So, to be sympathetic...
What is the measure of a decent man that is willing to work and support his family (and pay taxes as well as be a citizen)? Is there a small test that we can give them on the other side of the river to see if they have come to the USA to coast it out or be a participant in our society? I don't think there is, and if there was we should start giving it to graduating students. Those who fail can be pushed across the border the other direction in trade.

Another direction for sympathy, let them into your house. Let them eat dinner at your table, use your bathroom, hop on your insurance plan, etc etc. What? you don't want illegal immigrants living off your hard earnings????? what if they are just trying to find a better life?

Just another case of not in my backyard

 

nuhawk;

Is Pete illegal or just an American guy who happens to be ethnic "Mexican"? I'm not talking about Americans.

Anyhow-

Definitely sounds different where you're at. Out here, and every other place I know about, you can't get ICE to come out for anything less than a serious and violent felony. Sometimes not even then.

No illegals out here ever get arrested or jailed for no DL, insurance, busted tail light or anything like that.

And no matter how many 18th street gang or MS-13 tats they have, the cops don't ask about immigration status.

 

Pete was never legal and signed his paycheck with an "X". He never said it but we all knew it - we were in HIS backyard. One of the boys, a muslim who's brother was killed by the Russians in Afghanistan called him (sorry about my Spanish spelling) Weywos Grande. Big eggs. You figure it out.

 

Juevos.

 

I'm only good at a few things, thanks!

 

De nada.

 

I take it back - this thread is alive.

It's all a question of motivation. As I see it, Goldman Sachs fatcats are largely motivated by greed, whereas illegals are motivated by just trying survive and have a decent life. Those are generalizations, and there is a lot of gray area, but that's the gist. I don't really give a damn which one is costing me more. I care that one group has obviously been corrupted by power, and the other group is probably just trying to get by. That's a difference that can't be measured in dollars. If you want to get more angry at the illegals than at the bankers, fine. It's basically saying that brown people being kind of bad are still WAY WORSE than white people being REALLY REALLY bad. Is that fair? Nope. Is it racist? Up to you.

The motivation question is worth considering even on this forum. Why are we posting here? What makes us so passionate about these issues? I'd like to think most of us are motivated by love of what we think is right and just, but I fear some of us here are more fueled by hatred than anything else. Whatever you believe, it's worth asking yourself, why? Why do I feel this way about it? Why am I defending or attacking this or that? Why do illegals come here? Why don't politicians fix immigration laws? Why did Honda build the VTR with crappy cam chain tensioners?

There's probably no room in any of the answers for just declaring a whole group of people to be evil and corrupt, or greedy and violent, or perfect and wonderful. Life is never, ever, ever that simple. Bush did quite a lot of horrible things when he was in power, but his most damaging legacy was his proposition that we live in a black and white world, that you're either with us or against us. As long as people still think that, we're totally and completely screwed.

 

Evidently it will now be politically acceptable to use the terms "Wetback, N***** (I find that one offensive, except in Blazing Saddles), Dago, Spic, Honkie (I've been called that one), Gook, etc.

Here's why:
The Health Care Bill that Obama is trying to get passed refers to Mentally Disabled people as RETARDED.

And let's see....who wrote this bill? That's right, it's the DEMOCRATS. (picture that as a Donkey, not a horse)

 

Good points.

 

Where the hell do you live that "retarded" is as bad a word as "n*****"? The very fact that we're using asterisks instead of even spelling out the N word shows how much more offensive it is than "retarded." Spend a day walking around calling people retarded, then spend another day walking around calling people that other one. Let me know how it works out for you.

You're confusing "non-politically correct" with "racist." There is a huge difference. Of course people have been conflating the two for this entire thread, so your image of beating a dead horse is kind of funny in that respect.

 

Anyways, do you or does anyone else want to weigh in on where the country would be right now if a different guy had been elected prez? Seems like the most fire-breathing members around here are big on the haterade and short on solution sauce. What would Ron Paul or John Mccain be doin right now that would be better? And again, I ask that seriously.

It's one thing to say, "My guy WOULDN'T be doing all the crap Obama is doing!!!!" And that's all well and good. But then, what would your guy be DOING? What choices would he have made, what actions would he have taken? How are those choices better than the ones Obama has made? Crapping all over the guy without elaborating what your guy would've done better basically makes your argument boil down to "Obama sux!"... which is useless. For example, I wanted Obama to win because I thought he would improve the healthcare system, not just because I knew he would refrain from pulling off Bush-type bonehead moves.

I challenge all of you who voted Republican/Independent to frame your argument in this positive light.

 

Man, thanks for the waist high slow pitch softball. If Ron Paul was President there would be no U.S. troops in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. No foreign aid to any other country. No Obama rendition of prisoners to turd world torture chambers. No Obama defence of warrantless wiretaps and the phone companies who cooperate with them.

No "anchor babies". No welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing vouchers, WIC coupons, affirmative action anti white racism. Borders which are secured and immigration laws which are enforced.

The Federal Government would be limited to the enumerated powers of Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution, the contract between Americans and their government.

No more "Brady Law", no GCA '68, No NFA '34. All flatly unconstitutional.

You'd be responsible for your own self, own life, own "health care" 'cause there isn't a God Damn ******* thing in the Constitution which authorizes the government to steal from someone else and give some of what they stole to your sorry ******* ***. It's called LIBERTY. Give it a try for the first time in about 78 years, you might like it.

"Liberals" and "progressives" who claim to care so much about the poor and unfortunate would have to put their money where there big fat ******* mouths are instead of stealing from others and congratulating themselves on how "compassionate" they are for doing so.

I could go on but I'm stopping to have another shot of bourbon and fondle my 12 gauge.

 

You obviously don't know anyone who has "retarded" kids. Two personal friends of mine have mentally disabled adult children, and they would take great offense to anyone calling them retarded.

I taught Vocational Automotives for 34 years, and I had many high school students and adults with all kinds of disabilities. If someone called one of the Special Needs students "retarded", I gurantee you some of the other students would be all over them.

I had students from all over the world. And one of my former students from 25 years ago became a coworker and is a very close friend to this day. He is not only black, he was born and lived in Africa until his family legally immigrated to the US when he was 13, not knowing a word of English. When Ezzy enrolled in my class in his early 20's, I thought he was born here.

Obviously you also don't understand sarcasm. I'm just saying that it was a bonehead move by some bonehead Democrat to refer to the mentally disabled in that manner in a Congressional Bill. I was making a point in a way that would get everyone's attention.

And I'm really pissed of with Obama pulling the race card during a Prime Time Press Conference. When he was elected I even told friends, including Ezzy, "Well, at least this should quiet down Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson from all their talk of racism in America".

 

You're putting words in my mouth.

Nobody is pre-programmed. White politicians of America INVENTED this culture of entitlement, and they teach it to every poor, needy person, whether they're black, white or brown in exchange for a vote. Paying for other people's "rights" undermines the incentive for being productive and self-sufficient, so it breeds more entitlement, which increases their voter base.

Next Obama will buy them all a moped (with your money) to ensure they make it to the voting booth in 2012.

 

Realistically though, things don't change that quickly, nor is the president and his appointees powerful enough to. I guess the brainwashed "entitlementalists" would oppose, but as the past year has clearly shown that it doesn't matter if the majority disapproves of government actions. Paul would spend all his time cleaning up other people's messes, which would probably convolute and damage his legacy. It's so screwed right now that even under the best of circumstances, it would take more than a generation to change.

Obama on the other hand hasn't cleaned up any of Bush's mess, he's just piled on a few trillion more.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...est=latestnews
Hey, its in the news today that the grand state of Hawaii has "again" inspected Obamas Birth records and the very same health official (Dr. Chiyome Fukino) has repeated the same lines as she did in October.
Also, Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo agrees.

Somehow, this just makes the situation worse, not better ... they still refuse to show the ****, and frankly the situation really is starting to stink like it.
JUST SHOW THE GODDAMN BIRTH CERTIFICATE, and maybe this will go away ...
But Im afraid, they cant. And its not for the laws pertaining to privacy as they claim too.
Can you imagine the impact of rolling out another forgery?
The political whiplash of trying and failing to push this under the rug one last time?

We knowGD well enough the 1st document they showed (these same moron officials who have "verified" this news again for us so carefully) was a ******* forgery.

cmon Bama-bots, you are going to have to do wayyyyyyy better than this !
Just shut up already, because you are only implicating your elected fraud messiah.

 

Do you have a link on the socalled forgery?

Have you been to Hawaii lately and seen how they run things? Those government "officials" probably sold it on ebay or rolled it up and smoked it.

 

[QUOTE=CentralCoaster;228714]You're putting words in my mouth.

Nobody is pre-programmed. White politicians of America INVENTED this culture of entitlement, and they teach it to every poor, needy person, whether they're black, white or brown in exchange for a vote. Paying for other people's "rights" undermines the incentive for being productive and self-sufficient, so it breeds more entitlement, which increases their voter base.

Bullshit. It is the Mexican government which provides "Matricular Consular" cards to Mexican national illegal aliens, educates Mexicans on U.S. "anchor baby" law, welfare law, and it is the Mexican Consulates who provide advice for and directions to U.S. "social service" agencies. And it is Mexico who taxes the **** out of monies sent back to Mexico from Mexican national wetbacks living illegally in the U.S.

Wake the **** up. It is Mexico which is "ethnically cleansing" itself of its Indian population.

Want to bloviate about "racism"? Bloviate about Mexico.

PS re "white politicians" inventing entitlement;

Can you name any "Mexican American" politicians (of the thousands holding office) anywhere in the U.S. who opposes those entitlements for Mexican illegal aliens? I'll settle for a handful. A handful who are a real Americans instead of racialist LA RAZA *** ******. NAME THEM.

 

I'm not sure how you could argue against this birth certificate issue without providing any evidence that said otherwise. You might as well argue he was from outerspace.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

I find it revolting really, look at these people, it's like a lynch mob:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nm...layer_embedded

 

The Hawaii "certificate of live birth" mentioned by Snopes is not a birth certificate. It was available to the foreign born children of foreign nationals who had moved to Hawaii.

The actual birth certificate which would prove where and when Obama was born is what he has spent millions of dollars to prevent being released.

Why is that?

PS If you see ordinary people challenging there Congressman as a "lynch mob", It's a good thing you weren't here when another "lynch mob" wrote the Declaration of Independence and challenged King George.

 

How dare those people demand that the "president" prove his eligibility for the office he holds!

As far as I'm concerned we need a whole lot more people at the local level who are righteously outraged over corrupt government and who are demanding transparency and straight answers from our elected "officials" (employees).

 

Ok, here's a pic of a "long form" birth certificate from Hawaii, about 10 years after Obama was born.

http://www.marblewallet.com/images/birthcertificate.jpg

Here's another from 1963:

http://www.marblewallet.com/images/birthcertificate.jpg

1962:

http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/g...dith_front.jpg

It seems that there's a "long form" and "short form" and that Hawaii does not give out copies of the long form, at least not any more. This short form was probably produced in Hawaii sometime in 2007, just as they would do for any other Hawaiian requesting a cert for getting a passport or running for president, etc. According to Hawaii law though, that certificate shown is a legal birth record.

How many of you have your ORIGINAL birth certificate? I bet you've got a copy that you ordered from the state you were born in. Just happens that your state offers you a copy of the "long form". Hawaii doesn't.

I don't see the point of this argument. Is the goal to kick him out because he's ineligible, or is the goal to cover up some worldwide conspiracy that muslims are going to take over the U.S.?


And supposedly this is a Hawaii newpaper clipping:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...arBulletin.jpg

 

That's not a lynch mob you dipshit; ask Reginald Denny what a lynch mob is if your feeble liberal mind can't differentiate law-abiding folks carefully exercising their right to public assembly from marauding free-loaders hell-bent on riot and mayhem.