1997 REVIEW OF A VTR BY R1100GS PILOTS
VERY FUNNY STUFF

First, one other BMWfile's opinion of the then new R11GS

Along with the grey import Honda 650 Hawk , the R1100GS is the most underrated bike you can buy. Thirteen years of dreary K-Series plodders and grown-up advertising have created the impression that BMWs are about as much fun as eating your greens.

Not the new twins, and definitely not the GS. It does all the speed, handling

and comfort things the other bikes here do, differently. It's so big, traffic

moves over for you on motorways. There's so much room for both of you it's

comfier than a car. The wacky suspension means you never, ever have to slow down over bumps. Try that on your GSX-R and you'll die.

Now a fast 47 year GS guy who is an old lady. His complaints are primarily the "big 3"; i.e., small tank-poor gas mileage, "crotch rocket" ergos and poor saddle. But this from a guy who thinks 100 HP is too much for "public roads" and thinks the VTR's suspension is too STIFF! On one hand he says VTR's handling was truckish and on the other was light years ahead???

From ibmwrNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com Thu Jun 19 23:26:55 1997

From: "John Mulvihill" <mulvijNoSpam@NoSpampacbell.net>

To: "BMW Internet Riders" <bmwmcNoSpam@NoSpamworld.std.com>

Cc: "Roozbeh Chubak" <roozbehNoSpam@NoSpamwco.com>,

"BMW GS Mailing List" <BMW-GSNoSpam@NoSpammicapeak.com>, <asmialekNoSpam@NoSpamSEVA.net>

Subject: BMW: R1100GS vs. Honda VTR1000 SuperHawk (long)

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:02:27 -0700

Reply-To: "John Mulvihill" <mulvijNoSpam@NoSpampacbell.net>

To see if a crotch rocket's lay-down riding position could help my aching

back (see my post "Back pain, joint aches, HELP!"), I took a Honda VTR1000

Super Hawk for an extended test ride today on one of my favorite twisty

roads. It made a fascinating contrast to my 1995 R1100GS.


Actually, just getting a test ride on one of these hot-selling Super Hawks

was an accomplishment. Many dealers have already sold their year's

allottments, and those who have stock are refusing even a spin around the

block. It's a seller's market for Super Hawks since the riding mags gave it

the nod as the "street-oriented sport V-twin of choice" over the Suzuki TL

and even the Ducati 900. The latest Cycle World named the Super Hawk their

top open-class sportbike of the year, in ANY category.


For giving me a test ride on his personal machine, I thank the owner of

newly-relocated Concord Motor Sports (Bay Area). They have a fabulous

selection of Hondas, Suzukis and Ducatis, and a staff who really try to

accommodate you, even if you're interested in a model they can sell over

the phone. They're a big operation but, in my limited dealings with them so

far, I find them to be real motorcycle people and recommend them if you're

in the market for any of these brands.


Half a block into my test ride, I could understand the critics' enthusiasm

for the Super Hawk: This bike is one serious go-fast machine packaged in an

ingot-like chassis that exudes Honda's superlative engineering and build

quality. It feels like a late-model VFR with massive goat-gland injections.


The Super Hawks' riding position is considered mild by sportbike standards,

but after my touring-setup R11GS (with barbacks, Russell saddle and

Aeroflow screen) my 47-year-old frame found it demanding. Within a couple

of miles my wrists informed me they were not accustomed to supporting my

upper body, especially at a weird angle, and that they weren't about to

take it lying down. My hip joints protested their unnatural rotation, as

result of splayed legs and high pegs.


Look away from the screen for a moment and up at your ceiling. That's the

position my neck was forced into every minute of the test ride, unless I

wished to peruse the top of the too-small gas tank. (We're talking a

hundred-mile range here--in the Harley Sportster peanut-tank

category--thanks to the massive 48 mm carbs 30 mpg thirst.) From my

bicycling experience I know my neck would adjust, but I wasn't sure about

my hips.


While I adjusted to the realities of sport riding posture, we (they sent

along a young hot-shoe on a new GSXR 750 to chaperone me) made our way

through city traffic to the serpentine and bumpy Marsh Creek Road. Those

five miles of stoplights made me long for the wide bar and tall saddle of

my GS. But my discomfort was mollified by the Honda's incredible surge away

from the Living Dead in their Avalons. With more than 100 horspower pushing

440 pounds, and torque in the same league as my R1100GS (!), the Honda felt

like it could ride OVER the traffic ahead of us. And the power pulses of

the 90-degree V-twin are, I have to admit, far more sensual than the BMW

flat-twin's reassuring side-to-side massage. (I recently heard a Super Hawk

with Staintune pipes and it was the greatest basso profundo since E. Power

Biggs on his pipe organ.)


The twisties of Marsh Creek Road showed me how forbidding modern crotch

rockets are on bumpy secondaries, and yet how blazingly fast they can be if

you show them who's boss. After a couple of getting-acquainted miles, I

started increasing corner entrance speeds and exist blasts. To be frank,

the resulting experience left me more in awe of my GS than of the Honda.


While the Honda tracked true, it literally threw me off the seat reacting

to bumps my GS would shrug off, even with 48,000 miles on its stock shocks.

And while I could lever the tall GS into tight corners while cranked over

and hard on the brakes with only minor effort, I really had to yank on the

Honda's narrow clip-ons to get the leverage necessary to get the wide

Dunlop 204 radials to change direction.


There are few passing places on this road, but when we came up on traffic

the Honda easily powered around the largest obstacles, including

double-trailered dump trucks. It's the finest motor I've had the pleasure

of wicking open and shut.

My buddy on the GSXR was falling behind, so I waited till I saw him in my

mirrors before branching off to the Byron side road, with its undulating

hills and long sweepers. Then I took off again.



This time I sampled the Super Hawk's 80-mph-plus characteristics and found

it ultra-stable. But I was disconcerted by the laydown riding position.

After the GS, which is also rock-solid at speed, I felt my forward vision

compromised by the Super Hawk's closeness to the road (not reassuring at

speed on a country road with many entrances), and the bumps made the

tightly-suspended Honda feel dartier than the long-travel GS suspension.


The return journey impressed upon me how quickly the Super Hawk's learning

curve could be mastered. I could throw it into corners at serious

veolicities (e.g., 70 mph in a 30 mph-signed corner), and it gave the

impression there was great reserve capacity still unexplored. Still, the

word is getting out that a disproporionate number of new Super Hawk and

Suzuki TL riders are washing out their front ends and crashing big-time,

probably due to intoxication induced by seemingly unlimited entrance

speeds. As it turns out, there ARE limits. I hadn't found them yet, because

they are so far beyond the speeds at which a sane person would ride on

public roads.


My ride on the Super Hawk made me understand how easily Roozbeh Chubek and I can reel in most crotch rocket riders on our GSs, and at the same time,

how much serious trouble I could get myself into on a state-of-the art

sportbike. How to explain the contradiction? The GS is easier to ride fast

and handles the bumpy stuff far better. But the new Japanese sport twins'

tractable power and superior tires make their ultimate potential velocity

through the twisties much greater--IF the rider can master their various

demands.


I could see myself going very, very fast on a Super Hawk, but to what

purpose? A trip to the local hoosegow or emergency ward? There's no victory

podium in street racing, only a clammy realization at the next rest stop

that you've cheated the odds once again. There's also the exhileration that

comes from riding fast on top machinery, of course, but this ride showed me

that to explore the potential of today's sportbikes requires speeds that,

on public roads, invite catastrophe.


So as we navigated the city traffic back to the dealership, I concluded

that for a one-bike kinda guy who's not a member of the No Fear fraternity,

the Super Hawk isn't a realistic alternative to the R11GS. In every way

other than canyon carving on smooth roads, the GS is so superior it's

almost laughable. And even on the smooth stuff, I know I'll be able to reel

in 23 out of 25 Super Hawk riders on my GS.


Still, I'm strongly attracted to the Honda twin. There's that gorgeous

90-degree twin. With Staintunes it would feel like the hammer of Thor. And

an Eclipse Sport Bag set would enable me to do some touring. . .


So, contrary to logic, I haven't totally discarded the prospect of

acquiring a Super Hawk. For what it does, at the level I can do it (e.g.,

less than road-racer velocities), it's the best bike I could ask for. As

Honda's first effort in the 90-degree arena, it's a brilliant

accomplishment.


What I need is some context. Tomorrow I take out the Speed Triple, and who

knows what else. Stay tuned to see if there's something out there that can

coax me off my GS and back into all-out sport riding.


- John Mulvihill

 

I ridden that road many time and what he says is all true until you fix the stock suspension and you don't have to worry about those POS 204's anymore, then it's a whole different ball game.....

 

+1 and +5 on those POS Dunlop 204s which ended in a low-side that cost me dearly.

 

If he thinks the superhawk is harsh isn the suspension, he needs to eat more cookies... Dang it, it's to soft unless you are half midget...

And yeah, the stock tires wheren't even good when they where new... Now they are a laugh...

 

or maybe he's comparing on the basis of inches of travel which can translate into harshness for a sportbike when the roads gets rough. I don't know if he was on bumpy pavement but 8541 rode the road many times.

 

On that road with stock suspension, if you weighed over 140lbs the stock stuff would beat the crap out of you. Throw in the 204's they came with back then and it would have been an interesting ride.

Fix the suspension and put some good tires on there and it's a whole different story....

 

Okay, and if he was used to the GS with longer travel suspension, that might explain. That's why I like riding my xr650l over rough, gravel strewn roads that I generally try to avoid with the SH.