Let's take guesses at what the problem will be...
09-20-2016, 08:50 PM
#1
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
Let's take guesses at what the problem will be...
Yes, I've found the service manual link. No, haven't dug into it much. Not yet, anyways. Background:
Bike sat for awhile, and mice set up shop on top of the air filter. I was actually impressed they packed that much pink insulation in that air box. Luckily, the filter did it's job and none of it got by.
Problems:
- Bike is falling on it's face on acceleration, hesitating, etc.
- Would not idle unless I pulled the choke pulled slightly out. As an experiment, I bumped up the idle setting. I did have to turn the idle screw probably 5 or so full turns, a lot. But now I no longer need the choke to get it to idle smoothly.
- Decided to change the OEM plugs from 1999 and 20k miles. Put OEM plugs back in. The old front plug is, without a doubt, running rich. Rear plug, for being near 20 years old, looked fantastic. No sign of running lean or rich. It looked great.
- Hot or cold (with choke) bike will fire right up and idle all day and never skip a beat.
What I've done:
New OEM filter went in, and I put stock pipes back on (old ones had the bafflectomy done). The 2 small breather air filters, original I presume, had basically crumpled away. A huge thanks to whomever posted up the P/N for those. Bought a couple off Amazon for $1.50 a piece. I now have the lower air filter box off, still have not pulled the carbs.
I am not a carb expert, but simple diagnosing 101 tells me that if I figure out the cause of the front cylinder running rich, I'll be on my way to fixing the hesitation problem. And if I fix that, I'll probably have to turn the idle back down.
It's late and I need to call it night. I have a lot of bonding time with the service manual coming up. But in the mean time, does anyone have a guess on what the problem/solution might be? Part of me wonders where the heck the little breather air filters went after they disintegrated. Probably sucked into the intake only to get consumed by the piston and spit out the exhaust. I find it hard to imagine that little bits of foam would do much damage internally so quite frankly I'm not too concerned. But, foam pieces...get stuck in the carb and prevent air flow, causing it to run rich....?
And since I like taking **** apart, I took off that stupid black plastic cap on the back carb, just to see what was in there. Who woulda thunk it that Honda could compress a foot long spring into that thing?! I suppose it's time to consult the manual...
Bike sat for awhile, and mice set up shop on top of the air filter. I was actually impressed they packed that much pink insulation in that air box. Luckily, the filter did it's job and none of it got by.
Problems:
- Bike is falling on it's face on acceleration, hesitating, etc.
- Would not idle unless I pulled the choke pulled slightly out. As an experiment, I bumped up the idle setting. I did have to turn the idle screw probably 5 or so full turns, a lot. But now I no longer need the choke to get it to idle smoothly.
- Decided to change the OEM plugs from 1999 and 20k miles. Put OEM plugs back in. The old front plug is, without a doubt, running rich. Rear plug, for being near 20 years old, looked fantastic. No sign of running lean or rich. It looked great.
- Hot or cold (with choke) bike will fire right up and idle all day and never skip a beat.
What I've done:
New OEM filter went in, and I put stock pipes back on (old ones had the bafflectomy done). The 2 small breather air filters, original I presume, had basically crumpled away. A huge thanks to whomever posted up the P/N for those. Bought a couple off Amazon for $1.50 a piece. I now have the lower air filter box off, still have not pulled the carbs.
I am not a carb expert, but simple diagnosing 101 tells me that if I figure out the cause of the front cylinder running rich, I'll be on my way to fixing the hesitation problem. And if I fix that, I'll probably have to turn the idle back down.
It's late and I need to call it night. I have a lot of bonding time with the service manual coming up. But in the mean time, does anyone have a guess on what the problem/solution might be? Part of me wonders where the heck the little breather air filters went after they disintegrated. Probably sucked into the intake only to get consumed by the piston and spit out the exhaust. I find it hard to imagine that little bits of foam would do much damage internally so quite frankly I'm not too concerned. But, foam pieces...get stuck in the carb and prevent air flow, causing it to run rich....?
And since I like taking **** apart, I took off that stupid black plastic cap on the back carb, just to see what was in there. Who woulda thunk it that Honda could compress a foot long spring into that thing?! I suppose it's time to consult the manual...
09-21-2016, 02:15 AM
#2
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
Hard to tell,
Without history on what has been done to the bike previously would only be guessing !
Does it have a jet kit?
Is the TPS set correctly, Are the vacuum lines intact, is one of the coils faulty, have the mice chewed some wiring ?
Could be as simple as a carb synch or vacuum leak ?
Good luck, some pics might help !
Without history on what has been done to the bike previously would only be guessing !
Does it have a jet kit?
Is the TPS set correctly, Are the vacuum lines intact, is one of the coils faulty, have the mice chewed some wiring ?
Could be as simple as a carb synch or vacuum leak ?
Good luck, some pics might help !
09-21-2016, 05:41 AM
#4
Moderator
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 5,074
My guess is you have a small bit of ethanol residue in there that needs cleaned out. Sitting is the problem w/ eth. Check out this pic I took of a chainsaw carb I disassembled.
Did it sit in a climate controlled garage?
Did it sit in a climate controlled garage?
09-21-2016, 10:31 AM
#7
Junior Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
I see a good carb cleaning in your future 
. If the bike sat for a while and ran well before, you should seriously consider taking the carbs out and cleaning them thoroughly. Make sure you replace the gas in the tank as well.
I spend time on the Kawasaki Concours forum and the experts there swear by adding an ounce of TC-W3 two stroke oil to your tank if the bike is going to sit idle for a while. It is supposed to prevent the carbs from mucking up due to water in the gas. I use that in all my bikes and it seems to work great.
. If the bike sat for a while and ran well before, you should seriously consider taking the carbs out and cleaning them thoroughly. Make sure you replace the gas in the tank as well. I spend time on the Kawasaki Concours forum and the experts there swear by adding an ounce of TC-W3 two stroke oil to your tank if the bike is going to sit idle for a while. It is supposed to prevent the carbs from mucking up due to water in the gas. I use that in all my bikes and it seems to work great.
09-21-2016, 02:21 PM
#8
VTR virgin
Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 446
I agree with vkefalov; most likely the low speed circuit has got a clog from old fuel evaporating and leaving deposits behind, this affects idle and low throttle running. I would suggest that you remove the carbs and as a first step clean the float bowl and extract and clean the jets. The low speed jets are very fine, and the passages they feed into the floor of the carb under the throttle plate are also tiny. You might also invert the fuel tank and pull out the fuel screen and clean that.
The sub air filter foam leads into the underside of the vacuum diaphragm chamber. The black cap that you pulled off with the slinky spring houses the diaphragm that lifts the carb slides. You can carefully pull that out and clean out any debris hiding underneath.
The sub air filter foam leads into the underside of the vacuum diaphragm chamber. The black cap that you pulled off with the slinky spring houses the diaphragm that lifts the carb slides. You can carefully pull that out and clean out any debris hiding underneath.
09-21-2016, 09:52 PM
#10
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
I would 100% agree you need to carefully clean the carbs. Do them one at a time so as not to mix or mess up parts. Check the diaphragm and make sure the slides go up and down smoothly and come down slowly and controlled.
For sure dump the gas tank and clean it til its got no gunk to dump right back into your newly cleaned carbs (which it sure will if not cleaned)
After the trauma of cleaning the carbs, it wont be hard to convince yourself to put fuel filters in the fuel lines for the 5 minutes and $5 it will cost you.
I will bet a half a baloney sandwich that fixes the whole thing. But if you don't do the tank and filters thing, you will be reliving the nightmare in a week or less.
For sure dump the gas tank and clean it til its got no gunk to dump right back into your newly cleaned carbs (which it sure will if not cleaned)
After the trauma of cleaning the carbs, it wont be hard to convince yourself to put fuel filters in the fuel lines for the 5 minutes and $5 it will cost you.
I will bet a half a baloney sandwich that fixes the whole thing. But if you don't do the tank and filters thing, you will be reliving the nightmare in a week or less.
10-04-2016, 05:40 AM
#14
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
Finally got a chance to work on it some more. Here's what I found:
ANOTHER stink bug in the diaphragm on the front carb, along with some small pieces of foam filter (From the old mini air filters). Main jet I could see some day light through it, but definitively restricted. The other smaller jet was clogged, but some carb cleaner and help the from the air gun got it back to new. Not a whole lot of varnish in the carb bowl, but some was there. Gave both carbs a thorough cleaning, taking my time on everything. The front carb looked far worse than the rear carb, which matches the spark plug reading (Front was rich, rear looked perfect).
Button it back together...and it won't start. Cranks but no life. I stopped there, as it was late and I had to go to bed. But I was doing some searching on here, and got a plan of attack - verify fuel is coming from the tank.
I couldn't stand it, so I HAD to open the drain valves on the carbs to see if I was getting fuel. I am not. That was literally all I had time for before leaving for work. I searched for the infamous vacuum line on the petcock. I will have to check, and recheck, but I am 95% sure I have it hooked up correctly. Two fuel lines to the sides of the petcock (obvious), the overflow tube (obvious), and the vacuum tube. Mine has a plastic adapter, as the line coming from the tank is smaller than the vacuum tube going to the motor. Because of this adapter, I don't see how I could mis-match the vacuum line, as the line is too small to fit on the bottom of the petcock (isn't this what most people mistakenly hook it up to?)
Either way, at least I know what I am lacking (fuel). Will tackle it more tonight.
ANOTHER stink bug in the diaphragm on the front carb, along with some small pieces of foam filter (From the old mini air filters). Main jet I could see some day light through it, but definitively restricted. The other smaller jet was clogged, but some carb cleaner and help the from the air gun got it back to new. Not a whole lot of varnish in the carb bowl, but some was there. Gave both carbs a thorough cleaning, taking my time on everything. The front carb looked far worse than the rear carb, which matches the spark plug reading (Front was rich, rear looked perfect).
Button it back together...and it won't start. Cranks but no life. I stopped there, as it was late and I had to go to bed. But I was doing some searching on here, and got a plan of attack - verify fuel is coming from the tank.
I couldn't stand it, so I HAD to open the drain valves on the carbs to see if I was getting fuel. I am not. That was literally all I had time for before leaving for work. I searched for the infamous vacuum line on the petcock. I will have to check, and recheck, but I am 95% sure I have it hooked up correctly. Two fuel lines to the sides of the petcock (obvious), the overflow tube (obvious), and the vacuum tube. Mine has a plastic adapter, as the line coming from the tank is smaller than the vacuum tube going to the motor. Because of this adapter, I don't see how I could mis-match the vacuum line, as the line is too small to fit on the bottom of the petcock (isn't this what most people mistakenly hook it up to?)
Either way, at least I know what I am lacking (fuel). Will tackle it more tonight.
10-04-2016, 11:12 AM
#16
Junior Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Sounds like a petcock issue to me. Did you remember to switch it back on? Double-check your tubes connections, you should be able to find a photo of the lines going into the petcock on this forum.
With the choke pulled out, it should start in a few seconds even if the bowls are empty.
Good luck!
Vlad
With the choke pulled out, it should start in a few seconds even if the bowls are empty.
Good luck!
Vlad
10-04-2016, 11:47 AM
#17
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
Yes, the vacuum line goes on the back of the petcock. Not the bottom. The bottom nipple is the vent for the diaphram inside. Make sure your petcock is working correctly by pulling a vacuum on it and fuel should flow. If there is no flow, then your petcock is the culprit.
10-04-2016, 12:13 PM
#18
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
I never turned the petcock off, so shouldn't be a need to turn it on? Can't wait to go home and see what's up. I am hoping that I'm just an idiot in regards to these lines...much easier to swallow my pride on this than having to pull the carbs again!
10-04-2016, 04:16 PM
#19
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
Man am I ever glad I'm an idiot! Seriously. So...I didn't have the vacuum tube hooked up wrong. I, in fact, never hooked it up. Period. 
I had the tube hooked up for the over flow (I think that's what it is?)
Doubling checking the hoses, I find one hose not hooked up. Son of a bitch...you gotta be kidding me. Put it on the wrong nipple on the petcock for good measure (therefore repeating the extremely common issue...), looked at it again, and said "Hey idiot, the BACK of the petcock!" To be fair to every other person that's screwed this up, it does it very confusing when you're looking upside down at the tank.
Fired right up after about 4-5 seconds of cranking. It runs awesome. Hard to believe after mostly sitting for 9 years, that's all it took to get it running. New air filters, general carb clean. Fuel filter looked great, saw no reason to replace it.
Rode it a bit on the local roads. Forgot what a forgotten gem these bikes are. My R6 crushes in terms of handling, precision, braking, and well, just about everything while on the race track. But the comfy seating position and the torque for days v-twin makes this thing an awesome road machine, even if it is closing in on 20 years old!
Thanks to all that pitched in and gave their 2 cents...and thanks a million for the search feature!
I had the tube hooked up for the over flow (I think that's what it is?)Doubling checking the hoses, I find one hose not hooked up. Son of a bitch...you gotta be kidding me. Put it on the wrong nipple on the petcock for good measure (therefore repeating the extremely common issue...), looked at it again, and said "Hey idiot, the BACK of the petcock!" To be fair to every other person that's screwed this up, it does it very confusing when you're looking upside down at the tank.
Fired right up after about 4-5 seconds of cranking. It runs awesome. Hard to believe after mostly sitting for 9 years, that's all it took to get it running. New air filters, general carb clean. Fuel filter looked great, saw no reason to replace it.
Rode it a bit on the local roads. Forgot what a forgotten gem these bikes are. My R6 crushes in terms of handling, precision, braking, and well, just about everything while on the race track. But the comfy seating position and the torque for days v-twin makes this thing an awesome road machine, even if it is closing in on 20 years old!
Thanks to all that pitched in and gave their 2 cents...and thanks a million for the search feature!
Last edited by Otto Man; 10-04-2016 at 04:18 PM.
10-04-2016, 07:32 PM
#20
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Middletown, CT
Posts: 416
Yep the line with the "plastic adapter" is the fuel tank vent line not the carb vac line, all those lines drove me nuts so I put quick disconnects on the and sexed them so they couldn't be mixed up in a bourbon induced fog! Lol!
Last edited by Fastguy59; 10-09-2016 at 06:49 PM.
10-04-2016, 10:39 PM
#21
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
Way too much information! haha
10-05-2016, 12:56 AM
#22
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
Glad to see a result,
Fast guy,
I love a Boubon induced fog to the point where I have learn't not what to do to my VTR if you get my drift.
Current tipple is Rollins !
Do you have that in the States ? Sorry for the thread hijack, just curious !
Fast guy,
I love a Boubon induced fog to the point where I have learn't not what to do to my VTR if you get my drift.
Current tipple is Rollins !
Do you have that in the States ? Sorry for the thread hijack, just curious !
10-05-2016, 07:02 AM
#23
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,033
Fast guy you put a quick release on the vacuum line? Never saw someone do that.
I put a big white zip tie on the superfluous nipple to help me or anyone not put the vacuum line on it.
For some reason it didn't occur to me that a quick release was doable on air lines, only use them on fuel lines.
I put a big white zip tie on the superfluous nipple to help me or anyone not put the vacuum line on it.
For some reason it didn't occur to me that a quick release was doable on air lines, only use them on fuel lines.
10-05-2016, 07:49 AM
#24
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
10-05-2016, 01:27 PM
#27
Junior Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Otto Man, I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope it involves writing - you have the gift, man! With such a great ad, I would buy the bike just to meet the guy who wrote it!
Best of luck with the sale!
Vlad
Best of luck with the sale!
Vlad
10-05-2016, 01:56 PM
#28
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 240
Thanks guys. I've owned her as long as I've been registered on here (probably a few weeks before, since I more than likely looked this place up after buying it). Left it with my Dad after I joined the Marines, and it was time to pull her out from the back of the garage and get it running again (hence the thread).
I got hooked on track riding and racing, and haven't owned a street legal bike in a number of years. I have no self control while riding on the street. All the stuff in the ad about the license, killing bambi, etc, is 100% truth. I was gonna give it to my Dad, but he ain't no spring chicken and it's a little heavy for him and his bum knee that likes to randomly give out. If I sell it, I'll be looking at buying a 2nd gen SV650 for him.
I got hooked on track riding and racing, and haven't owned a street legal bike in a number of years. I have no self control while riding on the street. All the stuff in the ad about the license, killing bambi, etc, is 100% truth. I was gonna give it to my Dad, but he ain't no spring chicken and it's a little heavy for him and his bum knee that likes to randomly give out. If I sell it, I'll be looking at buying a 2nd gen SV650 for him.
10-05-2016, 10:47 PM
#29
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
Love your add, very funny and catchy
True patriot, like that too!! Not enough in my (Hypocritical pacifists *** business haters Toyota hybrids) neck of the woods.
Hate to see fellow hawker leave... wish you best of luck
True patriot, like that too!! Not enough in my (Hypocritical pacifists *** business haters Toyota hybrids) neck of the woods.
Hate to see fellow hawker leave... wish you best of luck
10-06-2016, 03:41 PM
#30
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,478
F me! That's like the best CL ad I have ever read!!! Like someone else already said, if you don't write for a living- you should!
Thanks for a great read. When I go to sell mine I will highly plagiarize the daylights out of your work.
