DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

hey guys, ordered the dynojet for only 66.12 ( http://www.motorcycleproshop.com/det...uct_id=DJ-1185 ) . so instead of messin around with stock jets, and seeing how its HALF the price of other kits for bikes, i got it. its comin in on friday. not familiar with what works the best with our sweet arse bikes.

BUT ,

i wanna know in a few short sentences whose got the sweet setup and what jets you used for the DYNOJET brand jet kit #1185 to get to your ample torque and smooth throttle when the carb goes from one jet to the next while accelerating. EX: 185/190 mains and 2 turns out on a/f screws or....whatever)
i got a 98 , with very open MIG high mount pipes, no special air filter or nothin. just pipes with the tps mod , and pair flaps were flipped. thats it. am gonna put it in on thursday i hope. thanks guys :D

pic below is to inspire thought :lol:

This will be an interesting thread, but jetting won't be the same on every bike.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

interesting indeed .well, you should only have at the most 10 variations, seeing how you either have a:

1. free flowing aftermarket pipe OR semi restricted

2. stock or aftermarket air filter

3. can only be a VTR

4. can only be a dynojet STAGE ONE


so it shouldnt be too bad. other than small mods like no tps or tps adjustment and pair removal or no pair removal. maybe ill be completely wrong, but i just want an average so i can start from there :twisted: . cutting corners yes :?: lol

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

I agree with you Cleveland.

IMO we should have this base line set up in the knowledge base. I'm about to do the TPS and Dynojet mod sometime this month and it would be nice if it was all in one thread.

Wasn't it 2 and a half turns out??

You can get close but jetting is really bike specific, not model specfic.

Here's your starting point:
pilot jets stock
pilot needles 2.5 turns out
needles on the middle clip position
Mains, one size over, no more

Most likely, you'll have the 3,000-3,500 stumble. If you do, richen the needles one setting.

This, BTW, is the same advice I'd give for any rejetted bike of any kind. A big mistake people make with jetting is to go big as a shortcut.

Anyway, lets see what others have found.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

good stuff... though, i am looking for more specific results that work for EACH superhawk. like :

"i have a vtr1000f 2004 with micron exhaust cans, stock headers, and stock air filter. i use 180 for front and 185 for rear carb and 2 turns out on air screws. "

otherwise, its all greek. :roll:

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

hmm, no one has dynojet kits here? ? ? what about the acclaimed flat spot at 5k ? just kiddin :? looked at tracking number... its comin tomorrow. just wanted some more input....

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

'98 w/ DJ stage I, BMC filter and Jardine High Mounts. 185/190 and needles raised all the way works perfectly w/ not screw adjustments.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

I just had the carbs off my 02 apart to clean. I have no mods at all. One of the most respected techs in my area who is a superhawk enthusiast told me to go to 48's for the slow jets (stock is 45). He gave me a tool from a Dynojet kit to turn the pilot screws (Let me know how the one that comes with your kit works, as it will be a few weeks before I get to mine). He told me to start with the pilot screws between 2 1/4 and 2 1/2, then follow this procedure:

1. Adjust idle to spec (with idle adjustment screw).
2. Turn front carb pilot screw either way until highest idle is obtained.
3. Adjust idle to spec (with idle adustment screw).
4. Turn rear carb pilot screw either way until highest idle is obtained.
5. Adjust idle to spec (with idle adjustment screw)
6. Drink Beer, you are done.

There is also a complicated "Idle drop" method of adjusting the pilot screws in the OEM manual. I can send you a copy, but you need an external tach capable of discerning differences of 50 rpm. The tech I talked to said this wasn't necessary.

Good luck - and like I said, let me know how that tool works, or if you come up with any slick way to make it work.

That's basically an idle drop procedure. Generally, though, you richen the mixture slightly after finding the highest revs.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

you know what.... put the dyno in... still same problem, i tried the first clip from the flat top of the non pointey end, all the way to the 4th one. every time, same crap... good idle... crack to half throttle, and a bubbling like out of gas around 2.5k , wait 1 second, and then it rips up in the rpm's. if i slowly go up so it hits 2.5-4k and hold my throttle hand steady when in neutral , it bummbles up and down, then lowers in rpms like its gonna stall. i think i need a slow jet change as you say. i have stock 45's.... if i change to 48's, im assuming itll make a difference(less or more fuel at 1/4 throttle when going to higher number for slow jet?). i hope, the throttle past 5k is awesome, no popping or nothing, just quick transition while cold or warm from idle to rippin it open will gurgle then rip up. aint that the slow jet? i change fuel mix screws from 1.5 to 3 , 1.75 being a better idle. have in there now 180 185 1.75 out and 4th from flat end of needles and still the same. its 4:30 AM , and i tried everything with the fule mix screws... it aint that, so im PRESUMING that the slow jet is the one the throttle uses to transition from idle to main jet??? all i know is its doin the same thing as before i put in the jet with MIG high mounts and stock air filter. gotta be that damn slo jet! i am tired. hope i am making sense. get back to me please!!! :evil:

p.s. the air screw tool looks just like a .223 rifle casing with a D end to adjust. i simply dremeled the end of the screw on the carbs and can reach it with this hose i makeshifted. FYI, the tool is comletely round, so you have to make "half marks' to know how many turns you went out/in

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

Not to thread hijack or anything, but i got a quick question. I have an '02 hawk with Yosh pipes. I bought the bike with the pipes on it. I here a lot of people complain about a stumble in the middle to low rpms and trying to jet the bike to fix the problem. I have never had this problem but i do not know if the bike has been jetted. Is there anyway to visually tell if it is jetted?

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

hello mr. threadjacker :twisted: . yes, all you do is pull of the carbs and look under the black end caps and pull the needles... if they have an adjustment clip, its aftermarket. to confirm you must pull the main jets to see if they dont have the honda stamp serial model crap on em too.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

Dude, you are going the wrong way just as I did. According the dyno-jet's instructions, 4th is the normal start point for a typical setup. Drop it "down" to the 5th slot (counting down from the flat end) and all will probably be well. They call this going "up" on the needle which what confused me.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

bling. i doubt itll help, seeing how i talked to dynojet dude named kirk today, and he said i have the washers in the wrong place. you use the stock washer closer to the tip than the dyno washer, WHICH is behind the e-clip(or simply closer to the flat end) . in other word your supposed to sandwhich the eclip with the two washers, the stock being closest to the pointy tip. well. I HAD THEM BOTH in front of the eclip, THUS bringing me theoretically to the #5 clip when i was really on 4. 8) i hope im not on crack and you see what im sayin. i had the needle pulled out of the carb hole with 2 washers stacked just as much as with one washer and one clip closer to point... well, sorta. i think its that damn slow jet... i wish i could get one online , but i wanna play right now :shock: im itchin, weather is gettin good. he said FORGET the idle mix screws. set it, and thats it.... he said screw the slow jet.... and just mess around with the needle. that was his advise :roll:

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

The burble/stumble usually indicates a rich condition also called loading. To fix this, you'd raise the clip higher on the needle (lowering the needle.)

Pilot jets are idle jets. The needle itself controls midrange fueling. If the pilot jets are too big, it can contribute to the problem but it doesn't sound like the cause.

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

well, i think i tried that (again, up till 4:30 doin this) , you know, the closest ring to the flat end to dip the needles in, and it still stunk... but ill do it again. if its still rich, ill have to get 2 new slow jets from 45# to 42# i guess. i mean, if i go to in on the mix scrws (ie: 1 - 1.5) what automatic telltale signs will i see for a lean condition? i definitly dont have the tach to do that crap so.... i mean if its lean, and im at 1.5 turns and the needles are in as far as they go... what can i do :cry: hahah. i love this stuff. no really.... learn a lot. thanks guys

I can't remember but isn't stock a 38? If so a 45 is way too big. I'd only go up one size on the pilots. I'll bet your mixture screws don't do much do they?

But I still think you have some problem with the needle circuit. It is unlikely that the proper needles would need to be full in and still not run lean.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

yup, you got it, they dont do squat. i mean, if i go to 3 out, itll run horribly. oh yeah... just so you know... when i test rode it-as i stated in another reply- it was runnin like poop. couldnt hold idle. so i opened the throttle, killed the kill switch, and pressed the starter to UNFOUL the plugs. then fired it up and boom, it worked great until about 5 seconds. so yeah, im runnin rich, but the rest of the circuit(ie: main jet) is fine. just from 2-3k and tryin to hold it there. it bumbles and then lowers to like 1.5, until i yank it to hit the main jet.

Well, that part will be easy to fix. Fix that, put the needles in the middle and then see what happens to the midrange.

Just checked and I have to take it back. The stock pilot jet is a 45. So something else is wrong. Could the last guy have drilled it?

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

What did that guy kirk tell you to set the pilot screws at? Like I mentioned previously, a really well respected tech in my area, who has owned several superhawks told me to go up to a 48 slow jet - and that was on my bike which is completely stock. I can only image yours would need more gas since it's breathing more freely. I got my 48's at the Honda dealer - they had them in stock for about $4.00 each. You shouldn't feel bad that it's giving you such problems - jetting is really an art form. I have ridden precious few that were done perfect, and lots and lots of horrid ones. Don't give up of compromise - when you get it dialed in it will be worth it.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

Also, I think it would be really unlikely that a stock 45 slow jet is making your bike too rich. I agree that Burbling can be a sympton of a rich mixture, but for crying out loud, they send them from factory barely sipping gas so they can pass emissions. I just can't imagine stock slow jets with your pipes would equal too rich.

Agreed. Something is very wrong.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

got it guys :D :D :D , after talking to a repair guy in a dealership..... he was like "oh man, you got MIG high mounts?!?!?! those are old racing pipes, you know how open those things are?" ok, so i got the jist. these MIG pipes are like d&d race pipes were for my cbr... loud and OPEN ! meaning, i GOTTA be lean. so i put that e clip on the 6th slot, the one closest to the sharp point... and boom :twisted: , no more flat spotting. it needed gas... SIGH.... well thanks for everyones help ! ! ! this forum is priceless. its just so weird that theyre such open pipes they need it on the 6th ring with the stock washer for the shim. . . bet no one else on here is on 6th ring! :twisted: . my air screws are 2 turns out btw.

well anyhoo, got another question...

i am thinking of adding a washer or 2 to shim the needles more.. but am going to test ride it more to see by seat of the pants if it needs it. what signs do i look for when i know i put too many or have too less washers shimming the needle? i mean right now, while on its kickstand, i was reving it to 6k rpm and it backfired with a crisp "POP" from the exhaust... havent heard that one yet. but i think it may be a hair lean still.. i dunno. it was lean as hell before fixin it and i heard no coughin from the airbox which your supposed to hear when its lean. anyways... im gonna ride here tomorrow, so keep me posted as to what signs i should look for to give it more juice than air(add a washer) , or not to. thanks a million :lol:

I can't see how your solution addresses your described problems but nothing argues with success. Don't be too quick to move beyond the jet kit parameters.

You're running an unusually rich midrange configuration with a very lean idle circuit adjustment. And before you described a rich idle circuit as your symptom. Any particular variation in the free-flow of the mig system is going to be offset by the high mount anyway.

Anyway, I'm glad you got it fixed.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

I told you to go up (numerically) but you didn't listen! LMAO. Cool, you got it dialed in.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

ok ok, bling, so im a moron. :D anyways, i will richin my mix screws more seeing how i know NOW that theyre not the problem... anyways,,, ill keep ya posted as to what happens. im still tryin to rig something to the front mix screw to mess with the idle without payin 100$ for that gay tool . ciao :P

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

jschmidt, you know what i was thinkin?? if im at 180 jet in front and 185 jet in rear.... dont you think i should fling em up to 185 190 seeing how i am on the 6th ring now for the neeedles-meaning i have a boat load of air from the pipes and need a fair amount of gas to compensate for them- im thinkin my top end will be fluttery once i get it out tomorrow from lack of gas. i mean, wouldnt it be almost a no brainer to switch the mains out to one step higher now seeing how high i am on the needles for mid-throttle? am i ranting? :wink:

It would make sense that you could benefit from larger mains but bikes don't come so lean on the top end like they do on the bottom end.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

I am. I think I said that...raised all the way. Jardine high mounts and a BMC air filter.

Probably not unless you're using an aftermarket filter. You've had enough practice by now to test it as is and rip it apart one last time for a jet swap if it's a little lean on top.

Actually, if it feels good on the road, go get a dyno run w/ an EGA. I did that after my last tweak with the coupon that the K&N kit came with and they threw on the EGA for free. I told the guy what I'd gone through so far and he said not to touch it again, the A/F ratio was between 12.5:1 and 13.5:1 all the way up and it was the flattest torque curve he had ever seen. I got 103 at the peak but could've seen more if the clutch wasn't slipping (or maybe more duration on the cams...he couldn't say for sure) but I'm VERY happy. He topped it off with, "I've always liked these better than the RC51." That coming from a guy who still races (GSX-Rs) well into his 50s.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

clevland, you must really love this bike, i would have burned it long time ago! i give you much credit for sticking it out! you will get it just persevere and the problems will be solved.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

lol, yes i do :o .. well, every day it gets dialed in more. hell, i love this carb science so much, i may drop law school and go to MMI for schooling ! ! ! hahah. (wonder how much they make workin on bikes?)

what is your bike temperature at on the analog gauge when warm after 10 minutes of stop and go 35mph???? analog only, mine was right before half way and maybe a nibble after. think mines high, which is a sign of running lean/rich?


anyways, rode it 10 miles today in city somewhat busy traffic.
heres the results from going from clip 5 (yesterday) to clip 4 from the flat end:

1. bike will take about 5 minutes to warm, then idle correctly, if i hold it at 2.5k on the kickstand, itll slowly put down until itll stall.

2. when it finally warms up, i can wheelie and rip up and down the street, BUT THE BIGGEST THING THAT PLAGUES ME STILL is that after 5 minutes of riding yeasterday on clip 5 and 15 minutes today on clip 4 THE IDLE will drop to like 900 rpm and then the bike COMPLETELY loses its "crispness" or when i flick the throttle, it wont rip up to higher rpm.... very weird. i guess ill try clip 3 tomorrow... cant be any lower than that , right? then after 5 minutes of that, it went back to normal... though, when it idles low at 900 rpm without me changin it, its like a 300cc vtwin.. no crap real weird. i think its loading up, leends to be lean.

3. my idle MIX SCREWS ARE AT 2 1/4. i heard that to stop backfiring you can mess with these. only other thing is that when the bike IS running correctly and the torque and crisp throttle is there, i get a backfire right after i rev it up at idle to 4k itll pop.. i mean as the throttle goes down from the very top, POP! :shock: . well, funny thing is, when the idle drops mid-ride, and theres ABSOLUTELY no power.... the popping stops. messed up eh... im callin dynojet man tomorrow :D

just lookin for ideas... no biggie. i can be a nuisance but i just wouldnt mind cutting a corner if you guys know...

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

cleavland, as far as your question of the temp gauge goes, mine sits just past halfway in stop and go traffic at about 70 F air temp (bought my bike last week of sept, hasnt been warmer than that yet!), but dont worry about high temps as long as your fan works ok. also, my bike is HEAVILY modified, with very expensive true dual equal headers with an h-pipe or as ducatti calls it "spaghetti" exhaust. my bike will not run on its own in temp below 50 for at least 2 mins. even if i leave the "choke" knob on. the pop sound on decel after hard accel sounds normal, you have to remember that fuel is still going into cyliders at a very rapid pace when you let off the throttle, not all that fuel is being burnt when you let off the throttle and the "backfire" you are hearing is probably the fuel burning in your headers. since you have race pipes, it is going to be more noticable than with regular or even aftermarket pipes. listen to a stock car go around in a circle and let off the gas, sounds like hell! as far as cutting corners when dialing in carbs, no such thing! take your time, i have spent days on a dyno stroking every last bit of power out of a demon street carb for a pontiac 400 and still didnt get it perfect for another couple of days. carbs are very complex, i dont care what anybody says. take your time, take many breaks, and keep the faith!

Whew. sorry to hear about the thrashing you're going through.

First off. the bike will run fine with slip-ons and the stock #45 pilot jets. I changed mine to #48 to get rid of decel popping, but it ran fine otherwise.

Is it idling ok? Are the carbs synchronized? Start with those two things. To set the idle mixture on the bike requires a special tool. I borrowed one to do the adjustment. If you've made a tool that works, fine. 1/8 turn out from fastest idle was how I did it. It is a very subtle adjustment. 2- 1/2 turns out is only a rough starting point. Idle is independent of the needle and main jet.

As the velocity through the throttle body increases the needle pulls out of the emulsion tube, and gradually passes control to the main jet due to its taper.

A flat spot around 3.5k occurs if the needles are too far in (too low), causing the mixture to lean out. The 4th notch works well for me (if i recall correctly).

On the main jets I would start small (175F, 180R) and look for consistent pull to redline in 4th gear. If it starts to stumble at high RPM (7-9k), you are probably too lean and can go up one size on the mains. It will run ok in an overly rich condition, so you're better off finding out where too lean is. You may have to fine tune the needles after you change the main jets.

A dyno can be the final word, but you should be able to get close without it. Just take one step at a time and start from the beginning, changing one thing at a time.

My carbs have been off many times!!

Good Luck!

Oops, I said vacuum actuated the slides. It's actually the air velocity through the throttle body that creates a drop in static pressure.

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

ideas ideas... ok guys, ill be rockin today and this weekend.... thanks a lot.... i hope that nasty stumble at 3k goes bye bye....


this is it though... did some thorough test yesterday. went to clip one, yes, it ran like crap.
HOWEVER, when im at a stop sign, the rpm you have to go to to get from stop to go smoothly is where it stumbles... IN FACT GUYS, i can hold it there at like 3k, and its almost like im flooding it . like lets say i held it for 2 seconds. the rpm's slow sput sput down , and it STALLS. thats it. so when im tryin to go 30mph in a 25mph zone, its near impossible cus it pop pops and jerks like mad.

i just wanna make sure its not the slow jet thats all cus the only real problem resides at like 1/16 of a a throttle.. the dynojet guy said to remove the 180/185 and go to 175-180 cus the main jet still may be loading all that fuel into the cylinders... so ill do that today. then put needles at 4. but when i did that... it ran great but still loaded up and turned to a 500cc moto scooter after 10 min of drivin :evil: . we shall see. i see it as a learning experience... my friends think im nuts. :shock:

thanks again guys :wink:

You have all the information you need. Just settle down, get your needles right and you'll be fine. Main jets are not the cause. Change ONE thing at a time.

You did drill the slide body and put the Dynojet springs in, right???

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

hey, patience is my middle name. i love this stuff. yes, ofcourse i did :) . well, tslked to the dyno men... im gonna try in 45 minutes simply openin the air mix screws to 3/14 , which is 1/2 turn more than ive done. theyre thinkin its either the mix screws since its so LOW on the throttle, or slow jet/idle jet needs to be bigger to compensate for my open pipes. we shall see. :P

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

got it guys... runs like a top. guess i was hooking to the wrong vaccuum niple on the petcock? i was hooking to the big one pointing down and not the smaller diameter one pointing to the side... well ,i tested other things, and the only things i changed was the float bowl overflow tubes i pulled out of the middle of the carbs and pointed them down and raised the needles to the 5th instead of the 4th setting. thats it.. couldnt have fixed it... and i tested both vaccuum nipples and both made fuel shoot out of the fuel nipple ends. i guess the smaller one is constant. i dunno. weird. but it runs like a frikkin top now. thanks for all the help! and if you need some tips, talk to KYLE from dynojet, he has a rc51 and knows our VTR's . tell em jeremy sent ya, and he'll roll his eyes (well, im sure he would be you cant tell over the phone :wink: )

Re: DYNOJET POLL ! TORQUE POCKETS FOUND
 

Second time I've heard this in a week. The "nipple" on the bottom of the fuel diaphram is not a nipple. The vacuum hose goes on the back, not the bottom.