probably because of the sipping across the tread face but that is starting to scallop from hard braking. They always feel solid even into serious triple digit speeds.
If you need a tire that will last but you still want them to perform well in the turns I think they are a good choice. I do not think they will match a good sport tire like the Q2 in the corners but I have not run out of cornering traction yet. In the end I am happy with these and they where the right choice for my current needs. If you do not put them on the track I do not think you will be disappointed.
2 single day trips, one of 500 miles and another about 270 miles and a 3 1/2 day trip of just under 1500 miles. The remainder was commuting back and forth to work 22 miles each way about a third city streets the rest rural roads with some low mountain roads with plenty of curves. I have ridden in all conditions except snow or ice including rain hail including 100+ degree heat in the northern Sacramento valley. These tires now look noticeably used but not what I would call worn yet. The shape of the profile still looks the same as when new. I would guess that I will get 6000 to 7000 miles from them. Others may do better than that since I am hard on tires, I was wearing out Q2s in 2000 miles but I have seen others on this forum claim 4000 to 5000 miles.
So here is what I think. They are a little expensive but I believe they will last long enough to offset that. I do not like the feel of the front entering moderate lean angles but I got used to it. The shape of the tire is a little different than I am used to and as I lean I can feel it roll onto the flats at the sides of the tread. Only 2 things have caused them to slip, gravel on pavement and wet railroad tracks but no tire will do well in those conditions although the Q2s seemed better on wet steel. Wet pavement braking is phenomenal probably because of the sipping across the tread face but that is starting to scallop from hard braking. They always feel solid even into serious triple digit speeds.
If you need a tire that will last but you still want them to perform well in the turns I think they are a good choice. I do not think they will match a good sport tire like the Q2 in the corners but I have not run out of cornering traction yet. In the end I am happy with these and they where the right choice for my current needs. If you do not put them on the track I do not think you will be disappointed.
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 195
From: Chattanooga,TN
Well I now have over 3200 miles on my PR4s and as promised here it is.
2 single day trips, one of 500 miles and another about 270 miles and a 3 1/2 day trip of just under 1500 miles. The remainder was commuting back and forth to work 22 miles each way about a third city streets the rest rural roads with some low mountain roads with plenty of curves. I have ridden in all conditions except snow or ice including rain hail including 100+ degree heat in the northern Sacramento valley. These tires now look noticeably used but not what I would call worn yet. The shape of the profile still looks the same as when new. I would guess that I will get 6000 to 7000 miles from them. Others may do better than that since I am hard on tires, I was wearing out Q2s in 2000 miles but I have seen others on this forum claim 4000 to 5000 miles.
So here is what I think. They are a little expensive but I believe they will last long enough to offset that. I do not like the feel of the front entering moderate lean angles but I got used to it. The shape of the tire is a little different than I am used to and as I lean I can feel it roll onto the flats at the sides of the tread. Only 2 things have caused them to slip, gravel on pavement and wet railroad tracks but no tire will do well in those conditions although the Q2s seemed better on wet steel. Wet pavement braking is phenomenal probably because of the sipping across the tread face but that is starting to scallop from hard braking. They always feel solid even into serious triple digit speeds.
If you need a tire that will last but you still want them to perform well in the turns I think they are a good choice. I do not think they will match a good sport tire like the Q2 in the corners but I have not run out of cornering traction yet. In the end I am happy with these and they where the right choice for my current needs. If you do not put them on the track I do not think you will be disappointed.
2 single day trips, one of 500 miles and another about 270 miles and a 3 1/2 day trip of just under 1500 miles. The remainder was commuting back and forth to work 22 miles each way about a third city streets the rest rural roads with some low mountain roads with plenty of curves. I have ridden in all conditions except snow or ice including rain hail including 100+ degree heat in the northern Sacramento valley. These tires now look noticeably used but not what I would call worn yet. The shape of the profile still looks the same as when new. I would guess that I will get 6000 to 7000 miles from them. Others may do better than that since I am hard on tires, I was wearing out Q2s in 2000 miles but I have seen others on this forum claim 4000 to 5000 miles.
So here is what I think. They are a little expensive but I believe they will last long enough to offset that. I do not like the feel of the front entering moderate lean angles but I got used to it. The shape of the tire is a little different than I am used to and as I lean I can feel it roll onto the flats at the sides of the tread. Only 2 things have caused them to slip, gravel on pavement and wet railroad tracks but no tire will do well in those conditions although the Q2s seemed better on wet steel. Wet pavement braking is phenomenal probably because of the sipping across the tread face but that is starting to scallop from hard braking. They always feel solid even into serious triple digit speeds.
If you need a tire that will last but you still want them to perform well in the turns I think they are a good choice. I do not think they will match a good sport tire like the Q2 in the corners but I have not run out of cornering traction yet. In the end I am happy with these and they where the right choice for my current needs. If you do not put them on the track I do not think you will be disappointed.
RUNLEVELZERO #99
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,218
From: Skokie
What is good milesge for a VTR?
I have consistently passed 10k miles on the Avon Ultra Storm 1 & 2s...
I run a lot of flat land here and rain is always on the horizon, I mean belly washer monsoon precipitation. Other than being sensitive to tar snakes, they fly through 2-inches of aqua at 45+ mph without a hiccup if you don't do anything sudden (stupid). In the relatively meager roads we have to call "twisties" they rail through 110+ mph sweepers. The only instability is due to aerodynamics with a big rear top case. I can only speak in relative terms with my largely OEM front fork with Superbrace and massaged damping, and the rear up a touch with the Penske shock but it is very neutral in the tight stuff and does not fall-in or stand-up under brakes. I don't drag anything even with 1-inch lower and 1/2" back pegs when I run out to within 1/2" of the rear tread. I don't push the front so it is newish at 3/4" from the edge.
Unfortunatly the Avons have now shot up in price. Used to be $240 gave you a set less a $40 debit card! I'm looking at the PR4s and maybe a PP front could be in order but the Conti RA2s and Pirelli Angel GTs...
Lord of Rt41
I run a lot of flat land here and rain is always on the horizon, I mean belly washer monsoon precipitation. Other than being sensitive to tar snakes, they fly through 2-inches of aqua at 45+ mph without a hiccup if you don't do anything sudden (stupid). In the relatively meager roads we have to call "twisties" they rail through 110+ mph sweepers. The only instability is due to aerodynamics with a big rear top case. I can only speak in relative terms with my largely OEM front fork with Superbrace and massaged damping, and the rear up a touch with the Penske shock but it is very neutral in the tight stuff and does not fall-in or stand-up under brakes. I don't drag anything even with 1-inch lower and 1/2" back pegs when I run out to within 1/2" of the rear tread. I don't push the front so it is newish at 3/4" from the edge.
Unfortunatly the Avons have now shot up in price. Used to be $240 gave you a set less a $40 debit card! I'm looking at the PR4s and maybe a PP front could be in order but the Conti RA2s and Pirelli Angel GTs...
Lord of Rt41
Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 82
From: Chicago
I will need new tires after the weekend. I'm riding the driftless routes near La Crosse, Wi. By the time I get back to Chicago they'll be beyond the limit. I was planning on the PR'4s for the siping and longevity but I may run something different up front considering your input. I currently have pilot power pure and love the cornering but ate through the rear too fast. Thanks for the feedback!
