The President is calling - you're fired!
03-29-2009, 04:53 PM
#2
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03-29-2009, 05:57 PM
#3
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I just heard this on the radio, and got on the Forum.
Unbelievable. Who is Obamateleprompta going to replace him with? TurboTax Tim Giethner?
The White House firing the Chairman of one of the largest corporations in the world? This is unprecedented in the history of our country, as far as I know.
Unbelievable. Who is Obamateleprompta going to replace him with? TurboTax Tim Giethner?
The White House firing the Chairman of one of the largest corporations in the world? This is unprecedented in the history of our country, as far as I know.
03-29-2009, 06:49 PM
#8
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It's possible that Wagoner may be happy getting that weight off his shoulders and retiring. However he's done a lot to increase GMs overseas sales. Buicks are selling like crazy in China.
03-29-2009, 07:28 PM
#10
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C'mon guys get a grip. this whole socialism label gets seriously old - is there any circumstance it won't be applied to? Whether you like the guy or not, not everything the new adminstration does is wrong.
Lets see a failing company comes to us (our tax dollars at least) for a 'loan', bailout, whatever you want to call it. And the government says OK, but one condition is the leadership the past decade ought to leave. The leadership that got you hear in the first place. The leadership that thought it was a good idea to come a few months ago with their hands out and no plan and arrive on their corporate jets.
Hmmm, that really is way out of line............................
Lets see a failing company comes to us (our tax dollars at least) for a 'loan', bailout, whatever you want to call it. And the government says OK, but one condition is the leadership the past decade ought to leave. The leadership that got you hear in the first place. The leadership that thought it was a good idea to come a few months ago with their hands out and no plan and arrive on their corporate jets.
Hmmm, that really is way out of line............................
03-29-2009, 07:48 PM
#11
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People who don't pay taxes, and many who are not even here legally, are getting free medical care, education, welfare checks and food stamps. While those of us who my former tax man used to call "the great American taxpayers", pay the bill.
That sounds like socialism to me.
That sounds like socialism to me.
03-29-2009, 08:17 PM
#13
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America is already largely socialist.
AFDC, WIC, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Section Eight Housing, Food Stamps, Affirmative Action, taxpayer funding for La Raza, ACORN, and the like, farm subsidies, Pell Grants, half a thousand other redistributionist give aways.
All funded by a "progressive" income tax.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Karl Marx 1875
AFDC, WIC, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Section Eight Housing, Food Stamps, Affirmative Action, taxpayer funding for La Raza, ACORN, and the like, farm subsidies, Pell Grants, half a thousand other redistributionist give aways.
All funded by a "progressive" income tax.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Karl Marx 1875
03-29-2009, 08:45 PM
#14
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People who don't pay taxes, and many who are not even here legally, are getting free medical care, education, welfare checks and food stamps. While those of us who my former tax man used to call "the great American taxpayers", pay the bill.
That sounds like socialism to me.
That sounds like socialism to me.
I (and maybe some others) would appreciate it if you quit hijacking threads with these tired and unrelated arguments.
03-29-2009, 08:52 PM
#15
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Squid
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Hehehe you guys are funny, sorry but from countries (and era's) that haven't been saturated in pro-capitalist anti-socialist media forever, we have very different views on what those terms mean. Not to ride you or anything, big fan, have family in new york that i visit all the time, but somethings benefit from having a degree of government oversight (at least from the australian perspective) Superannuation, companies are not allowed access to employee's superannuation.
03-29-2009, 08:52 PM
#16
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I was merely answering Cliby's post #10. The government dictating who runs major corporations seems to me to be of great interest to all. This kind of thread lends itself to open discussion on that topic. We don't all have to agree though.
03-29-2009, 11:03 PM
#17
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I'm sure there were stipulations when GM took bail-out money that GM couldn't fullfill... hence Wagoner's departure. He's a pompous *** anyhow. I'm a GM man myself... but Ford definitely has the better management... by a long shot.
03-29-2009, 11:30 PM
#18
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IMO it was about time.
Bailing out companies that failed their business system or paying bonuses to underperforming employees is against the essence of capitalism.
I'm glad this administration is finally addressing these flaws. To me these are steps necessary to ensure true capitalism will survive in this country.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-...-14778215.html
Bailing out companies that failed their business system or paying bonuses to underperforming employees is against the essence of capitalism.
I'm glad this administration is finally addressing these flaws. To me these are steps necessary to ensure true capitalism will survive in this country.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-...-14778215.html
03-29-2009, 11:50 PM
#19
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You may be, and I suspect you are right about Wagoner, but his full partners in wrecking GM are the UAW leadership. Funny Obama hasn't demanded any of them step aside.
03-30-2009, 06:50 AM
#20
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Obama is doing an awesome job.....
...of turning the premises this country was founded on into his own personal toilet paper.
This isn't a matter of partisan biases, the fact of the matter is that the current administration has placed the country on a slippery slope. I would like to see Osama live up to the hype. I would like to see him do good things with the country and i'm not one of those people keeping my fingers crossed hoping he fails. Fact of that matter is "socialism" isn't just a buzzword being used by the media...we're the closest we've ever been to a totalitarian gov. and it scares the hell out of me.
...of turning the premises this country was founded on into his own personal toilet paper.
This isn't a matter of partisan biases, the fact of the matter is that the current administration has placed the country on a slippery slope. I would like to see Osama live up to the hype. I would like to see him do good things with the country and i'm not one of those people keeping my fingers crossed hoping he fails. Fact of that matter is "socialism" isn't just a buzzword being used by the media...we're the closest we've ever been to a totalitarian gov. and it scares the hell out of me.
03-30-2009, 07:35 AM
#21
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Wagoner made no sense on his descisions most of the time. Obama has made reference to the UAW to make concessions also. Wagoner seemed to have the idea if one was great four has to be better... I'm a sales consultant at a Buick Pontiac GMC dealer. They gave us the GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave, which are greta vehicles and sell very well. So GM descides to bring out the Saturn Outlook and Chevy Transverse. The Market didn't get bigger they just cut it by half. Good riddence to Wagoner. Now if we can some how break the union...
$1500.00 of the price of every GM vehicle pays for health care alone. We need a change.
$1500.00 of the price of every GM vehicle pays for health care alone. We need a change.
03-30-2009, 08:07 AM
#22
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Wagoner made no sense on his descisions most of the time. Obama has made reference to the UAW to make concessions also. Wagoner seemed to have the idea if one was great four has to be better... I'm a sales consultant at a Buick Pontiac GMC dealer. They gave us the GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave, which are greta vehicles and sell very well. So GM descides to bring out the Saturn Outlook and Chevy Transverse. The Market didn't get bigger they just cut it by half.
WOW. Is that # accurate? Can you give proof? That is alot of money... I'm not doubting, I just wondered if you or someone pulled it out of your *** or if it was a actual #..
I agree that unions need to make some concessions. Not JUST UAW, though. I could go more into depth, but I havent the patience.
03-30-2009, 08:22 AM
#23
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Yeah I wondered what was the deal there.. they did the same with the Solstice or whatever that raodster is called.. WTF? Same car different badging makes NO sense to me.
WOW. Is that # accurate? Can you give proof? That is alot of money... I'm not doubting, I just wondered if you or someone pulled it out of your *** or if it was a actual #..
I agree that unions need to make some concessions. Not JUST UAW, though. I could go more into depth, but I havent the patience.
WOW. Is that # accurate? Can you give proof? That is alot of money... I'm not doubting, I just wondered if you or someone pulled it out of your *** or if it was a actual #..
I agree that unions need to make some concessions. Not JUST UAW, though. I could go more into depth, but I havent the patience.
GM tried to take care of the workers. But, if the expense keeps compounding everyday, how long can you keep it up?
03-30-2009, 08:59 AM
#24
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Since they obviously can't leave well enough alone...
The gov't should just take over all or part of the legacy costs of GM, put all those retired workers into their magical government run health-care system, bankrupt GM and let them try again with new management and renegotiated union contracts.
That's the only way they'll have a chance to be viable. All this bullshit of one-time payments is a quickfix, does nothing to change the long term situation, which is that their costs of operation are greater than the foreign labels.
The gov't should just take over all or part of the legacy costs of GM, put all those retired workers into their magical government run health-care system, bankrupt GM and let them try again with new management and renegotiated union contracts.
That's the only way they'll have a chance to be viable. All this bullshit of one-time payments is a quickfix, does nothing to change the long term situation, which is that their costs of operation are greater than the foreign labels.
03-30-2009, 09:04 AM
#25
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Since they obviously can't leave well enough alone...
The gov't should just take over all or part of the legacy costs of GM, put all those retired workers into their magical government run health-care system, bankrupt GM and let them try again with new management and renegotiated union contracts.
That's the only way they'll have a chance to be viable. All this bullshit of one-time payments is a quickfix, does nothing to change the long term situation, which is that their costs of operation are greater than the foreign labels.
The gov't should just take over all or part of the legacy costs of GM, put all those retired workers into their magical government run health-care system, bankrupt GM and let them try again with new management and renegotiated union contracts.
That's the only way they'll have a chance to be viable. All this bullshit of one-time payments is a quickfix, does nothing to change the long term situation, which is that their costs of operation are greater than the foreign labels.
Damned if you do...Damned if you don't...
03-30-2009, 10:42 AM
#26
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C'mon guys get a grip. this whole socialism label gets seriously old - is there any circumstance it won't be applied to? Whether you like the guy or not, not everything the new adminstration does is wrong.
Lets see a failing company comes to us (our tax dollars at least) for a 'loan', bailout, whatever you want to call it. And the government says OK, but one condition is the leadership the past decade ought to leave. The leadership that got you hear in the first place. The leadership that thought it was a good idea to come a few months ago with their hands out and no plan and arrive on their corporate jets.
Hmmm, that really is way out of line............................
Lets see a failing company comes to us (our tax dollars at least) for a 'loan', bailout, whatever you want to call it. And the government says OK, but one condition is the leadership the past decade ought to leave. The leadership that got you hear in the first place. The leadership that thought it was a good idea to come a few months ago with their hands out and no plan and arrive on their corporate jets.
Hmmm, that really is way out of line............................
Well Cliby, you happen to be right. Socialism is simply the government redistributing wealth.
Communism is the government owning the means of production.
Call a Red a Red.
GM and Wagoner sold their soul when they accepted Government money. If I EVER would have bought a GM product, I won't now.
Did making junk get them here? Of course it did.
Did the UAW participate? Of course they did.
Poor federal government - now having to reconsider all that historic union support?!?
Unions are the control by one group of commodity or service (Labor) The UAW monopolizes that service across state lines. Sherman Anti trust anyone? There is a reason for Anti trust laws - obviously no one ever applied it to the $71/hr UAW worker.
Guess I can still buy a Ford, but I'll wait until Ford can make em as good as my Honda. If I want to give to charity I'll give to one that calls itself a charity.
04-03-2009, 05:01 PM
#27
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Squid
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Well, I am glad to see that the conservatives are still railing on Obama. The reality is he has done more to correct the huge mistakes of the past administration in the last 60 days we thought possible. We tried it their way and almost lost the whole country to greed and theft. Now we are going to try it his way and I for one am comfortable with what he has done so far with the exception of not pulling out of Iraq as fast as I'd like. As for socialism, We need government control for all the commons in this country. I would include health care in that along with police, firemen, power distribution, highway and road maintenance, water, the military and anything else shared openly by the people. When you place these things in the hands of the "free Market" or worse yet in the hands of private entities, corruption takes place. Sorry lady we can't come put your fire out, you didn't pay your fire bill last month...
Oh and by the way, socialism isn't communism.
Oh and by the way, socialism isn't communism.
04-03-2009, 05:14 PM
#28
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Well, I am glad to see that the conservatives are still railing on Obama. The reality is he has done more to correct the huge mistakes of the past administration in the last 60 days we thought possible. We tried it their way and almost lost the whole country to greed and theft. Now we are going to try it his way and I for one am comfortable with what he has done so far with the exception of not pulling out of Iraq as fast as I'd like. As for socialism, We need government control for all the commons in this country. I would include health care in that along with police, firemen, power distribution, highway and road maintenance, water, the military and anything else shared openly by the people. When you place these things in the hands of the "free Market" or worse yet in the hands of private entities, corruption takes place. Sorry lady we can't come put your fire out, you didn't pay your fire bill last month...
Oh and by the way, socialism isn't communism.
Oh and by the way, socialism isn't communism.
From where I sit, Obama looks like nothing so much as the third term of the Bush administration- on steroids.
04-03-2009, 06:09 PM
#29
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I don't like the general attitude lately that just because you have something, and someone else needs it, that you're obligated to give it to them.
04-03-2009, 06:13 PM
#30
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Sounds good to me. Why should I pay because she fell asleep smoking a cig or had her brother in-law do some faulty electrical work?
I don't like the general attitude lately that just because you have something, and someone else needs it, that you're obligated to give it to them.
I don't like the general attitude lately that just because you have something, and someone else needs it, that you're obligated to give it to them.
