killer5280

Hey, that's the New World Order theme song.

"Imagine no possessions...."

Personally, I can't get too excited over the burning of a symbol.

Furrybiker

I feel about this much as you do, we are not alone, the police on the ground feel the same way but are doing as they are told by their bosses, who are doing as they are told by the politicians. See POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG to see how the policeman on the street feels.

The politicians are too scared to upset anyone who may accuse them of racism, islamophobia, heavy handedness. The times may be about to change as they catch on to the number of people who, of whatever race, colour or creed have had enough.

I think the burning of a flag is childish, but what got me was them making a noise through the commemoration service. If we lived under the laws that these people think they want to see in the UK they wouldnt have lived to go home.

PUSHrod

The other quote that I treasure is:

"Religion is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Perhaps someone here can correctly provide an attribution. . .

Wicky

The UK protests seem on a par with the repugnant Phelps family demonstrations where the US police allow them free speech. And considering your right to carry arms I'm amazed no one has replied with a pot shot or three at the Phelps clan...

BBC News - Louis Theroux: Westboro Baptist Church revisited

Old Yeller

they are candidates for selective elimination too!

killer5280

I can just smell the love of freedom in posts that advocate the illegal state murder of those who espouse unpopular ideas.

killer5280

Police don't "allow" the Phelps free speech. It is a natural right enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Ostensibly, police have no authority whatsoever to interfere with the Phelps's right to free speech, but it doesn't really work that way in practice in these days when people blithely accept government use of (often deadly) force against anyone and anything they don't like much.
The state and the overuse of nearly unlimited state force worry me far more than Muslims or Christians or Jews or whoever spouting off unpopular thoughts or burning flags.

Wicky

If the police weren't at the Phelps demonstrations then how long before their natural right's were prematurely curtailed by mob action?

N.B at the UK demonstration there were other groups there inc the far-right English Defence League and moderate Islamists.

autoteach

well, the holy wars probably are a good example of "airplane into a building". Honestly, its a flag, they didnt burn us. As for their actions, if no one came out to watch, no one listened, their movement would lose reason and hope. dont give them the time of day, and dont bother to try and change their mind.

inderocker

I don't care too much about the Radical protesters of the flag burning for that matter... good for them for expressing their rights (if that right actually exist's in the U.K.?)... no mater how terrible their message is.

The removal of the quite peaceful mourners is what gets me... so frustrating. So this is what a police force is like without guns?

Big Shepp

I'd love to give them something to really get pissed about. How about we organize a rally to burn all the flags of every major Islamic nation? I'll host here in the good ol' state of Oklahoma. "Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11."

superhawk22

Sorry but in my opinion blind hatered and bigotry is ugly no matter who is spewing it! To me a religeous fanatic is just that, no matter what country, religion or race they believe is superior. Much like autoteach said the best way to hadle an act like this is to say who gives a rats *** and walk away from the attention seeking immature losers. I have a prime example of a great "Christian" leader who unfortunately lives in my town, pastor Terry Jones. This "holy man" felt he was more than justified to burn someone elses "good book" just goes to show there are scumbags everywhere in all colors and religions.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...-florida_N.htm

Old Yeller

I can just smell the patriotism and love for a country that provides such a wealth of opportunity to let others disgrace it.

autoteach

It is the love of destroying and controlling other countries that has led to the disgrace of ours. Allowing them the opportunity to do so is merely a pleasantry to, "Hey, we just bombed your sh&%." Maybe they wouldn't burn our flags if we didnt **** down their throats.

killer5280

See autoteach's post. State worship is for command and control, authoritarian regimes. Not for ostensibly free states. The 1st amendment exists to protect unpopular speech and to protect the people as individuals from state overreach.
Of course, in England there is no such thing as the 1st amendment.

Old Yeller

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I will always defend the flag that drapes the coffins of the men and women who died for the freedoms you stand on, and oppose those that disrespect it. You want to hold up signs and protest in front of the white house, be my guest, but when it comes to burning the flag and disrepecting dead soldiers, I just draw the line there.

klx678

the U.S. constitution doens't draw the line there. It is considered a sign of freedom to have the right to burn the flag if one feels that is a means of protest. Would you rather they start taking pot shots as has been advocated here by some? It is all about a free state. Many are the first to complain about the government "take over" when helmet laws or such are presented, but heaven forbid the freedom of expression (burning the flag) is performed. If the government got far enough out of control this certainly would be a form of expression by many.

Be offended, that is absolutely patriotic. But realize it is part of the cost of being in a country with the freedoms given by our Constitution. If you want to talk a "slippery slope" you should start with any law or amendment that bans any sort of nonviolent expression for or against the government. Not to mention laws and admendments that start forcing religious beliefs of any sort. My beliefs and faith do NOT eminate from the government and I will back every effort to keep them from being done so. Faith and religion come from the churches, synagogs, etc. Not from government and politics. That sort of rule comes in dictatorships and the like. Freedom does not just apply to WASPs or fundamentalists.

raceruss2003

For me, I may not always like who is in office, or every new law that is signed into order. I can change all that through voting. However, I will never burn the flag my grandfathers fought under, and taught me to respect. The USA flag stands for our nation and the people who live here now and in the past. All the people who gave their all to uphold our nation, and those who gave it the character is has today. Anyone who burns the flag, should be arrested and treated like an enemy of the state...as that is just what they are.

I find it funny that people who are mad at the government find sympathy for the Muslims who attack us. They are not on your side, they will kill you because you were born under the red, white, and blue. It is a fact... wake up and get on our team, or get out.

If the $hit ever does hit the fan on our soil, I know my 5.56 will not protect you, and neither will theirs.

klx678

So what do you think about people who want to break away from the US? If the flag is so sacred, what about the country itself?

And what do you think Jefferson, Franklin, and company would think of a government that promotes freedom, but squelches freedom of political expression? And yes, flag burning is political expression in those cases. Especially after they did essentially that very thing to Britain.

I never said I was sympathetic, but isn't your comment about getting on board or get out pretty much a facist point of view? I thought it was about freedom, not conformity. What's next? If I'm not a fundamentalist Baptist I should get out? If I'm not a blue eyed blond (which I was as a child) I should get out? It's one thing to defend against terrorists, it's another when you want to purge the country of anyone who doesn't agree with you, yet values freedom. Believe it or not, there are a lot of Muslims here who feel that way, not to mention Hindi, probably Buddist, and about every religion you can think of.

Honestly I'm more concerned with unregulated capitalism ruining our country and way of life than terrorists. Seems they pretty well screwed the pooch about 4 years ago. Heck my own state's governor was right in there humping away while working for Lehman Brothers. He made his stash while the public retirement systems lost big time after investing with Lehman. He made more in one year than any teacher in the state made in their first ten and maybe first fifteen or more years of teaching. That is scary, those with a lot taking more and more away from those with little. The gap gets wider. The more I make the less it is worth.

Old Yeller

I don't see it as squelching freedom of political expression at all. Anyone in the country is free to protest the government all they want. They are free to run for political office on whatever agenda they choose.

Perhaps we should institute Robin Hood laws so that we can take money from those who worked hard to make it and give it to those who sit around with their hand out.

You're all over the board. You want political freedom to burn the flag, but you want to punish and take away from the rich who worked to earn it, and you don't want the freedom of a capitalist society where any person who wants to work hard and has a great idea can have their dreams come true.

Tweety

Well, considering that the burning of the flag that originated this discussion took place in the UK, the whole legal argument is actually pretty ridiculous... Both sides...

Unless you have the US declare war on the UK and take over, US law doesn't apply... Ie it doesn't matter what you guys think should or should not be legal or illegal... UK laws apply, not US...

This was just to put this discussion back into perspective, since a whole bunch of you seem to forget the fact that US laws only applies in the US...

Now, I don't like flags being burned in general, but my alligience would be more towards the Swedish flag than the US flag... However, the way I see it, burning a flag is a political protest, it's not a crime, regardless of what flag... I dislike it, but it's the backside of the coin that gives you the right to have an opinion and expressing it...

Wicky

Ignoring the symbolic element of burning a flag...

Though if today I set ablaze some fabric on the pavement outside the town hall I would expect at most to be in breach of the peace.

Interestingly Why US government could not have stopped the Koran bonfire

BBC News - Why US government could not have stopped the Koran bonfire

Old Yeller

Most surely true Tweety, and I was talking in generalities, not this specific instance. No reason for the US to go to war with the UK. We already did that once.