Buell Goes Bust
10-15-2009, 10:06 AM
#1
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Buell Goes Bust
Y'all probably have seen this, but I thought I'd pass it along. Sad.
http://www.buell.com/en_us/
Randy
http://www.buell.com/en_us/
Randy
10-15-2009, 10:59 AM
#2
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I saw this on another thread this morning, so I'll sum up what I said there. harley knows the money is in parts. not bikes that don't need maintenance on a regular basis. bye bye buell. harley knows who their customers are. so they toss the only decent bikes that they made, and keep the crap. cause the rider needs to suit the bike, and harley's got more crap riders than any other bike company in the world. the RUBS won a big battle today. and I say goodbye to the last respectable (not great, but respectable) american sportbike company. harley ranks right up there with those "bike" they sell in pepboys now. I hope harley dies a fast permanent death. hope the economy grinds it right down to nothing. it won't happen but it should.
10-15-2009, 11:10 AM
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I hadn't thought about the money HD makes in parts. That's a very interesting point. Are there other companies that have operated like this? Is it viable?
I saw a demographics report years and years ago that predicted Harley would go bust if they didn't start pitching to other age groups. For many years its only target market has been male Baby Boomers and they're (somewhat) aging out of the market. Younger riders don't seem particularly interested in the brand, and middle-aged Xers seems to be leaving the sport in general.
Sort of ironic that HD has done to Buell what Buell himself did to the Blast recently -- i.e, crushed it because it didn't fit the market nitche the company wanted to fill...
Randy
I saw a demographics report years and years ago that predicted Harley would go bust if they didn't start pitching to other age groups. For many years its only target market has been male Baby Boomers and they're (somewhat) aging out of the market. Younger riders don't seem particularly interested in the brand, and middle-aged Xers seems to be leaving the sport in general.
Sort of ironic that HD has done to Buell what Buell himself did to the Blast recently -- i.e, crushed it because it didn't fit the market nitche the company wanted to fill...
Randy
10-15-2009, 11:35 AM
#4
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This sucks. I felt bad for him watching the video. While the bikes have been a little "different" I thought quite a few of them were pretty cool, and I've always admired him for just trying to do things different. I'm sure Harley will use exactly NONE of the experience or new technology gained from the Buell brand and it's innovations. And all the people bitching about Buell racing can finally shut up too... Too bad so many folks idea of a good time is to leave their helmet home, remove the front brakes, and play dress up on the weekend...
10-15-2009, 11:35 AM
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10-15-2009, 12:59 PM
#6
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Feel sorry for Buell? Anytime you put your *** on the line and your life into something like he did with the development of his motorcycle, it's disheartening to see it go down, and especially when he was doing the right thing. Using that piece of **** engine to start with was the first mistake, but he probably didn't have much choice on that. Secondly, he should have hired an Italian to assist in helping form catch up with function a bit.
HD can buy MV Augusta yet couldn't support Buell a bit longer? Yea right. Too bad we didn't let HD go down the drain when they should have instead of using import taxes to bail out a failed company. The free enterprise system can work in most cases if they'd just let it.
Relative to Eric Buell personally, he can be proud of what he has accomplished and his influences have and will positively affect motorcycle for years to come. His efforts toward mass centralization, lighter motorcycles, etc., are values most of us on this forum can and do appreciate. Most of us could only dream of what he has accomplished, so my hat's off to Mr. Buell
, and **** on HD for subtracting the one of the only really good parts of their organization
.
Last edited by nath981; 10-15-2009 at 01:05 PM.
10-15-2009, 01:11 PM
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Shame for sure.
Harley is also getting rid of MV Agusta (selling it). The mistake they're making is that they're in the same disadvantaged position the US auto makers were/are in where all the premier products are wrong for the sales climate. Don't expect HD to come out with scooters but really, that's what they need, some product flexibility to produce products for a different market climate. Instead they're going to slough off that flexibility to concentrate in overpriced, archaic motorcycles? Jeez! That would have been like GM announcing that they're dropping small cars and sedans to concentrate on the Hummer brand! I can't understand why they thought this was a good move...
Harley is also getting rid of MV Agusta (selling it). The mistake they're making is that they're in the same disadvantaged position the US auto makers were/are in where all the premier products are wrong for the sales climate. Don't expect HD to come out with scooters but really, that's what they need, some product flexibility to produce products for a different market climate. Instead they're going to slough off that flexibility to concentrate in overpriced, archaic motorcycles? Jeez! That would have been like GM announcing that they're dropping small cars and sedans to concentrate on the Hummer brand! I can't understand why they thought this was a good move...
10-15-2009, 01:53 PM
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10-15-2009, 01:54 PM
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Sad to see Eric Buell's message. Most HD dealers didn't even sell or service his machines. I would like to have an Electraglide STD but I won't Pay 20K for it.
The Harley Davidson Motor Company - the business partner you need only if you don't NEED a partner.
The Harley Davidson Motor Company - the business partner you need only if you don't NEED a partner.
10-15-2009, 03:28 PM
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A moment of silence for an innovative little guy... One more reason I don't care for HD. You have to hate to see someone take on the world and hold on as long as he did, just to get trampled and cast off by the Mother Company like a red headed stepchild. So sad.
10-15-2009, 05:37 PM
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Aye, it's a sad day. I don't think Buell gave away controlling interest in the company until '98. If you think about the advances it made since then, you can see what drove the man. Maybe he and that Kenny Dreer guy should get together under Polaris and get something going. Don't we need an alternative to HD in the states?
Consider the alternative: Buell contractually obligated to work in R&D at HD. Can you imagine a worst alternative for a visionary like Buell? What is he going to design for a Harley? Double disk front brakes? Oh wait! I think the Japanese might have gotten to that one first!
Randy
Consider the alternative: Buell contractually obligated to work in R&D at HD. Can you imagine a worst alternative for a visionary like Buell? What is he going to design for a Harley? Double disk front brakes? Oh wait! I think the Japanese might have gotten to that one first!
Randy
10-15-2009, 06:07 PM
#12
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I am saddened to see that Buell has closed its doors. I wish HD would have put more of there $ into Buell.
The 1125R was groundbreaking for them, rotax motor - There first real sporting motor!
I am sure that H-D will use none of the R&D or innovation that Buell created or came up with. I am sure that H-D will continue to produce the same underpowered and overweight motorcycles that it has for the last 20 years.
The 1125R was groundbreaking for them, rotax motor - There first real sporting motor!
I am sure that H-D will use none of the R&D or innovation that Buell created or came up with. I am sure that H-D will continue to produce the same underpowered and overweight motorcycles that it has for the last 20 years.
10-15-2009, 11:38 PM
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Bike manufacturers get bought and sold all the time. So why not Buell?
Anybody hear any rumours or know why HD isn't trying to sell it rather than close it down? Unless they are going to re-launch the brand again at some stage?
Anybody???
Anybody hear any rumours or know why HD isn't trying to sell it rather than close it down? Unless they are going to re-launch the brand again at some stage?
Anybody???
10-16-2009, 01:50 AM
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They have been doomed from the start. The bikes are pretty much crap and everybody knows it, nobody wants an AIR COOLED sport bike, get real. Plus fuel in the frame and those stupid brakes that I'm sure cost a billion dollars if you had to get a new rotor. If these are such good ideas then why wasn't anyone try to steal or copy them.
There are very few aftermarket parts for these bikes and the ones they do have are overpriced. The biggest problem was that they sold them in HD dealerships, places where sportbike riders don't really go. They never sold well enough to justify having their own locations though.
I think they were going to get better with the 1125 series bikes, but everything before that was garbage that no one wanted. That's why they didn't sell any bikes.
There are very few aftermarket parts for these bikes and the ones they do have are overpriced. The biggest problem was that they sold them in HD dealerships, places where sportbike riders don't really go. They never sold well enough to justify having their own locations though.
I think they were going to get better with the 1125 series bikes, but everything before that was garbage that no one wanted. That's why they didn't sell any bikes.
10-16-2009, 05:20 AM
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They have been doomed from the start. The bikes are pretty much crap and everybody knows it, nobody wants an AIR COOLED sport bike, get real. Plus fuel in the frame and those stupid brakes that I'm sure cost a billion dollars if you had to get a new rotor. If these are such good ideas then why wasn't anyone try to steal or copy them.
There are very few aftermarket parts for these bikes and the ones they do have are overpriced. The biggest problem was that they sold them in HD dealerships, places where sportbike riders don't really go. They never sold well enough to justify having their own locations though.
I think they were going to get better with the 1125 series bikes, but everything before that was garbage that no one wanted. That's why they didn't sell any bikes.
There are very few aftermarket parts for these bikes and the ones they do have are overpriced. The biggest problem was that they sold them in HD dealerships, places where sportbike riders don't really go. They never sold well enough to justify having their own locations though.
I think they were going to get better with the 1125 series bikes, but everything before that was garbage that no one wanted. That's why they didn't sell any bikes.
Last edited by captainchaos; 10-16-2009 at 05:27 AM.
10-16-2009, 05:24 AM
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I read the full release and HD said that it needed to kill Buell instead of sell it because it's too well integrated into the company. They're also ditching their share of MV, but they're going to sell that off.
'got to disagree about the bikes being crap, Drew. I just traded away that M2 and I'll miss it for quite a while -- and it's pretty much the worse Buell made. Same folks go for those bikes that go for the Ducati Monster. Yes, it broke, but the ac engine was more versatile than you'd expect and the bike REALLY handled.
The aftermarket is huge for these bikes -- there's enough support to keep the bike alive for many years, even without a home company.
I remember reading an interview with Buell from the mid-1990s where he said distribution WOULD be a challenge. Ideally the bikes should be sold alongside Ducatis and Triumphs, not HD cruisers. HD dealers (by and large) also didn't like Buells and gave folks a hard time whenever they could.
Randy
'got to disagree about the bikes being crap, Drew. I just traded away that M2 and I'll miss it for quite a while -- and it's pretty much the worse Buell made. Same folks go for those bikes that go for the Ducati Monster. Yes, it broke, but the ac engine was more versatile than you'd expect and the bike REALLY handled.
The aftermarket is huge for these bikes -- there's enough support to keep the bike alive for many years, even without a home company.
I remember reading an interview with Buell from the mid-1990s where he said distribution WOULD be a challenge. Ideally the bikes should be sold alongside Ducatis and Triumphs, not HD cruisers. HD dealers (by and large) also didn't like Buells and gave folks a hard time whenever they could.
Randy
10-16-2009, 05:34 AM
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And on a side note for what it's worth I think ALL bikes, and cars for that matter are mechanical pieces of ****. They ALL have their problems. My buddies BRAND NEW Ducati 916 was sitting in a huge puddle of oil in his garage with a few hundred miles on it, just the same as another friends brand new 1200 sportster was. Hanging around the dealership his friend owned never painted Ducati as the model of reliability either. And yes my BRAND NEW superhawk overheated with 60 miles on it after the t-stat was bad. My brother's almighty ACURA TL-S had the tranny changed 3 times in 100k miles. I expect problems here and there with everything, and I believe that proper care & maintenance (which most average folks DONT do) will have most any vehicle running virtually forever.
10-16-2009, 07:55 AM
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what's strange to me, because i really don't know the inside info here, is that Eric Buell is staying with HD, a company that's clearly opposed to his core philosophy of creating real sportbikes-lightweight, fast, cutting edge, and radical. I would think that he would sooner go on his own or look for work where he would fit in philosophically.
I would imagine that HD made him an offer he couldn't refuse which suggests me that maybe he's not as intense and dedicated to his philosophy as I would have credited him with initially. With high pay, retirement, benefits, etc., via 28yrs. at HD, you would think he would have enough personal and professional resources to help him get into something he believed in rather than work for a company diametrically opposed to what he was trying to accomplish.
I would imagine that HD made him an offer he couldn't refuse which suggests me that maybe he's not as intense and dedicated to his philosophy as I would have credited him with initially. With high pay, retirement, benefits, etc., via 28yrs. at HD, you would think he would have enough personal and professional resources to help him get into something he believed in rather than work for a company diametrically opposed to what he was trying to accomplish.
10-16-2009, 08:21 AM
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And on a side note for what it's worth I think ALL bikes, and cars for that matter are mechanical pieces of ****. They ALL have their problems. My buddies BRAND NEW Ducati 916 was sitting in a huge puddle of oil in his garage with a few hundred miles on it, just the same as another friends brand new 1200 sportster was. Hanging around the dealership his friend owned never painted Ducati as the model of reliability either. And yes my BRAND NEW superhawk overheated with 60 miles on it after the t-stat was bad. My brother's almighty ACURA TL-S had the tranny changed 3 times in 100k miles. I expect problems here and there with everything, and I believe that proper care & maintenance (which most average folks DONT do) will have most any vehicle running virtually forever.
10-16-2009, 09:08 AM
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And I might be getting off topic here as well but I think the greed and poor management also bleed over to people's opinions of the products-GM, Harley, etc...Folks on here seem to hate Harleys and think they're shitty bikes. I'm sorry but you may not like them or like the riding styles or the "lifestyle" and I can understand that. But all you have to do is sit on a Shadow and then sit on a Harley and you can EASILY see where the few extra dollars go. And I'm no Harley fanboy, and I've been wishing they'd build a damn sportbike forever. Of course they're not going to be popular of this forum, just the same as I'm sure a Superhawk is a piece of **** on a Harley forum, and probably plenty of sportbike forums too. I personally like everything on two wheels, and everything has it's place. The youtube comment mentality of this sucks and that sucks is kinda assinine. I've had just as big a grin on my face riding a Deuce to the keys as I did WFO on a ZX12, or grinding the footpeg feelers railing turns on my Superhawk.
Last edited by captainchaos; 10-16-2009 at 09:11 AM.
10-16-2009, 09:17 AM
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And I also think it's ridiculous to say Harley built a business on making poor quality bikes and selling replacement parts. Are you serious? They built a business on selling upgrade/aftermarket parts and accessories, a pretty damn neat concept every other manufacturer, car and bike, has now tried to copy just like they've been trying to copy the styling of the bikes themselves for years. Been into a Scion dealer lately? Have you seen how many separate accessories you can purchase to "customize your ride" and "make it your own"? Wonder where they got that idea from? Kawasaki's "fire and steel" sounds an awful lot like "screamin' eagle." I could go on and on.
Last edited by captainchaos; 10-16-2009 at 09:43 AM.
10-16-2009, 10:04 AM
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what's strange to me, because i really don't know the inside info here, is that Eric Buell is staying with HD, a company that's clearly opposed to his core philosophy of creating real sportbikes-lightweight, fast, cutting edge, and radical. I would think that he would sooner go on his own or look for work where he would fit in philosophically.
I would imagine that HD made him an offer he couldn't refuse which suggests me that maybe he's not as intense and dedicated to his philosophy as I would have credited him with initially. With high pay, retirement, benefits, etc., via 28yrs. at HD, you would think he would have enough personal and professional resources to help him get into something he believed in rather than work for a company diametrically opposed to what he was trying to accomplish.
I would imagine that HD made him an offer he couldn't refuse which suggests me that maybe he's not as intense and dedicated to his philosophy as I would have credited him with initially. With high pay, retirement, benefits, etc., via 28yrs. at HD, you would think he would have enough personal and professional resources to help him get into something he believed in rather than work for a company diametrically opposed to what he was trying to accomplish.
10-16-2009, 10:07 AM
#24
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Anyway the bottom line is that it sucks that Eric Buell got the axe. I guess it boils down to the fact that if Harley spent all the time to develop their own version of a monster or a 1098 that it simply wouldn't be worth it for them. It would cost too much to develop and sell too poorly, no matter how well it performed. It's like a politician trying to be all things to all people. Everyone WANTS harley to build sportbikes but who would actually BUY them? They were better off selling them under the Buell name to distance themselves a little from the leather chap wearing crowd. But every company has to evolve too. Look at what BMW has done to their motorcycle image lately. WOW. Look how Cadillac has changed from selling land yachts to the fastest sedan in the world. Look how Audi went from being known for it's sticking gas pedals to building such amazing machines and racecars. Does Harley even NEED to change it's image? Will it one day? Who knows. It has to be one of the if not the most recognizable brand name on the planet. It always boils down to money, and if Buell was making them money this wouldn't be happening.
Last edited by captainchaos; 10-16-2009 at 10:11 AM.
10-16-2009, 10:43 AM
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Harley has been in trouble for most of its existence. The success of the past couple of decades has more to do with loose credit and faddishness than any brilliance on Harley's part.
Harley is in trouble again and Buell had to go.
Just an aside, but Audi has a long history of racing and performance. Audi's didn't have sticking gas pedals. The unintended acceleration phenomenon was because people were stomping the gas when they thought they were stomping the brake.
Harley is in trouble again and Buell had to go.
Just an aside, but Audi has a long history of racing and performance. Audi's didn't have sticking gas pedals. The unintended acceleration phenomenon was because people were stomping the gas when they thought they were stomping the brake.
10-16-2009, 12:25 PM
#26
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I remember seeing Buells for the first time at the International Motorcycle show. I always thought they were neat but I would never have bought one. I think a lot of people felt the same way, hence Buell getting the axe.
I think there are a lot of reasons why the brand never caught on. Some mentioned here. I can only say that I feel sorry for Eric Buell, never really being able to get his dream where he wanted it.
I have an interesting Eric Buell story. I was at the Formula USA race at Pocono, PA in (if I remember correctly) 1997. Could have been 1996 but either way it was around that time. During the lunch break there was a Gary Rothwell stunt show. Just before the show Eric Buell and some other riders were going to do a demonstration lap to show off the new Buells. So coming out of the pits Eric Buell attempts to pull a wheelie and flips this brand new Buell over backwards! The stands are full of people waiting to see Gary Rothwell, who was absolutely amazing, and poor Eric Buell does this super bone head move. It was so LOUD! The sound of that bike crunching was unbelievable. I was so embarrassed for him. I guess he must have been embarrassed too, but he played it up to the stands full of people by pumping his fist and shrugging his shoulders as if to say "oh well". It is something I will never forget.
I think there are a lot of reasons why the brand never caught on. Some mentioned here. I can only say that I feel sorry for Eric Buell, never really being able to get his dream where he wanted it.
I have an interesting Eric Buell story. I was at the Formula USA race at Pocono, PA in (if I remember correctly) 1997. Could have been 1996 but either way it was around that time. During the lunch break there was a Gary Rothwell stunt show. Just before the show Eric Buell and some other riders were going to do a demonstration lap to show off the new Buells. So coming out of the pits Eric Buell attempts to pull a wheelie and flips this brand new Buell over backwards! The stands are full of people waiting to see Gary Rothwell, who was absolutely amazing, and poor Eric Buell does this super bone head move. It was so LOUD! The sound of that bike crunching was unbelievable. I was so embarrassed for him. I guess he must have been embarrassed too, but he played it up to the stands full of people by pumping his fist and shrugging his shoulders as if to say "oh well". It is something I will never forget.
10-16-2009, 01:58 PM
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But the news wouldn't leave it alone and beat it to death and whenever anyone said "audi" someone brought it up. Harley was also probably the winningest bike maker in the world and the sportster the fastest thing around long before AMF bought them and people began thinking of them as slow unreliable lumps.
10-16-2009, 06:17 PM
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And I might be getting off topic here as well but I think the greed and poor management also bleed over to people's opinions of the products-GM, Harley, etc...Folks on here seem to hate Harleys and think they're shitty bikes. I'm sorry but you may not like them or like the riding styles or the "lifestyle" and I can understand that.
Captain Chaos, you lived up to your name in terms of wreaking havoc and discord as far as I'm concerned, but I have to commend you for at least being true to your chosen name.
Last edited by nath981; 10-16-2009 at 06:21 PM.
10-16-2009, 07:05 PM
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Some Buells were interesting. Many were not. I hope Harley Ferguson doesn't do the same to MV Augusta as they did to Buell! They are by far some of the nicest bikes on the planet, not withstanding the Firestorm of course. Perhaps they see a brighter future with MV's technical know-how and by all accounts, MV needed the cash infusion. HD isn't for me but hell I know many that just love to ride them. To each their own. Without them around, I wouldn't have anyone to pick on.
