joshuatest

ok guy's...

I just remembered today that I never sent the ticket I was issued at my accident in...

Luckily for me, I have untill 7pm tomorrow to have it to the court house... It say's send, or bring in person by 7pm 5/6/08.... And I'm out of work at 6pm tomorrow, so i could make it there if thats when the actual traffic court is... If not, I can drop the ticket by before work tomorrow too...

ANYWAY...

QUESTIONS..

anybody got this ticket before?

"Failure to use designated lane"

Situation... I crashed the bike on 4-6-08 in Western NY... I was traveling down a two lane road with solid yellow lines (1 lane each direction). The road was very rural, and I was coming over the top of a second hill top, and the bike went into a headshake, and as a result, I ended up going down, and sliding off the road, and into a ditch.

The vehicle behind me vouched to the officer for my speed being appropriate, and the skid marks start in my lane. They do however at one point cross over the solid yellow line, then come back into my lane, and off the right side of the road. At the point just before my skid marks start, there are a couple small, but fresh pot holes from the shatty NY roads, and snow plows...

This was a single vehicle accident, only person observing the accident vouched for proper speed, and no property other than my own bike and body was damaged... But the officer still issued this ticket...

What would you do? Is this a low fine amount ticket? NY tickets don't include a $ amount on them, you mail them in pleading guilty, then they issue a fine, which is BS, because for $25-50 worth of fines, i would probably say go for it, and its worth not showing up... But anything higher than that, and thats BS... I have lost enough money in having to repair my own bike and body... Not to mention the fact that the reason's I went outside my lane where not exactly in my control... And to a certain degree, NY road conditions where not exactly helping the matter.

Do i just plead guilty or go to court? is it worth it?

what do you think?

RK1

If the only drawback to tickets were the fines, I'd just pay 'em and forget about 'em, but you get points on your record and the insurance goes up on every vehicle you own.


Sounds like a bullshit ticket to me, especially if the cop based it on skidmarks. Even if he based it on the witness saying you lost control in the other lane, seems to me you could take pictures of the pothole, argue that is what started the whole thing, and win with the judge.

Cops really have no business citing for infractions they didn't personally witness.

Condor

talk to the judge.

RickB

Fight it... plead not guilty and get pictures of the marks and pothole (wonderful roads we have here in WNY!)

Hotbrakes

Fight it! BS ticket, but the cop probably had to write something. Could have been worse I'm sure but the worst possible outcome now is that you have to pay anyway.

drew_c14

No way I would plead to that one. Bring pictures of the skid marks and pot holes, I know you already have them.

The traffic court is not tomorrow night, not likely anyway. But you will have to go in to plea not guilty.

NY traffic law title 9 article 45:

§ 1806. Plea of not guilty by a defendant charged with a traffic
infraction. In addition to appearing personally to enter a plea of not
guilty to a violation of any provision of the tax law or the
transportation law regulating traffic, or to a traffic infraction for
the violation of any of the provisions of the vehicle and traffic law or
of any local law, ordinance, order, rule or regulation relating to the
operation of motor vehicles or motor cycles, a defendant may enter a
plea of not guilty by mailing to the court of appropriate jurisdiction
the ticket making the charge and a signed statement indicating such
plea. Such plea must be sent: (a) by registered or certified mail,
return receipt requested or by first class mail; and (b) within
forty-eight hours after receiving such ticket. Upon receipt of such
ticket and statement, the court shall advise the violator of the trial
date by first class mail but no warrant of arrest for his failure to
appear can be issued until the violator is notified of a new trial date
by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, and he fails
to appear.

joshuatest

I think thats what I'll do... Since i happen to be off in time to be there... I'll stop and find out when the date is in the morning... This is one of those VERY small towns... So its very possible that the court will be held tomorrow, but who know's...

I have some pictures, but i think i'll have the wife go by and get some better pics that really show everything in one picture... but either way, i think i'll fight this one...

i will update you guy's tomorrow evening on the status

Condor

when the case is heard, the judge is going to ask you if you have any questions for the officer. hes not just going to let you stand up and say "i didnt do it because of this". if you do that, hes going to stop you and say, "thats great, but do you have any questions for the officer"
... if you have to, write a script. so many people that go to traffic court have valid reasons or points, but they are never heard because you have to present it in a more 'lawyerly' fashion. its all in the way you present it. find a copy of the code you supposedly violated, and form your case around the fact that the elements of the violation were not present. if you have witnesses, get them to come to court...if they dont want to come, subpoena them. your job is to defend yourself, and since IT DIDNT HAPPEN IN THE PRESENCE OF THE OFFICER, that should be relatively easy. for all he knows, the Mothership dropped you there (don't laugh, ive heard defense attorneys argue some pretty outrageous ****). he just showed up, shrugged his shoulders, and wrote a citation. just dont be one of those guys that says "im going ot fight this" and have a valid point, but fails to prepare the case correctly. then when the judge says "do you have any questions?" they just get flustered, say "no" and sit down. have a plan of action, and dont get flustered. sometimes you can even ask the judge what to do next or they will guide you along....but if you have a valid point, they are usually cool and will find in your favor. like i said....find out what the definition of your violation is and prove that the elements did not fit in your particular case. at least create doubt or propose an acceptable alternative sequence of events. PM me if you need anything, as i could prolly help you.

ill look some of that up for you if i can find the time tonight.

joshuatest

Thanks man...

I'm gonna spend some "google time" looking it up... I found some meanings, but not from NY State, so i'll see what I can dig up that is from NY...

From what I read online from another states meaning of that charge is basically anytime your leave you lane without proper signaling, and proper conditions... So basically, my driveway.. lol I live on the East side of the road, so if I'm traveling South, and want to pull in my driveway, I cross double yellow lines... And um.... from what i gather, that technically is this.. lol

I get the whole deal.. but at the same time, almost any lagit meaning for this ticket, would be careless driving or worse... somebody reached pretty deep to come up with this one...

joshuatest

So....

Got me thinking... The bike and myself ended up aprox 2/10th of a mile down the road from where this all started... When the medic and cops got there, they came to me and the bike, not to where the accident started...

So anyway... questions regarding if the officer took a walk to where the accident started or not would probably help right? I mean they didn't even bother to do anything but look up the road to see marks...

... or what about this..... I wasn't operating a motor vehicle in any other lanes... if anything, it was operating itself at that point, i was just holding on for the full 8 sec... lol (ok, not funny, but the officer not even walking the area is a valid point right?)

joshuatest

Not sure if it helps you, but the ticket say's....

In Violation Of - "NYS V AND T LAW"
Section Sub Section - "1128C"
Description of Violation - "Failed To use Designated Lane"

Tr Inf or Misd (traffic infraction is selected)

thats all i got..

joshuatest

ok.... finally figured out how to search this BS....

here is the site..

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi

and I was charged with 1128 C... so see "C" in this law

joshuatest

if anything, section D, not C would come into play i guess... Because I failed to signal when i was leaving my lane.. lol

no seriously though, it was a double solid line, no passing... so that would be the line i am not allowed to cross.... but i crossed it after loosing control, which is arguably due to shaty road conditions..

I really hope court is tomorrow, i hate waiting on this stupid shht

Death Cattle

id go straight to damn court and tell the judge its bullshit. thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard.

joshuatest

gotta keep my pimp hand strong.. lol

seriously though, i looked it up online, and the site say's traffic court is heard every Tuesday at 7pm, so i'm really hoping i can get this over with tomorrow... I'm taking pictures with me

Death Cattle

haha, damn right! pictures is definitely a good idea. the more proof the better. maybe fake a little limp or something and shed a tear or two during the hearing. haha.

joshuatest

My left leg still isn't up to speed, so my normal walk right now is very slow... after a solid month, I still can not get my left leg moving as fast as the right.. plus my hand is no longer bandaged, but you can still see where all the skin is growing back, so that should help right ... lol

LineArrayNut

i was worse than you. i came over a hill at 60 in a 45. something i did every day coming home from a third shift job. my '86 FZ600 handled better than anything i've ever ridden - first day scraping pegs. based on a 400 japan spec bike with a dog air cooled 2 valve motor, it inspired confidence like nothing i've ever ridden. so... the two cars at a stop sign at the right hand street waited for the van in front of me to go through the intersection that i had right of way. the van in front of me braked and let off. the car on the right, seeing the van pass and NOT my motorcycle, whipped a full throttle left. i stabbed the brakes, narrowly missing the left turn bandit. after i had let off the COP CAR pulled a lazy right, evidently thinking the intersection was clear. i hammered the brakes, locked up, seeing i would not slow down fast enough, i let off and grabbed throttle to pass the fugger. at which point he slammed the brakes on. i totaled the bike on the back of a cop car, flip over the trunk, roof, hood, and fall in the road in front of the a$$hole. thankfully, he stayed on the binders. as i pick myself up, walk past the sleepy eyed, obese, and mouth breathing donut hugger, i notice that that he's putting away a flask. i hammer on the windshield, screaming for his a$$ to get out of the car. needless to say, soon many cars and a sergeant show up. the judge says "230 ft. of skid marks - guilty". the copied accident report showed a whited out smudge of the pig's BAC. not .00% like mine, a smudge. when i asked the dekalb county georgia cops for the original, they refused. cops lie to protect their own. city hall will win . condor is a rare gem amongst many bad apples. i was lucky to get a "too fast for conditions" hosing. maybe you'll be better. fight it.

RK1

Note to self;

More practice maximum braking/stopping without leaving skid marks.

Condor

especially if a piece of litter rolls past you while youre dressed like an indian.





ask if the officer has accident reconstrution training. then ask him what his decision to write you a citation was based off of. i have always thought it was a ***** move to cite a single vehicle accident when no alcohol or drugs or negligence was involved. i men, the person has enough to worry about (financially mostly) at that point, so why add insult to injury? (literally in your case) im not a traffic cop, im a dope cop. i have never really understood the traffic **** mentality, so im at a loss there. anyway, can you give me a summary of the events leading up to you going down and what the code section entails? did the officer take pictures of the scene? what is he basing his assumption off of? if the bike was ghostriding without you, you can argue that you were not in control of the vehicle. theres a million ways to handle this, man. did the officer seem inept or did he seem to be fairly competent? did he take measurements? if you can prove that he did not do his job fully, you can create doubt and make it look like he arrived at a conclusion through specious conjecture...then youre good to go. like i said, just give me a brief summary, and ill try to help you as much as i can, as this does sound like some bull poo.

if the pothole started it and you got some head shake, as him if he is familiar with the physics of it. state that you were not "in control", as it causes you to lose control of the bike. most moving violations implicitly require you to be "in control" of the motor vehicle. you do it knowingly and willingly. if you were not "in control" of the vehicle, you had no choice to do what you did, and you were just along for the ride. like i said, theres a million ways to handle it. as i was talking about before, if he has accident construction training, and he physically took measurements, he can determine your speed to a fairly accurate level. if he did not do any of this, he is guessing, and guessing is a bullshit way to charge someone. go take measrements and compare yours to his if you ask hm about it. if the disparity is large, the numbers will be a point of concern. you get where im going with this? if you have witnesses that can attest to the fact that you werent acting like a douche nozzle in traffic, i dont see how it could stand. if he lies, call him on it.

another good question to ask the officer is is "is it possible that....?" do this to lead the judge. the officer will have to admit it is possible. especially if it is probable. if he says "no, thats not possible" judges look down on that and think "youre an idiot", because, of course, anything is possible. if theres a high chance that your alternative sequence of events is very probable alternate scenario, this is what youre trying to prove. it discredits the officers account of things. you were there. he was not. this is how it went down. i can see how the officer could have seen it this way, but this is what really happened. its all in the details.

another thing...when you do this, talk like you normally talk. nothing pisses a judge off more than when a person addresses them in the manner of their favorite character on law and order. youre not a lawyer, youre just a regular guy with a legitimate case to make. be confident. this helps a lot, because the judge can clearly see that. i could talk your ear off about this, but ill leave you to it. let me know if you need any help man. traffic ***** suck.

LineArrayNut

lol (now) i measured 43 ft the next morning w/ a camera. but they were 'experts', ya' know? man, i liked that bike. the first brand new one i had ever bought and it lasted 4 months: rip little yammie

joshuatest

Condor... thanks man...

The officer did not walk the full accident scene, he did not measure, he did do the recreation thing on the computer in his car, but with no measurements, just basic one vehicle, this way type of thing...

The skid marks where not that long at all... infact probably helping my case on how I could have gone that far down the road before coming to a stop... There is a few pot holes, then not much later, a light headshake mark (S type deal), then a solid skid of my back tire taking me out of my lane slightly, but them back in, then no mark, then one more, then crash...

Basically the bike went into headshake, I lost control, attempted the only two things I've ever known that could bring you out of one, decrease speed drastically with back brake, when that didn't work, I gave it gas to power through it... So I was attempting to regain control of the bike, then finally went down...

When the officer showed up, they asked me 5 gazzillion times if i was drinking, or on drugs... then told me once in the car writing me a ticket that when he recieved the call, they said possible alcohol involved.... and he also asked me how fast I was going 4 gazzillion times... apparently because I'm on a "sport" bike, I've gotta be speeding, and since I crashed, i've gotta be drunk or high...


I've got my pictures on a memory card to print at Walmart today.. So i'll let you guy's know later... I am really hoping this goes away.

pigwings