Latest OCMD project: modded airbox lid
10-12-2014, 11:01 AM
#241
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
You mentioned going down a size on your mains. I know our bikes are different, and we live in different areas, however when I was one size lower on the mains (190F/195R), the engine was very lean, to the point of cutting out. I had my fingers crossed going to the 198F/200R, because they (JetsRus) don't make anything bigger.
I was thinking, since you track your bike a lot, you would be a good candidate for ram air with the F.I.L. mod. People have had great results going to ram air. However, if you were to install ram air, you would be out of luck, since you would need larger mains.
Does anyone know if there are mains available bigger than 200?
I was thinking, since you track your bike a lot, you would be a good candidate for ram air with the F.I.L. mod. People have had great results going to ram air. However, if you were to install ram air, you would be out of luck, since you would need larger mains.
Does anyone know if there are mains available bigger than 200?
Problem with Ram air is getting it in there. No real room. But I found the airbox was quite warm so will take a look at that. But i am thinking of running the air ducts through the frame just under the air box and getting rid of the plastic thing that sits under the carbsto get more air about.
I also need to seal the radiators to the fairing as she was getting hot on the track.
10-22-2014, 12:10 PM
#242
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Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Next step. Have dropped to 198/195 mains and 45 idles. What I did notice was the plugs looking rich and at idle when I wound the fuel screws all the way in the motor ran fine. So way to rich on mains.
Ride today shows perfect top end and low end. But mid is surging. So need to shim the needles more. Only on 2mm currently. Just need to find some shims.
Out of interest those with needles that have clips, what is the length range of the clips?
Ride today shows perfect top end and low end. But mid is surging. So need to shim the needles more. Only on 2mm currently. Just need to find some shims.
Out of interest those with needles that have clips, what is the length range of the clips?
10-22-2014, 12:30 PM
#244
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10-22-2014, 12:51 PM
#245
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MotoGP
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Location: Montreal
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I have found that it's sometimes difficult to differentiate between a lean and rich condition (for me anyhow). The best way I have found to tell the two apart is that a lean mixture will cause surging at constant throttle, and a rich one will cause a momentary bog/loading up when rolling on the gas.... the fine art of jetting: sucks at times, but quite rewarding when you finally get it sorted 
10-24-2014, 01:20 AM
#246
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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I have found that it's sometimes difficult to differentiate between a lean and rich condition (for me anyhow). The best way I have found to tell the two apart is that a lean mixture will cause surging at constant throttle, and a rich one will cause a momentary bog/loading up when rolling on the gas.... the fine art of jetting: sucks at times, but quite rewarding when you finally get it sorted
And part throttle got real bad. So reversing that tomorrow. Am going to drop mains back at the same time.
10-25-2014, 09:24 PM
#247
über-n00b
Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
ok. I started to chop the airbox...then a couple friends came over and I de-railed again.
I am hoping to get this done asap.
As soon as the lid is done, I'll call for dyno time & tuning.
I'd like to get Mikstr, Crux & NZ's current setup as far as jets/mains/shims/turns out...etc.
I want to hand this to my tuner and say 'well, here is where the other guys are at...'
Was there something about HRC things?? then I need to remember sealing the hole in the slide...anything else??
I will try to see if I have the +4 advancer in bike...(need to look up where that is, too)
I am hoping to get this done asap.
As soon as the lid is done, I'll call for dyno time & tuning.
I'd like to get Mikstr, Crux & NZ's current setup as far as jets/mains/shims/turns out...etc.
I want to hand this to my tuner and say 'well, here is where the other guys are at...'
Was there something about HRC things?? then I need to remember sealing the hole in the slide...anything else??
I will try to see if I have the +4 advancer in bike...(need to look up where that is, too)
Last edited by Spoot; 10-25-2014 at 09:34 PM.
10-25-2014, 09:46 PM
#248
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Location: Montreal
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my set-up will be of little use to you as my engine is modded (ported heads, Stage 1 cams, Akrapovic full exhaust....), and my needles are from HRC (quite different from stock, DJ and FP)...... the others's set-ups should get you close, however..... good luck
10-26-2014, 07:13 AM
#250
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
Spoot, NZSpokes and I have stock engines. I posted my current setup in this thread somewhere. I'll come back and edit this post.
EDIT: Here's my current setup:
My current setup is:
Mains - (Keihin) 198F & 200R
Factory Pro Needles set at #4 (both carbs)
Pilots - (Keihin) 50
Fuel screws (turns out) 3.25F & 3.5R
Front & Rear slide has Dyno Jet springs and both only have one hole.
I also have Dr. Honda aluminum velocity stacks.
I am buying another airbox and K&N filter from a member here and will be doing the F.I.L. mod (just the lid) for someone who doesn't have the means or the time. If you would like to wait, I should have the airbox and K&N delivered and the F.I.L. mod done within two weeks. However looking back in this thread, I really like the XX K&N you would be using. If you end up using that K&N, we (all of us running the F.I.L. mod so far) would all be using a different design K&N filter.
EDIT: Here's my current setup:
My current setup is:
Mains - (Keihin) 198F & 200R
Factory Pro Needles set at #4 (both carbs)
Pilots - (Keihin) 50
Fuel screws (turns out) 3.25F & 3.5R
Front & Rear slide has Dyno Jet springs and both only have one hole.
I also have Dr. Honda aluminum velocity stacks.
I am buying another airbox and K&N filter from a member here and will be doing the F.I.L. mod (just the lid) for someone who doesn't have the means or the time. If you would like to wait, I should have the airbox and K&N delivered and the F.I.L. mod done within two weeks. However looking back in this thread, I really like the XX K&N you would be using. If you end up using that K&N, we (all of us running the F.I.L. mod so far) would all be using a different design K&N filter.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; 10-26-2014 at 07:51 AM.
10-26-2014, 11:44 AM
#251
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Ive been chasing my tail trying different setups only to make it worse. Going back to the below setup and leaving it at that. Works well.
Current set up is, 48 Idles. 2mm and 2.5mm shims and 198/200 mains. Stock needles.
I strongly believe its all in the needles where we have differences.
Current set up is, 48 Idles. 2mm and 2.5mm shims and 198/200 mains. Stock needles.
I strongly believe its all in the needles where we have differences.
10-26-2014, 01:55 PM
#252
über-n00b
Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
well, I believe I have the ugliest FIL mod yet.
Not sure how those other K&N's are designed, but mine had unequal thicknesses one side vs the other, and the lip surrounding was huge in some spots.
but, it is all sealed up and screwed down so it holds. fugly, I know.
Time to call for some dyno-tuning time!
Not sure how those other K&N's are designed, but mine had unequal thicknesses one side vs the other, and the lip surrounding was huge in some spots.
but, it is all sealed up and screwed down so it holds. fugly, I know.
Time to call for some dyno-tuning time!
11-02-2014, 02:50 PM
#253
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Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
uhg.
I need to do something different. I'd probably need 30mm raise in tank to make this work.
Scraping the plan for this year. Bike is prepped for storage.
I'll track down a VTR filter next year and see if I wrecked the lid I have...probably need another lid, too.
Sorry to disappoint. Just no time to tinker.
I need to do something different. I'd probably need 30mm raise in tank to make this work.
Scraping the plan for this year. Bike is prepped for storage.
I'll track down a VTR filter next year and see if I wrecked the lid I have...probably need another lid, too.
Sorry to disappoint. Just no time to tinker.
11-02-2014, 06:01 PM
#254
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
Since you are a forum member and a fellow Wisconsinite, I'll make the lid for ya. I was making it anyways for someone that wanted to do the F.I.L. mod to thier bike. If you want it, consider it yours man.
I just purchased a complete airbox and a K&N filter for a Superhawk. I do good work. It will look like it was done from the factory from the outside.
I just purchased a complete airbox and a K&N filter for a Superhawk. I do good work. It will look like it was done from the factory from the outside.
11-03-2014, 07:30 PM
#255
über-n00b
Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S. WI
Posts: 257
seriously??
That'd be awesome. AND very kind of you.
If this works out, I will have a SH K&N (currently running it) and 2 lids to give back (current OE & my hacked one).
Id even buy you some Ice Cream for your hard work!
Maybe I'll hold off a bit on putting the trailer in storage ...?
That'd be awesome. AND very kind of you.
If this works out, I will have a SH K&N (currently running it) and 2 lids to give back (current OE & my hacked one).
Id even buy you some Ice Cream for your hard work!
Maybe I'll hold off a bit on putting the trailer in storage ...?
11-08-2014, 12:00 AM
#256
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
So today my Girl and I did a ride to a place called Mungawai. Really nice spot and the longest we have ridden two up.
Bike has strong power everywhere and is very smooth. Even got 125 miles out of a tank before the light came on.
Perfect mod.
Bike has strong power everywhere and is very smooth. Even got 125 miles out of a tank before the light came on.
Perfect mod.
11-08-2014, 06:57 AM
#257
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
I just switched to 48's, but haven't riden the bike yet. Why did I change from 50's? It was very hard to tune in. Throttle was great and crisp, but I knew there was still a little room for improvement. My issue was, I could turn the fuel screws from 3/4 turn out, to all the way out (~3.5 turns out) and there was very little change. I didn't know which way to go, larger or smaller pilots. On a hunch, I decided to go smaller.
Not sure when I will find out if the 48's work better. It's been below freezing here now and snow is expected, for which the city will most likely salt the roads. My bike might have its mirrors taken off, rolled into the basement and torn completely down (doing A LOT of cosmetic stuff to the bike this winter).
Not sure when I will find out if the 48's work better. It's been below freezing here now and snow is expected, for which the city will most likely salt the roads. My bike might have its mirrors taken off, rolled into the basement and torn completely down (doing A LOT of cosmetic stuff to the bike this winter).
11-08-2014, 10:00 AM
#258
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
I just switched to 48's, but haven't riden the bike yet. Why did I change from 50's? It was very hard to tune in. Throttle was great and crisp, but I knew there was still a little room for improvement. My issue was, I could turn the fuel screws from 3/4 turn out, to all the way out (~3.5 turns out) and there was very little change. I didn't know which way to go, larger or smaller pilots. On a hunch, I decided to go smaller.
Not sure when I will find out if the 48's work better. It's been below freezing here now and snow is expected, for which the city will most likely salt the roads. My bike might have its mirrors taken off, rolled into the basement and torn completely down (doing A LOT of cosmetic stuff to the bike this winter).
Not sure when I will find out if the 48's work better. It's been below freezing here now and snow is expected, for which the city will most likely salt the roads. My bike might have its mirrors taken off, rolled into the basement and torn completely down (doing A LOT of cosmetic stuff to the bike this winter).
11-18-2014, 09:26 AM
#261
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Ive noticed a flaw in my fueling. Only came to light on the track. Holding a constant throttle at 5k rpm Im getting a surging. I will plug chop it today to see if its lean or rich but suspect its a lean condition. A smidge more throttle and she pulls like a train.
It runs great everywhere else. Im starting to think the slides are not lifting quick enough. I may drill out the plugged holes in the slides but will start with smaller holes.
It runs great everywhere else. Im starting to think the slides are not lifting quick enough. I may drill out the plugged holes in the slides but will start with smaller holes.
11-18-2014, 10:30 AM
#262
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MotoGP
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Location: Montreal
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size of slide holes has practically zero effect at constant throttle (since the system is in equilibrium), what it does affect is the speed at which the slides react to a change in vacuum (ie. caused by throttle movement). Surging is typically caused by a lean condition, so you likely have to raise your needles slightly.....
11-18-2014, 11:11 AM
#263
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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size of slide holes has practically zero effect at constant throttle (since the system is in equilibrium), what it does affect is the speed at which the slides react to a change in vacuum (ie. caused by throttle movement). Surging is typically caused by a lean condition, so you likely have to raise your needles slightly.....
Interestingly I just plug chopped it and it reads as being rich. Base circle is black and sotty. Maybe a drop in idle jet size?
11-18-2014, 11:27 AM
#264
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SuperSport
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Re-reading the plug with a magnifying glass. Does show as being lean in the mid and still rich up top.
So will lift the needles and drop main size on the front at least. will pull the rear plug on my next break.
So will lift the needles and drop main size on the front at least. will pull the rear plug on my next break.
11-19-2014, 10:58 AM
#265
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Last night I put 1mm shim under each needle, dropped to 45 idles and 195/198 mains.
That fixed the surge on constant throttle. But what I have noticed is a huge difference in front to rear fuel screw adjustment. 45 seems good for the rear at 2.75 turns out but the front is 1/2 turn out and still not making much difference. Think I will drop it to a 40 idle on the front.
That fixed the surge on constant throttle. But what I have noticed is a huge difference in front to rear fuel screw adjustment. 45 seems good for the rear at 2.75 turns out but the front is 1/2 turn out and still not making much difference. Think I will drop it to a 40 idle on the front.
01-03-2015, 01:45 AM
#267
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Done more with this now. Just went 210 mains with 40/35 idles and 2.5mm shim. Much more power but still small surge in the high rpm range with part throttle. Got better with more shim.
Going to try 220s tomorrow.
Going to try 220s tomorrow.
01-03-2015, 10:50 AM
#268
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
Thanks for doing all this testing and posting the results. If there wasn't snow and it wasn't below freezing, I'd be right there with ya, still trying to find the "sweet spot" for the F.I.L. mod. It's going to be another 4-5 months yet before I can get back out there.
01-03-2015, 01:03 PM
#269
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SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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I decided just to try another 1mm of shim under each needle. Going for a long ride soon. Have to drink heaps as it is very hot here.
01-03-2015, 07:18 PM
#270
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SuperSport
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Location: Auckland, new Zealand
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Extra 1mm shim has helped a lot. Thing is almost scary to ride. Did just under 300ks.
Think I will come up a little on idle jet but thats about it.
I wlll try 220s after my next track day.
Think I will come up a little on idle jet but thats about it.
I wlll try 220s after my next track day.
