Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
12-11-2004, 11:40 AM
#1
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Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I've been riding for around 40 yrs with various bikes and have had the VTR since new in 2000. The Superhawk is the closest I've had to a sportsbike and I would consider myself a fairly conservative rider. I'm often wondering just what the limits of this bike are. Not that I want to push the limits on the street, but just to know what the limits are given an emergency situation. So.... a couple of questions:
1) How many of you regularly grind the pegs (or any other body parts) or have lowsided unexpectedly (all things being equal, dry conditions, good tires etc)
2) Is it posssible to lock the front wheel under braking (stock brake, good front tire etc
3) Is it possible to break the rear end loose under acceleration coming out of a corner with excessive throttle (again, good surface, tires etc)
Again just want to know he limits, without finding out the hard way :wink:
Cheers Vtwin
1) How many of you regularly grind the pegs (or any other body parts) or have lowsided unexpectedly (all things being equal, dry conditions, good tires etc)
2) Is it posssible to lock the front wheel under braking (stock brake, good front tire etc
3) Is it possible to break the rear end loose under acceleration coming out of a corner with excessive throttle (again, good surface, tires etc)
Again just want to know he limits, without finding out the hard way :wink:
Cheers Vtwin
12-11-2004, 05:40 PM
#2
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Based off track experience.
#1. Yes. (track only) About the same time as the stock footpegs(no feelers/extenders), the rear exhaust cans will drag, as will the sidestand "foot". Never been down (high or low), and plan on keeping it that way.
#2. In thoery, yes, I 've never done it though. I've managed semi-intentional small stoppies(rear wheel barely off the ground) while testing the braking power/feel, but never locked up the front wheel. Never really tried though. To afraid of fliping over.
#3. Yes (Track and Street) If you really WANTED to get the backtire to brake loose, opening the throttle while leaned over in a turn is a good way to do it. No I don't reccomend doing it, but it's the "easy" way. With a good aftermarket seat and a good rear shock setup right, you can get an amazing about of feedback as to what's going on at the back tire. Just keep opening the throttle faster and earlier and sooner or later, you'll feel the back end "slide" out on you. When it happens, don't close the throttle quickly, this will cause the back tire to suddenly hookup and possibly "highside" you. Instead, when you feel the "slide" reduce your throttle slowly until you feel the sideways motion stop.
If you're really interested in testing the limits of your bike, I HIGHLY reccomend taking a local track day/weekend or riding school. The experience you gain from truely pushing your limits(and the bike's) in a safe, controled environment is a great way to learn.
#1. Yes. (track only) About the same time as the stock footpegs(no feelers/extenders), the rear exhaust cans will drag, as will the sidestand "foot". Never been down (high or low), and plan on keeping it that way.
#2. In thoery, yes, I 've never done it though. I've managed semi-intentional small stoppies(rear wheel barely off the ground) while testing the braking power/feel, but never locked up the front wheel. Never really tried though. To afraid of fliping over.
#3. Yes (Track and Street) If you really WANTED to get the backtire to brake loose, opening the throttle while leaned over in a turn is a good way to do it. No I don't reccomend doing it, but it's the "easy" way. With a good aftermarket seat and a good rear shock setup right, you can get an amazing about of feedback as to what's going on at the back tire. Just keep opening the throttle faster and earlier and sooner or later, you'll feel the back end "slide" out on you. When it happens, don't close the throttle quickly, this will cause the back tire to suddenly hookup and possibly "highside" you. Instead, when you feel the "slide" reduce your throttle slowly until you feel the sideways motion stop.
If you're really interested in testing the limits of your bike, I HIGHLY reccomend taking a local track day/weekend or riding school. The experience you gain from truely pushing your limits(and the bike's) in a safe, controled environment is a great way to learn.
12-11-2004, 09:57 PM
#3
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
1) I regularly drag my pegs at the track, too. You'll want to be careful when you do slam it down, because the pegs can left the rear wheel off the ground (happened twice to me; luckily, the bike didn't toss me off). Just today, I experienced my first two-wheeled slide on the VTR (damp road), but thankfully it didn't last long and I was able to recover.
2) I've never done this, but I'm sure it's possible if you grab enough of the front brake.
3) Yes. Done it twice. Watch your throttle hand when coming off slow turns.
Hmmmm...somehow it seems like I'm only reiterating Random's comments.
2) I've never done this, but I'm sure it's possible if you grab enough of the front brake.
3) Yes. Done it twice. Watch your throttle hand when coming off slow turns.
Hmmmm...somehow it seems like I'm only reiterating Random's comments.
12-21-2004, 09:55 PM
#5
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I would say that the two performance-oriented "limitiations" of the VTR are the front and rear suspension. The slightly mushy front suspension can find an easy remedy with the addtion of a RaceTech fork spring kit, set-up for your weight. The rear suspension can also find a remedy, but it will cost you a little money: ~$740 US (plus installation) for a Penske shock tuned to your weight.
Even so, with the Penske shock mounted, you can get rid of peg-grinding by adjusting the Penske shock to raise the seat height and by leaning a little more off of the bike (becoming a knee-dragger) when entering curves.
The thing that I noticed most about high-performance suspension is that it makes the VTR both safer (more responsive) and more fun ride...Well worth the investment, in my estimation.
cheers,
--HotStreetVTR
Even so, with the Penske shock mounted, you can get rid of peg-grinding by adjusting the Penske shock to raise the seat height and by leaning a little more off of the bike (becoming a knee-dragger) when entering curves.
The thing that I noticed most about high-performance suspension is that it makes the VTR both safer (more responsive) and more fun ride...Well worth the investment, in my estimation.
cheers,
--HotStreetVTR
12-21-2004, 10:10 PM
#6
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
In terms of handling "limitations", one thing to watch on not only the VTR but also on all V-twin sport bikes is the "wiggle". The "wiggle" is the result of engine-braking when you downshift but are not on a straight line, as you should be in most situtations in which you would downshift safely. In short, because of engine-braking, on a VTR, you can easily end-up embarrased and on your **** if you don't follow the Motorcycle Saftey Foundation's rider-training maxim: "never downshift unless you are on a straight line."
cheers,
HotStreetVTR
cheers,
HotStreetVTR
12-22-2004, 03:25 AM
#7
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Hell, I've damn near ended up on my **** while downshifting in a straight line! If you don't rev match while downshifting the rear tire WILL hop.
07-12-2005, 03:42 PM
#8
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
>PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
>Hell, I've damn near ended up on my **** while downshifting in a straight line!
> If you don't rev match while downshifting the rear tire WILL hop.
--
If you don't rev-match when downshifting, you must be a total nOOb of a rider.. I understand that some of the riders schools (Keith Code comes to mind) brag about being able to teach you to properly downshift [d'OH .. match revs]
while braking *and* cornering all at the same time.
I'd like to take one of the racer school courses, though I've already discovered how to downshift/brake/corner .. ya got's ta blip the throttle with the palm of your hand (near the meaty part by your thumb) whilst braking with (I like the first two) fingers and steering this can be done with our without clutch.. I normally do use clutch on downshift (two fingers, again) -but not on upshift other than 1 - 2.
www.davidhartley.com
'02 shawk
traxxion dynamics reworked front shocks
shopping for Penske rear shock
braketech ulltralite fron rotors
galfer green pads (good, but will try Ferodo next time)
Two Brothers himounts (how to mount some kinda passenger pegs?)
>Hell, I've damn near ended up on my **** while downshifting in a straight line!
> If you don't rev match while downshifting the rear tire WILL hop.
--
If you don't rev-match when downshifting, you must be a total nOOb of a rider.. I understand that some of the riders schools (Keith Code comes to mind) brag about being able to teach you to properly downshift [d'OH .. match revs]
while braking *and* cornering all at the same time.I'd like to take one of the racer school courses, though I've already discovered how to downshift/brake/corner .. ya got's ta blip the throttle with the palm of your hand (near the meaty part by your thumb) whilst braking with (I like the first two) fingers and steering this can be done with our without clutch.. I normally do use clutch on downshift (two fingers, again) -but not on upshift other than 1 - 2.
www.davidhartley.com
'02 shawk
traxxion dynamics reworked front shocks
shopping for Penske rear shock
braketech ulltralite fron rotors
galfer green pads (good, but will try Ferodo next time)
Two Brothers himounts (how to mount some kinda passenger pegs?)
07-12-2005, 03:55 PM
#9
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A couple of comments:
Locking the front wheel when braking usually comes from grabbing too much brake suddenly. I know a guy who totalled his bike that way on the freeway!! Panic braking without enough load on the front wheel. Braking transfers weight to the front wheel. As more weight transfers, more braking force is possible.
Similarly, whacking the throttle open when leaned over will spin the tire even on a 600. Be gradual and smooth with all of your control inputs. Watch Valentino Rossi's hand camera and see how he applies the throttle and brakes.
and lastly, if you want to be near the limits of your Super Hawk, go to the track!
Locking the front wheel when braking usually comes from grabbing too much brake suddenly. I know a guy who totalled his bike that way on the freeway!! Panic braking without enough load on the front wheel. Braking transfers weight to the front wheel. As more weight transfers, more braking force is possible.
Similarly, whacking the throttle open when leaned over will spin the tire even on a 600. Be gradual and smooth with all of your control inputs. Watch Valentino Rossi's hand camera and see how he applies the throttle and brakes.
and lastly, if you want to be near the limits of your Super Hawk, go to the track!
07-12-2005, 04:19 PM
#11
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
In my limited experience on the street, without hanging off the bike, you gotta be way waaaaaay far over to grind the pegs. I've done it but only on 90 deg or more turns. Its only at peg grinding territory that I've reached the edge of my tires (ie: no chicken strips) and never ever have they slipped out on me at all except for one occasion where they were still cold. Even running hard over gravel around corners has been np (obviously there is a limit there though).
Its easy to skid the front tire with stainless steel lines so I would think you could do it, given enough force, with the stock set up.
There's plenty of torque to do burnouts or kick the back end out around a corner but you've gotta really want to do it. I wouldn't worry about it happening by accident.
In summary, imo, you can ride the snot out of it and it will NEVER let you down. I bet most street riders rarely use 70% of the bikes ability.
Its easy to skid the front tire with stainless steel lines so I would think you could do it, given enough force, with the stock set up.
There's plenty of torque to do burnouts or kick the back end out around a corner but you've gotta really want to do it. I wouldn't worry about it happening by accident.
In summary, imo, you can ride the snot out of it and it will NEVER let you down. I bet most street riders rarely use 70% of the bikes ability.
07-12-2005, 06:42 PM
#12
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
#1 - Yes. I hated grinding peg feelers. I took them off and am much happier grinding knee pucks and toe sliders.
#2 - never tried that. Hope I never have to.
#3 - my bike was not stock when I bought it and I have dropped one toothe on the front sprocket. When everything is working good and feeling right I can spin the back tire driving out of turns. That is my favorite.
I don't do wheelies. I don't feel comfortable doing them. (OK, power wheelies a little, but never balance it and ride a wheelie.)
I do feel comfortable playing with the back tire.
Different strokes for different folks.
Brian A
#2 - never tried that. Hope I never have to.
#3 - my bike was not stock when I bought it and I have dropped one toothe on the front sprocket. When everything is working good and feeling right I can spin the back tire driving out of turns. That is my favorite.
I don't do wheelies. I don't feel comfortable doing them. (OK, power wheelies a little, but never balance it and ride a wheelie.)
I do feel comfortable playing with the back tire.
Different strokes for different folks.
Brian A
07-13-2005, 06:42 AM
#13
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
#1. Possible, but I personally haven't done it. I hang pretty far off the bike in the tight stuff.
#2. Yes, it is quite possible. I have always practiced panic stops just to be ready when needed. Didn't help me with this although I did manage to pulse the brakes after lockup. The only good part of the experience was walking the corner and seeing lockup and release about every 3 feet.
#3 Yes, but after getting comfortable on the bike and learning throttle control it will be rare. I do it more in the winter months when the tires are cold and actually enjoy the occasional powerslide.
I prefer to use the "OK method". I make the sign for OK with my throttle hand then brake with 3 and do throttle with index and thumb. I have big hands so that works for me.
#2. Yes, it is quite possible. I have always practiced panic stops just to be ready when needed. Didn't help me with this although I did manage to pulse the brakes after lockup. The only good part of the experience was walking the corner and seeing lockup and release about every 3 feet.
#3 Yes, but after getting comfortable on the bike and learning throttle control it will be rare. I do it more in the winter months when the tires are cold and actually enjoy the occasional powerslide.
I prefer to use the "OK method". I make the sign for OK with my throttle hand then brake with 3 and do throttle with index and thumb. I have big hands so that works for me.
07-13-2005, 07:54 AM
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
#1 Pegs never grind for me, but this is my second pair of boot... maybe I ride the feet too wide open!!! 
#2 I've done this... once!!! I would like to try to make some front brake burn as with my previous CBR and I really don't liked this first experience!! VTR have poor front end compare to the CBR so I stop to do this, as well as stoppies, I'm crazy but not stupid!! Maybe I will retry after my CBR1000RR front end swap, but this is not certain...
#3 Very very funny
I've 2 or 3 low speed turns on my daily travel ( home to work ) and I like to make the rear end slide. But again, I must say that it very more difficult to get feedback while doing this than on the Fireblade. I hope my future Wilbers shock will help me to get more feedback, will see soon when I will get it...
There's something the VTR is made to do, others not, at least without experience or modifications... I think you had many great feedback above from experienced VTR rider and finding the limits of the VTR will also push you to find yours first...
Don't forget: Rubber side down
Cheers
#2 I've done this... once!!! I would like to try to make some front brake burn as with my previous CBR and I really don't liked this first experience!! VTR have poor front end compare to the CBR so I stop to do this, as well as stoppies, I'm crazy but not stupid!! Maybe I will retry after my CBR1000RR front end swap, but this is not certain...
#3 Very very funny
I've 2 or 3 low speed turns on my daily travel ( home to work ) and I like to make the rear end slide. But again, I must say that it very more difficult to get feedback while doing this than on the Fireblade. I hope my future Wilbers shock will help me to get more feedback, will see soon when I will get it...There's something the VTR is made to do, others not, at least without experience or modifications... I think you had many great feedback above from experienced VTR rider and finding the limits of the VTR will also push you to find yours first...
Don't forget: Rubber side down
Cheers
07-14-2005, 09:07 AM
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I've put about 7500 miles on my bike in the last year and a half, and I've
1) Never drug a peg (guess I'm just not trying hard enough)
2) Never locked the front wheel while braking (Never gotten into a situation where I've deemed that necessary)
3) Oh yes, the first week I had the bike I got on it a little hard coming out of a corner (Read: cocky dumbass), I about pooped my pants when the bike threatened to throw me off.
1) Never drug a peg (guess I'm just not trying hard enough)
2) Never locked the front wheel while braking (Never gotten into a situation where I've deemed that necessary)
3) Oh yes, the first week I had the bike I got on it a little hard coming out of a corner (Read: cocky dumbass), I about pooped my pants when the bike threatened to throw me off.
07-14-2005, 09:21 AM
#16
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The first ride in the spring of the second year I had mine, I grabeed a handful of throttle on cold tires and cold street coming out of a stop sign, turning right. The *** end kicked out and the bike went in to a wicked tankslapper, almost 90 degrees side to side. I thought I was toast for sure, smashed my nuts on the tank 
and somehow ended up going straight down the road again.
and somehow ended up going straight down the road again.
07-14-2005, 10:25 AM
#17
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
1. I've never ground anything but my boots riding the s'hawk (if I'm NOT grinding my boots, I feel like I'm being lazy 
..30yrs ago, riding the '73 Kawi H2 regularly on Marin county's 'Sunday morning ride' I used to grind all sorts of parts.. perennial ride leader (and great wrench) Bill Boyd (father of Wade Boyd) did LOTS of work trying to remove/relocate offending parts .. also did everything possible to try modify my H2 (aka 'the flexi flyer') like adding steering damper, welding a multitude of gussets into the frame, boxing the swingarm, replacing the (teflon?!) swingarm bushing with bronze.. damn thing still wobbled like crazy in the 80mph sweeper around Bolinas lagoon.
I don't think there is any way possible to unexpectedly lowside the s'hawk on the street in dry conditions, good tires, etc (exception: yesterday evening I came closer than ever, probably some effin' gravel in the corner.. rear end slid waaaaay out, thought I was goin' down, but managed to steer back into a general direction of travel that agreed with remaining on the road.. I'm getting to really not like invisble **** on the roads
2. dunno, don't have stock brakes anymore, but it's easily possible to get split-second 'chirp' noise outta the front tire upon over-enthusiastic braking with my current setup.. the stock brakes felt very good as I recall, but I'm able to confidently go deeper & then brake harder now, with incredibly good ability to modulate right up to and after being warned by that occasional tiny chirp.
3. damnably easy if someone is running around sprinkling invisible **** into your corners -but on a presumably clean surface and running Pilot Powers, you've pretty much gotta be trying to bust it loose.. much MUCH more likely is a totally unintended power wheelie.. I'm only just getting to the point where this is 'OK' with me.. it feels a bit weird to suddenly have no steering, and then feel a little slap on the wrists twitchy sorta thing as the front hooks back up after backing the throttle down or just riding it out, depending on how close the next corner is 8)
And hey-- about those tar snakes is it my imagination, or does that **** slime onto my back tire for a few rotations ?! I HATE that stuff.. makes for almost completely unpredictable handling unless I back off to around 75% of normal (normal means if the yellow curve sign has a 20 on it, I'm trying for 50 but will settle for 40 .. occassionally it's possible to treble the curve sign, but indiscriminately insisting on this would likely lead to crashing
..30yrs ago, riding the '73 Kawi H2 regularly on Marin county's 'Sunday morning ride' I used to grind all sorts of parts.. perennial ride leader (and great wrench) Bill Boyd (father of Wade Boyd) did LOTS of work trying to remove/relocate offending parts .. also did everything possible to try modify my H2 (aka 'the flexi flyer') like adding steering damper, welding a multitude of gussets into the frame, boxing the swingarm, replacing the (teflon?!) swingarm bushing with bronze.. damn thing still wobbled like crazy in the 80mph sweeper around Bolinas lagoon.I don't think there is any way possible to unexpectedly lowside the s'hawk on the street in dry conditions, good tires, etc (exception: yesterday evening I came closer than ever, probably some effin' gravel in the corner.. rear end slid waaaaay out, thought I was goin' down, but managed to steer back into a general direction of travel that agreed with remaining on the road.. I'm getting to really not like invisble **** on the roads
2. dunno, don't have stock brakes anymore, but it's easily possible to get split-second 'chirp' noise outta the front tire upon over-enthusiastic braking with my current setup.. the stock brakes felt very good as I recall, but I'm able to confidently go deeper & then brake harder now, with incredibly good ability to modulate right up to and after being warned by that occasional tiny chirp.
3. damnably easy if someone is running around sprinkling invisible **** into your corners
-but on a presumably clean surface and running Pilot Powers, you've pretty much gotta be trying to bust it loose.. much MUCH more likely is a totally unintended power wheelie.. I'm only just getting to the point where this is 'OK' with me.. it feels a bit weird to suddenly have no steering, and then feel a little slap on the wrists twitchy sorta thing as the front hooks back up after backing the throttle down or just riding it out, depending on how close the next corner is 8)And hey-- about those tar snakes
is it my imagination, or does that **** slime onto my back tire for a few rotations ?! I HATE that stuff.. makes for almost completely unpredictable handling unless I back off to around 75% of normal (normal means if the yellow curve sign has a 20 on it, I'm trying for 50 but will settle for 40 .. occassionally it's possible to treble the curve sign, but indiscriminately insisting on this would likely lead to crashing
07-14-2005, 01:46 PM
#19
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There may be others...
Here's a pretty cool way to recover from a highside:
http://www.funny-city.com/videos/amazing_save.shtml
Here's a pretty cool way to recover from a highside:
http://www.funny-city.com/videos/amazing_save.shtml
07-14-2005, 02:40 PM
#20
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
You know, as a casual onlooker that would look like youd didn't know what the hell you were doing, but coming from the rider point of view. . .WOW was he lucky!
07-18-2005, 07:04 PM
#22
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Unscrew those little footpeg "feelers" right now before they hook up in a corner and cause problems. Can we find out who put those things on this bike in the first place make him/her buy me some new underpants ? What were they thinking ?
07-18-2005, 07:14 PM
#23
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
better still... find out who spec'ed them and make them wash MY underpants...
By hand.
Those were one of the first things I replaced... What's with all the rubber, too???
07-18-2005, 07:33 PM
#24
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I'm guessing the rubber is just for vibration. I replaced the stock pegs with some slash cut ones just so I'd stop scraping the paegs & you definately feel more vibration thru the pegs without the rubber there.
07-18-2005, 07:42 PM
#25
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Yeah, I assumed it was for "all the crazy V-Twin vibration" 
The designers should have run a hot lap on a big-bore single just for a little "perspective"
I did notice a little more vibration, but I kinda like it. I feel much more connected to the bike... same reason I use gloves with Kangaroo palms... a little extra feedback goes a long way in my opinion.
The designers should have run a hot lap on a big-bore single just for a little "perspective"
I did notice a little more vibration, but I kinda like it. I feel much more connected to the bike... same reason I use gloves with Kangaroo palms... a little extra feedback goes a long way in my opinion.
07-18-2005, 08:16 PM
#26
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I HATE the rubber topped foot pegs.
More than once a boot has slipped off the peg just after pulling off with water on the bottom of my bootd.
Where did you guys get your replacements?
I sort of like the looks of the round ones (no flat top surface) that are cross-hatched all over.
Brian
More than once a boot has slipped off the peg just after pulling off with water on the bottom of my bootd.
Where did you guys get your replacements?
I sort of like the looks of the round ones (no flat top surface) that are cross-hatched all over.
Brian
07-19-2005, 04:29 AM
#27
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
Pretty good selection here:
http://www.indysuperbike.com/custome....php?cat=20512
mmmmmmmmmmmmm Harris Rearsets..... tasty.
http://www.indysuperbike.com/custome....php?cat=20512
mmmmmmmmmmmmm Harris Rearsets..... tasty.
07-19-2005, 06:37 AM
#28
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I have Oberon footpegs on mine, the studded ones, Austreelfighter Oberon Footpegs
When i unwrapped them I was sceptical that they would grip, but have to say they are fantastic and really give great grip. I have not noticed any added vibration through these, (the rubber ones would obviously be better) and they have no hero blobs and grind a little later than standard pegs. Definately good value without going the expense of full rearsets.
When i unwrapped them I was sceptical that they would grip, but have to say they are fantastic and really give great grip. I have not noticed any added vibration through these, (the rubber ones would obviously be better) and they have no hero blobs and grind a little later than standard pegs. Definately good value without going the expense of full rearsets.
07-19-2005, 06:37 AM
#29
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Thanks for posting, tasty indeed and what a selection.
Looks like the choices are between Gilles and Harris.
Are the Gilles worth the extra $60 over the Harris?
I like the fact that all the Gilles parts are avilable seperately. And it sounds like they use roller bearings instead of bushings.
Which look stronger?
~Jeffers
Looks like the choices are between Gilles and Harris.
Are the Gilles worth the extra $60 over the Harris?
I like the fact that all the Gilles parts are avilable seperately. And it sounds like they use roller bearings instead of bushings.
Which look stronger?
~Jeffers
07-19-2005, 07:01 AM
#30
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Re: Knowing the limits of the Superhawk
I think they both look pretty sweet... haven't seen the Gilles sets in person, though.
I think they both use bearings...
Are Gilles worth an extra $60? Dunno.
I'd love to run into someone who has them first... they look great in the pic and I agree... I love the fact that they sell everything individually.
A great upgrade for the VTR. Clearance is a bit of an issue in stock trim.
Just sucks that they're so pricey... it's one of the things you're almost guaranteed to break in the event of a get-off.
I bought from indysuperbikes a couple months ago... good experience. Prompt shipment, emailed tracking #'s, etc
I think they both use bearings...
Are Gilles worth an extra $60? Dunno.
I'd love to run into someone who has them first... they look great in the pic and I agree... I love the fact that they sell everything individually.
A great upgrade for the VTR. Clearance is a bit of an issue in stock trim.
Just sucks that they're so pricey... it's one of the things you're almost guaranteed to break in the event of a get-off.
I bought from indysuperbikes a couple months ago... good experience. Prompt shipment, emailed tracking #'s, etc
