uchi

I thought our master couldn't support a 6 pot caliper?

uchi

Also if I just bolt on the calipers do I retain the stock hawk rotors or is there a bracket or way to move them out to utilise the larger rotors? Also will gixxer rotors bolt up to our front wheel?

RK1

Here are some recorded 60mph-zero braking distances from Motorcycle Consumer News.

2007 Suzuki GSX-R750... 119.2 feet.

2007 Yamaha YZF-R1.... 117.9 feet

2006 Triumph Daytona 675... 116.8 feet

2004 Kawasaki ZX-10R...... 115.5 feet

2003 Honda RC-51... 115.2 feet

2004 Aprillia Mille R.....114.3 feet

1998 VTR 1000F.......112.7 Feet.

I understand a lot of guys want to "upgrade" their SuperHawk brakes. I just can't figure out why.

uchi

I must have something wrong with my brakes. I rode my buddies 2010 triumph daytona 675 and its brakes made mine feel like I was stoppin a heavy trailer. His bike stops on a dime.

captainchaos

Haha that's pretty interesting. I will say that back when I used to ride pretty damn hard on the street, the one part of the bike I never was happy with were the front brakes. I bought that bike brand new and when we used to "roadrace" around a set of on and off ramps I used to get the front tire to skip and stutter every time. I never got to keep it long enough to upgrade anything other than the exhaust, but I know roadracingworld said just a new set of green pads and braided lines transformed the brakes. I don't know about stopping distances but hard on the brakes was night and day between my superhawk and my zx12-that thing was like dropping an anchor. If I ever finish my current money pit I'll get to test out the radial R1 calipers it has and I'll let everyone know how they feel.

uchi

You talking about ebc green pads? So what if I just grab the calipers will they work on the stock rotors or now? I know its been said that they bolt up. I'd like to do something over the winter. I know from driving cars with single piston 4 and 6 piston calipers there's night and day differences between all 3.

Tweety

For me it wasn't stopping power, it was feel... The stock brakes where all or nothing... Plus limited choice in pads... Combined with a heavy rider and a weak fork it was downright scary...

Nothing, still nothing, still nothing, damn that corner is coming fast, then the front dives and skips at the same time...

With a pair of good brakes it's progressive and easy to modulate... With the 1000RR front end I have I can easily adjust brake pressure... And if I decide to clamp down, it's like dropping an anchor... It just stops... Fast...

uchi

thats what the 675 felt like, i tap the brakes and theyre on, i didnt have to squeeze hard wondering if the bikes gonna finally grab and toss me or if its gonna keep feeling soft.

lazn

As said the 01-02 GSXR 1000 6 pot brakes are direct bolt on, no mods needed. You would want to use your Radial MC too, it will probably need a reservoir mount made for it somehow, but otherwise it should be easy.

The stock MC is tiny, it would probably work somewhat with the 6pots, but not well.

If you used the 954 calipers you have, they'd need some grinding to fit the stock forks.

I know nothing about the zx7 parts..

superhawk22

zx7 has to big of a space in between mounting holes, I used the vtr mc on the 6pot gsxr calipers and it worked fine as a matter of fact I'm still using the stock mc on the radial mount calipers I have now and it's still a big improvement over stock.

lazn

With that small of a MC and the big calipers you have enormous leverage but also a lot of lever movement. You could stop a train with the brakes you have now. Upgrading to a bigger MC will mean less brake lever movement with more "feel".. But not as much stopping power as you have.

It's all a matter of taste really. I like my F4i setup, over the 954 brakes I had earlier, and way way better than the stock VTR ones.

uchi

all good info, i passed this along to the guy whos offered me the parts as im sure hes far more experienced with this than i am. so lets hope for the best out of all of this.

superhawk22

Never had a problem with the amount of travel from the lever and actually had more "feel" with the vtr mc than the gsxr that I had with the 01 brakes.

lazn

I guess I should have said "theoretically mean" since what happens in theory vs real world aren't always the same.

uchi

looks like the deal is a good, im gonna drop my bike off to get the parts put on by this guy, hes also gonna toss in a set of apes for me, so now i just need to find the cheapest place to buy them and im all set

motojoe

I'm using the 01'-02' GSXR 1000 6-pots. Currently using the stock MC but picked up an F4i MC that I will swap out in a few days. I can tell you that just by adding the 6-pots to the bike made a huge difference.

shayne

Then you need to ride a bike that has been upgraded. My CBR600F4i set up is so much better than stock it ranks as the best mod I have done.

RK1

Maybe so Shayne, I'm mostly trying to have a bit of fun here. And I realize there is more to braking performance than stopping distance.

But I think it begs the question nobody has answered yet;

If the listed, lighter, more "serious" sport bikes have brakes vastly superior to the VTR, why do those bikes need more distance to stop?

uchi

Bike goes up sunday. We ran a few ideas around and he has a 4 pot setup that's bigger than the 6 thathis racing buddys are saying is gonna work a lot better so ill let him do what he thinks is best. Ill get pics of it once its done.

lazn

The stock brakes can lock up the front tire (any decent motorcycle brake can, even the one pot brakes on a 800lb Harley).

Better brakes give you more control, because they need less ham fisted input to work, and thus allow you to more easily use just the right amount of brakes.

The stock brakes feel like squeezing an innertube.. Also called spongy.

As for distance to stop, so much of that is the rider just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0 yes it is about ABS vs non ABS.. But notice the difference in stopping difference between the riders on the same bike.. from 59 to 92 meters to stop when trying to do the exact same stop depending on who did it.

This happens somewhat in cars, but is much more obvious on bikes.

RK1

lazn; Don't disagree with anything you said.

Just wish to point out a few things. Sure. Braking tests depend a lot on rider skill and weight.

Highly doubt that Motorcycle Consumer News picks some dude off the street for each and every one of the 36 full road tests they publish each year.

I do suspect that most if not all of the braking tests run in the same 2-3 year period as the VTR 1000f were conducted by the same guy.

The VTR stopped in 112.7 feet. The 40 lbs. lighter CBR600Fi required 115+ feet. Maybe spending hundreds of dollars and a bunch of hours putting F4I brakes on the VTR is the Bees Knees, I just don't see how. Unless the VTR tested had extraordinary exceptional brakes, I don't get it.

lazn

Perhaps, but I do know that I personally have tried stock VTR brakes, 954 brakes, and F4i brakes on my bike. And by far I have the most control - best brake feel with the F4i brakes. And no they don't cost hundreds of dollars. $75 from ebay, shipping included, plus new pads that I needed anyways. (I actually used the new pads on the 954 brakes first)

edit: and it isn't all about stopping distance.. Coming up to a corner, you don't stop first (at least I don't) and a brake system that lets me more precisely control the brakes is more valuable than one that stops me quicker.

smokinjoe73

Well, I read all that & just COULDNT keep my mouth shut. The vtr is a longer heavier bike & therefore will outstop a shorter lighter bike. Some of the best stopping bikes built are fat cruisers since no way can you approach impending stoppie while stopping. I have to agree with lazn about the f4i brakes on this bike: they are a revalation.(havent sampled others0. Just bear in mind that brakes are variable in & of themselves. On the racetrack over hundreds of laps you get an amazing feel for what is happening in a very quantifie way. Where did you brake last lap(there are presise markers), etc. I have put in brand new HH pads & glazed them durring a race with improper bed-in(still happens after 11 yrs of racing) racers are inherently impatient people, as are motorcyclists. So any brakes might improve with diff compound (although I dont love greens) or just yank the ones you have out & look at them. Are they shiny or dull? How do the rotors look? Lots of pad material deposited? A sanding of the pads & a new bed-in may be better than a brake swap. But the f4i master & calipers are better still......

lazn

SmokinJoe: that makes sense. A heavier bike will put more traction on the ground to the wheel, and a longer bike is less likely to stoppie, thus letting you brake harder and stop sooner.

Stevebis1

Uchi, make sure this "guy" knows what he is doing. A mistake on the CCT change over could trash your engine if the chain jumps. Lots of writeups available here

uchi

i sent him a few write ups and the service manual. hes been working on bikes for like 10 years and has had a shop and such and now does it out of his house, so im sure things are gonna be fine. pics to follow

shayne

Some good points on braking performance, if the figures can be trusted.

So I guess it comes down to feel and confidence. I may not be stopping any quicker, but before I was conscious of brake performance and now I never give it any thought.

RK1, if you have never ridden a bike with the swap done, then you need to do yourself the favour!

Fozzy Bear

I was running the gixxer 6 pots with the OEM mc and it was a big improvement over the standard brakes. As someone said, they were either all or nothing.
I got an F4i mc the other day from the states and its much better again. There wasn't anywhere near the lever travel required, which felt odd, but after a quick blast on a CBR1000RR (eek!), the lever travel feels nice now.
The 1000 blade felt like squeezing a brick ( and the 600RR I rode was worse).
The brakes on the blades were amazing but it felt like "all or nothing".