Low cost Gear Position Indicator, interest?
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18
From: Shawnee, KS
Marcus, you have probably already thought of this, but just in case... how about having it look for a certain pattern or setup with the brake/clutch combo at startup? Something like clutch in/out, brake on/off 3 times and in neutral, and only available within the first 2 or 3 seconds after startup.
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Marcus, you have probably already thought of this, but just in case... how about having it look for a certain pattern or setup with the brake/clutch combo at startup? Something like clutch in/out, brake on/off 3 times and in neutral, and only available within the first 2 or 3 seconds after startup.
And if you have it in neutral and hold the clutch in for x seconds it let's you set up the ambient sensor (how bright you want it) and potentially the shiftlight...
Since you rarely sit around holding the clutch in while in neutral, it's unlikely that someone will trip them unwillingly... As long as you have a gear in, you can hold the clutch for ever as far as the GPI cares...
Great minds huh...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Well if you mean all segments of the numerical display, yes, that's pretty easy... That's just software... But the general idea now is doing both that, and a friggin big LED... If you can't see that one you shouldn't be operating a bike... In fact I'm more concerned that it might be too much and distract people...It's bright enough that it's somewhat painful to look at...
Senior Member
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 293
Um... Ok... I'm not sure I understood what you where saying... The charge warning light doesn't need a microprocessor, it works a lot better as "oldschool"...
But are you saying you'd want it on the same card? It's certainly possible, but I already have it as SMD (surface mount) in a tiny board ½" by 1" or soo... If you want I can make one of those with the LED's on a few inches of wire... Then you can stick the LED's any place you desire on the dashboard and hide the card...
Attachment 10555
But are you saying you'd want it on the same card? It's certainly possible, but I already have it as SMD (surface mount) in a tiny board ½" by 1" or soo... If you want I can make one of those with the LED's on a few inches of wire... Then you can stick the LED's any place you desire on the dashboard and hide the card...
Attachment 10555
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
OK, I think I found a reasonable compromise on the shiftligth... Everybody gets their wish...
The reason I have been struggling with it is simple... First of all I want the GPI to be small enough to mount inside the gauges, adding to much stuff makes it bulky and hard to fit... Second, cost & complexity goes up with it included, for it to be visible in the daytime the LED needs to be rather expensive...
So my compromise is this... I have included the components to drive one or several LED's on the 5V supply but it's external... Ie there are two holes for soldering on a wire and a slot for a resistor (hole mounted, easy to solder) so you calculate the needed resistor and hook things up... If you are creative you could manage to mount the shiftlight inside the gauges, but it's just as easy to mount them outside... That's up to you... The GPI can drive 1-4 LED's in series and/or parallel (100 mA total), with that you can make it as annoying as you like...
The result is a circuit with no unneccesary components (the components for driving the output is negligable in cost, about the same as capping of the pin on the processor), small in size and cheap... But anyone with basic soldering skills can hook up an external shiftlight...
On the SW side I'll program it to flash both the display on the GPI and the shiftlight at the selectable RPM... That way if you choose to have no shiftlight you still get the basic function... I haven't figured out a good way to have the option to turn that off in the SW yet, but it should be possible to do so if you like...
The reason I have been struggling with it is simple... First of all I want the GPI to be small enough to mount inside the gauges, adding to much stuff makes it bulky and hard to fit... Second, cost & complexity goes up with it included, for it to be visible in the daytime the LED needs to be rather expensive...
So my compromise is this... I have included the components to drive one or several LED's on the 5V supply but it's external... Ie there are two holes for soldering on a wire and a slot for a resistor (hole mounted, easy to solder) so you calculate the needed resistor and hook things up... If you are creative you could manage to mount the shiftlight inside the gauges, but it's just as easy to mount them outside... That's up to you... The GPI can drive 1-4 LED's in series and/or parallel (100 mA total), with that you can make it as annoying as you like...
The result is a circuit with no unneccesary components (the components for driving the output is negligable in cost, about the same as capping of the pin on the processor), small in size and cheap... But anyone with basic soldering skills can hook up an external shiftlight...
On the SW side I'll program it to flash both the display on the GPI and the shiftlight at the selectable RPM... That way if you choose to have no shiftlight you still get the basic function... I haven't figured out a good way to have the option to turn that off in the SW yet, but it should be possible to do so if you like...
Last edited by Tweety; Nov 20, 2010 at 05:47 AM.
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Also, on Uchi's questions about sticking it on other bikes... I have figured out a way to program it so that you can compensate for various VSS readings... Basically you "teach" it how many signals per revolution of the rear wheel...
The downside is that it's friggin annoying and takes several attempts to get a reliable reading, so I'll program the units for other bikes with that and keep it off the standard one... Alternatively I could program it to be "told" how many pulses to use, but that requires the user to use an oscilloscope to find out on his bike...
So basically, if the bike has a 12V system, a speedsensor and electronic speedo and a sensor for neutral the GPI will fit... That should cover about 90% of sportsbikes but no promises...
The downside is that it's friggin annoying and takes several attempts to get a reliable reading, so I'll program the units for other bikes with that and keep it off the standard one... Alternatively I could program it to be "told" how many pulses to use, but that requires the user to use an oscilloscope to find out on his bike...
So basically, if the bike has a 12V system, a speedsensor and electronic speedo and a sensor for neutral the GPI will fit... That should cover about 90% of sportsbikes but no promises...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
RUNLEVELZERO #99
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,218
From: Skokie
Another question & totally separate one
Marcus,
I'm still interested in your shift indicator/light but am curious if the display will automatically dim at nigh like the Starlane unit (http://www.kneedraggers.com/product/...th-Shift-Light which is "only" $119)? As I still feel more comfortable installing your unit externally (despite having to find/build a case for it), whatever you come up with is OK but will need input for how to wire the shift light LEDs.
The separate question I have pertains to how I have my headlight powered. long ago I built a new wiring harness with 2 relays (one for hi beam & one for low-beam) wired separate fuses similar to the harness Eastern Beaver sells but just recently realized the bulb is not getting maximum amperage even though my harness utilizes 16 gauge wires and the relays are only triggered by the OE hi-beam switch, because amperage is being "choked-down" by a headlight modulator (HM) that utilizes at most 18 (and maybe 20) gauge wire (which is stupid). In other words the bulb is not getting maximum amperage due to the HM small-gauge wire. My question to you is can you build a HM with 16 gauge minimum wire & circuitry so I (we) can use a heavy-duty H4 headlight relay wiring harness? If your interested, Kisan makes their P115W-H3 model which I otherwise plan on buying for under $100 http://www.ridesafer.com/ProductDeta...uctCode=LM0030 to replace the very old kriss unit I have installed now http://www.kriss.com/h4mod.php
I'm still interested in your shift indicator/light but am curious if the display will automatically dim at nigh like the Starlane unit (http://www.kneedraggers.com/product/...th-Shift-Light which is "only" $119)? As I still feel more comfortable installing your unit externally (despite having to find/build a case for it), whatever you come up with is OK but will need input for how to wire the shift light LEDs.
The separate question I have pertains to how I have my headlight powered. long ago I built a new wiring harness with 2 relays (one for hi beam & one for low-beam) wired separate fuses similar to the harness Eastern Beaver sells but just recently realized the bulb is not getting maximum amperage even though my harness utilizes 16 gauge wires and the relays are only triggered by the OE hi-beam switch, because amperage is being "choked-down" by a headlight modulator (HM) that utilizes at most 18 (and maybe 20) gauge wire (which is stupid). In other words the bulb is not getting maximum amperage due to the HM small-gauge wire. My question to you is can you build a HM with 16 gauge minimum wire & circuitry so I (we) can use a heavy-duty H4 headlight relay wiring harness? If your interested, Kisan makes their P115W-H3 model which I otherwise plan on buying for under $100 http://www.ridesafer.com/ProductDeta...uctCode=LM0030 to replace the very old kriss unit I have installed now http://www.kriss.com/h4mod.php
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Marcus,
I'm still interested in your shift indicator/light but am curious if the display will automatically dim at nigh like the Starlane unit (http://www.kneedraggers.com/product/...th-Shift-Light which is "only" $119)? As I still feel more comfortable installing your unit externally (despite having to find/build a case for it), whatever you come up with is OK but will need input for how to wire the shift light LEDs.
I'm still interested in your shift indicator/light but am curious if the display will automatically dim at nigh like the Starlane unit (http://www.kneedraggers.com/product/...th-Shift-Light which is "only" $119)? As I still feel more comfortable installing your unit externally (despite having to find/build a case for it), whatever you come up with is OK but will need input for how to wire the shift light LEDs.
That is, apart from the 9 gears... Who and what has 9 gears?! So far I'm planning the option of 5 & 6 gears, since that makes setup easy, anybody have needs for other options let me know and I'll change the software...
Yes, there is a dimmer function on the display, not on the shiftlight though, since that's external... Also, I'll include a very easy to understand instruction for wiring the shiftlight LED's... Plus, you'll be able to get online support fairly easy...
Another "feature" of my GPI, is that since I'm beefing up the powersupply for durability with the bikes charging being a bit variable, as a side effect, it is capable of driving much larger displays...
With 100 mA for the shiftlight, you can probably burn out your retinas with a blue superbright LED... And with the GPI capable of supplying up to 30 mA per segment of the display, you can use any Common Anode display, in every color/light intensity you prefer (most blue and green need 20 or 30 mA, red and yellow 10 or 20 mA)...
You just unclip the supplied display (It's not soldered in) and wire up the new one with a cable... Or buy the same size/manufacturer in another color if you are just looking for bling-bling...
Also, since I seem to have spare pins on the MCU, I'm contemplating using one to "pre-configure" the GPI for VTR's ie hardcoding tested values and then you select either "VTR-Mode" or "Universal"... "Universal" means more setup, but should in theory work on any modern bike concievable...
The separate question I have pertains to how I have my headlight powered. long ago I built a new wiring harness with 2 relays (one for hi beam & one for low-beam) wired separate fuses similar to the harness Eastern Beaver sells but just recently realized the bulb is not getting maximum amperage even though my harness utilizes 16 gauge wires and the relays are only triggered by the OE hi-beam switch, because amperage is being "choked-down" by a headlight modulator (HM) that utilizes at most 18 (and maybe 20) gauge wire (which is stupid). In other words the bulb is not getting maximum amperage due to the HM small-gauge wire. My question to you is can you build a HM with 16 gauge minimum wire & circuitry so I (we) can use a heavy-duty H4 headlight relay wiring harness? If your interested, Kisan makes their P115W-H3 model which I otherwise plan on buying for under $100 http://www.ridesafer.com/ProductDeta...uctCode=LM0030 to replace the very old kriss unit I have installed now http://www.kriss.com/h4mod.php
Because of that I haven't researched it...Unfortunately I doubt I can compete with that price as a one of, since the cost of the components/PCB usually gets cut in half once you order 50+ of them... But I'll do some research and get back to you in a few days...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
BTW, I just realized this is now spread out over several posts... These are the specs as of now... Still not completely nailed down, could change from testing/programming quirks and you guys can still make wishes (Within reason... )
GPI Specification
11.5-15.5V input (18V max, reverse polarity protection)
400 mA Nominal current (Internal overcurrent/overheat protection)
6-wire hookup, 4 signal wires (Clutch & Neutral, 12V switch) (VSS & Tacho, 5V or 12V Square/Wave signal)
5 & 6 speed gearbox compatible, pre-programmed for the VTR but can be set to "Universal mode" - This is just a thought as of yet... Lemme know if you like it...
7-segment LED display with ambient lightsensor (programmable sensitivity)
Shiftlight function, swappable for other size/color
Shiftlight function, display flashes at programmable RPM (Can be disabled)
2-wire external shiftlight hookup, 1-4 LED's (supplies 5V, max 100 mA)
Programmable on road or workstand, no external button (uses clutch as "button" in setup)
Retains memory without power, infinitely re-programmable
Single circuitboard (30*30*12 mm) for internal mounting in gauges
)GPI Specification
11.5-15.5V input (18V max, reverse polarity protection)
400 mA Nominal current (Internal overcurrent/overheat protection)
6-wire hookup, 4 signal wires (Clutch & Neutral, 12V switch) (VSS & Tacho, 5V or 12V Square/Wave signal)
5 & 6 speed gearbox compatible, pre-programmed for the VTR but can be set to "Universal mode" - This is just a thought as of yet... Lemme know if you like it...
7-segment LED display with ambient lightsensor (programmable sensitivity)
Shiftlight function, swappable for other size/color
Shiftlight function, display flashes at programmable RPM (Can be disabled)
2-wire external shiftlight hookup, 1-4 LED's (supplies 5V, max 100 mA)
Programmable on road or workstand, no external button (uses clutch as "button" in setup)
Retains memory without power, infinitely re-programmable
Single circuitboard (30*30*12 mm) for internal mounting in gauges
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,978
From: thorold ontario
sweet, lots of good info, my head hurts a little from reading it, but i like it, let me know when its done and ready to ship ill buy one 
would we have to program our own shift light rpm or would you have to pre program it? i know some guys rev a little higher than others, i need a shift light mostly for the lower rpms as the bike winds out pretty fast in the first 2 gears with my re gear and ive eaten the limiter on many occasions 
would we have to program our own shift light rpm or would you have to pre program it? i know some guys rev a little higher than others, i need a shift light mostly for the lower rpms as the bike winds out pretty fast in the first 2 gears with my re gear and ive eaten the limiter on many occasions
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
That would be pre-set to a middle of the road value, and then you can change it dynamically... Ie if you are running a tight track, you can just set it for the day if you like and then set it back another time...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Yeah, definetly under $100 US, hopefully more like $75 but right now it seems to hover around $80-85 with me getting some pay for my time (trust me, not much, but I do this mostly for fun anyways)... And that is with me calculating with 20 units pre-ordered... Not all here though, some on the Swedish forum, so say 15'ish here which seems doable... If I get 40+ orders I can get them down to $75'ish, but that's probably wishful thinking...
Note! This is just me babbling, no promises as of yet... Still need to get a new prototype made and tested to see if all my new improvements work as planned...
Note! This is just me babbling, no promises as of yet... Still need to get a new prototype made and tested to see if all my new improvements work as planned...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
OK, I finalized board design... And my design software just got a nifty 3D view I had to try... It refuses to render the photoresistor and display though... Bummer... Other than that the display will sit above it all on the white boxy outline...
The large through hole resistor is the one you guys get to solder for the Shiftlight, ie if you want a shiftlight...
BTW If you are wondering... Yes, there is even more components on the back of the card...
The large through hole resistor is the one you guys get to solder for the Shiftlight, ie if you want a shiftlight...
BTW If you are wondering... Yes, there is even more components on the back of the card...
Last edited by Tweety; Nov 24, 2010 at 12:11 PM.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Hahaha Tweety the stuff you do is waaaaaay over my head. I always just pretended the electronics worked by magic and if anyone tried to play with or alter them, they would go away because magic isn't real!
Btw isn't it unsafe to put the board on water like that
Btw isn't it unsafe to put the board on water like that
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
And nope... Since it's not hooked up yet, water is fine...
In real world, it still wouldn't really be a problem since it will be coated with a thick plastic clearcoat, so until anyone scrapes that to solder the resistor you could pretty much drown it and it would still work...
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Watching this thread progress was cool- I'd never known how this kind thing was done before, but on a "smaller" level it at least registers somewhat to me. I know there's a bunch of background stuff you're doing...
On kind of a side note, what other types of things like this have you done to your bike? It seems with your powers you could have fun with a lot of things...
On kind of a side note, what other types of things like this have you done to your bike? It seems with your powers you could have fun with a lot of things...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Um... Someone tallied up my stock unmodified parts a while back... Apart from various bolts and such that I have re-used they found 3... Does that give you a clue?
As for electronics, I have a brake light modulator, charge indicator for keeping an eye on charge voltage, a fuel gauge (my bike is a 97, so it doesn't have that as stock)...
Also a LED tail/brakelight and most signals...
Click the image in my sig for the full list... Or check out the VTROM...
Does that give you a clue?As for electronics, I have a brake light modulator, charge indicator for keeping an eye on charge voltage, a fuel gauge (my bike is a 97, so it doesn't have that as stock)...
Also a LED tail/brakelight and most signals...
Click the image in my sig for the full list... Or check out the VTROM...
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Remember, I design stuff like this for a living...
These at-home projects are very, very basic to me... Only two layers, and huge freaking components with lots of space to hand-solder them...
My big fingers aren't as nimble as a pick and place machine...
BTW, a backside shot, just for you Jamie... The rest of you have to keep your eyes closed... (Who am I kidding, I'm just playing with the 3D...)
These at-home projects are very, very basic to me... Only two layers, and huge freaking components with lots of space to hand-solder them...
My big fingers aren't as nimble as a pick and place machine...
BTW, a backside shot, just for you Jamie... The rest of you have to keep your eyes closed... (Who am I kidding, I'm just playing with the 3D...)
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
How 'bout you tell me how many LED's of what color and how painfull to watch you want them to be and I'll stick them on a cable for you and solder the cable and resistor? Would that work?
