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Tweety and others.. EarthX battery's
Tweety, and others ... have you seen a new'ish player on the Lithium battery market?
Earthx Our Batteries | EarthX Motorsports Claims of a built in BMS are interesting @ 140 + to build my own 6 cells ( I buy piece meal, not cells in quantity) Im looking at other options. thoughts? |
They are really emphasizing the need for a BMS. A nice feature, but not necessary if you don't abuse the battery. Wonder whose cells are inside.
After looking at the prices, you'd be hard pressed to build one at that price. I take that back. $219+shipping is up there. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by xeris
(Post 370883)
They are really emphasizing the need for a BMS. A nice feature, but not necessary if you don't abuse the battery. Wonder whose cells are inside.
After looking at the prices, you'd be hard pressed to build one at that price. I take that back. $219+shipping is up there. But who will say having a BMS is not desirable? When the buy in is $$$$$ for a BMS, we say its not "Needed" but if the BMS was scaled down to having only to manage a specific battery type, size, capacity and the cost scaled back as well.. if it was included in the battery assembly for just a few dollars above a like battery without BMS.. I find that quite except able . as for whose cells? Good question, for sure not A123 https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...1&d=1396712928 |
I'm in total agreement with you. A BMS is a worth while feature for the health of an expensive part.
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My question would be what the specs on the BMS are? Since they give no details what-so-ever, I'd say it's not likely to be very sophisticated...
Over/under charge protection and short circuit is most likely just achieved by a diode clamp... About as sophisticated as a 1700 century broadsword... And if they are in fact balancing internally, it's most likely just a small charge controller switching the clamps on and off... Which means it's almost 100% certain to be parts meant for a LiPo RC battery re purposed for this... Bottom line, I'd pass... I can build a better BMS myself, for less money than this... But, 5 years and counting without one, I just wouldn't bother... |
Originally Posted by Tweety
(Post 370919)
My question would be what the specs on the BMS are? Since they give no details what-so-ever, I'd say it's not likely to be very sophisticated...
Over/under charge protection and short circuit is most likely just achieved by a diode clamp... About as sophisticated as a 1700 century broadsword... And if they are in fact balancing internally, it's most likely just a small charge controller switching the clamps on and off... Which means it's almost 100% certain to be parts meant for a LiPo RC battery re purposed for this... Bottom line, I'd pass... I can build a better BMS myself, for less money than this... But, 5 years and counting without one, I just wouldn't bother... I had my doubts they could have fiscally managed a fully function BMS into each battery.. but know when things are scratched designed with limited purpose, modern tech, ect many times what is much $$ as a stand alone item can be incorporated into an assembly at a fraction of the cost.. so was hopeful. That big ??? along with the cells they are using (a big unknown with lots of marketing words and no great tech / specs provided... mostly just ours are better then theirs,, trust us,, crap) and highish price ... I'll stick with building my own and winging it for now. But damn $22 per cell with shipping... and Im at $132 for just cells on a 6 cell battery. Wish i could buy in bulk,,,, but just not ready to drop that much $$$$ |
Originally Posted by E.Marquez
(Post 370925)
But damn $22 per cell with shipping... and Im at $132 for just cells on a 6 cell battery. Wish i could buy in bulk,,,, but just not ready to drop that much $$$$ To better my understanding of this subject, what configuration are you planning using with six cells? 3s2p? I can't get the charge voltage to be proper with that arrangement. You'd think that after a year or so of reading about this I'd know, but don't. |
LiPo Group Buy
I've been on the fence to BMO and cell cost was an issue. Why don't we do a group buy and see how low we can get the unit cost down?
BTW, with my accessories, I think I need want an 8 cell pack; 6 cells seems marginal based on what Markus has said. What cell mfgr would be the most appropriate cost vs performance, and are there buss bars of proper gauge and size readily available? |
Originally Posted by skokievtr
(Post 370933)
I've been on the fence to BMO and cell cost was an issue. Why don't we do a group buy and see how low we can get the unit cost down?
BTW, with my accessories, I think I need want an 8 cell pack; 6 cells seems marginal based on what Markus has said. What cell mfgr would be the most appropriate cost vs performance, and are there buss bars of proper gauge and size readily available? Not sure I would take a chance on these but they are inexpensive. Sony Lithium 26650 Li ion 3 7V 50A 2600mAh US26650VT High Drain EV Battery Cell | eBay |
Terminal oxidation due to moist environment in shipping, full capacity without cycling, etc... you may get what you pay for. However, they interestingly offer without note on gauge/size of buss bars
Welding Service We offer free-charge Welding Service! You may send message to us if you need solder the tabs or Series / Parallel - Connected spot welding. Its better if you could send us a drawing or picture by mail.
Originally Posted by xeris
(Post 370935)
Can't seem to find my bookmark for them, but there are buss bars that would be sized for the app we're using the cells for.
Not sure I would take a chance on these but they are inexpensive. Sony Lithium 26650 Li ion 3 7V 50A 2600mAh US26650VT High Drain EV Battery Cell | eBay |
Actually, since a few guys in the UK wanted packs, and shipping and so on proved to be stupidly expensive, I talked to one of the sellers that I have purchased small quantities from, since he was already selling packs, I offered a few pointers on his designs, which he implemented...
The end result, I got two packs for evaluation, and while they are a bit less over engineered than my packs, they are made with bus bars that are quite adequate, have correct configuration, and come with a quick disconnect... And since they are factory new cells (all i have purchased from this seller checks out), and put in a self-balancing configuration, if used with a reasonable amount of care, they should last a very long time... Bottom line, I'm comfortable recommending them... Could be an alternative to making you own, for a decent price... 8 Cell A123 Motorcycle Start Battery 13 2V4 6AH 12V New with Quick Disconnect | eBay |
Originally Posted by Tweety
(Post 370959)
Actually, since a few guys in the UK wanted packs, and shipping and so on proved to be stupidly expensive, I talked to one of the sellers that I have purchased small quantities from, since he was already selling packs, I offered a few pointers on his designs, which he implemented...
The end result, I got two packs for evaluation, and while they are a bit less over engineered than my packs, they are made with bus bars that are quite adequate, have correct configuration, and come with a quick disconnect... And since they are factory new cells (all i have purchased from this seller checks out), and put in a self-balancing configuration, if used with a reasonable amount of care, they should last a very long time... Bottom line, I'm comfortable recommending them... Could be an alternative to making you own, for a decent price... 8 Cell A123 Motorcycle Start Battery 13 2V4 6AH 12V New with Quick Disconnect | eBay @ $138 shipped, that's cheaper then I can get 8 cells for, never mind my cabling, buss bar making, hunk of shrink wrap and my time. |
Very interesting to see more people making their on battery's
my friends are all a bit scared of lithium and are swearing by their lead brick of a heavy POS battery, and there like yeah what if it explodes etc. etc. First off all i ride R/C cars for 10 years now and ive been riding with Lipo's for 4 years and none of my batterys ever exploded and thats not even Lifepo4's wich are even more safe. I made a 8 cell pack off these, and with battery bars it was about 105 dollar i believe A123-3.3V Lithium Ion 2500mAh Single Cell Battery those tabs wich or on there are for the balancing leeds but can be removed very easy and for 4 cilinder 600 & 750 bikes ( I use it for me GSXR 750) these are good and half the price of the A123 maybe with a good R/R this also works on the Hawk (i am gonna test it when i get my R/R) Turnigy 4500mAh 2S2P 30C LiFePo4 Pack some nice options i think |
Markus,
Having reached the half century + 10 mark, my long term memory has joined my short term somewhere between the bed and the bathroom every day at 5 AM, so please reiterate what your definition or prescription for what "a reasonable amount of care" should be. Also, for a lot of accessories (i.e., heated vest, glove/grips, driving lights, etc), would a 10 or even 12 cell unit be better/possible; and do you think this vendor would make one? BTW, you ignored my last inquiry in another thread as to the reconstruction status of the homestead is and SWMBO's procreation demands (she's not getting any younger as she must remind you weekly at least)? Was your recent winter as bad as ours?
Originally Posted by Tweety
(Post 370959)
Actually, since a few guys in the UK wanted packs, and shipping and so on proved to be stupidly expensive, I talked to one of the sellers that I have purchased small quantities from, since he was already selling packs, I offered a few pointers on his designs, which he implemented...
The end result, I got two packs for evaluation, and while they are a bit less over engineered than my packs, they are made with bus bars that are quite adequate, have correct configuration, and come with a quick disconnect... And since they are factory new cells (all i have purchased from this seller checks out), and put in a self-balancing configuration, if used with a reasonable amount of care, they should last a very long time... Bottom line, I'm comfortable recommending them... Could be an alternative to making you own, for a decent price... 8 Cell A123 Motorcycle Start Battery 13 2V4 6AH 12V New with Quick Disconnect | eBay |
Originally Posted by RoadManiac
(Post 370966)
Very interesting to see more people making their on battery's
my friends are all a bit scared of lithium and are swearing by their lead brick of a heavy POS battery, and there like yeah what if it explodes etc. etc. someone is very confused or just not up to speed and the battery type being discussed (not you RoadManiac, your friends) |
Originally Posted by E.Marquez
(Post 370982)
Suggest your friends research LiFePO4 and learn why they are different then the LiPoly cells of RC car fame.
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What about these batteries?
Batteries - Ballistic Performance Components Bit pricey on their site but I have seen these elsewhere for a lot cheaper. |
Originally Posted by E.Marquez
(Post 370982)
Suggest your friends research LiFePO4 and learn why they are different then the LiPoly cells of RC car fame.
someone is very confused or just not up to speed and the battery type being discussed (not you RoadManiac, your friends) as for the BMS featured on the Earthx batterys... in my eyes it just BS i NEVER had any BMS on my RC battery's and i still run cheap turnigy lipo's that are 4 years old and they still work only not at optimal level, wich makes me hard to believe that the earthx battery's last 8000 cycles or 8 years. |
I wonder what gauge wire is used as it is not stated in the specs. Here are some buss bars. Battery Bars for Sub-C Cells (10pcs) According to info posted by Tweety in an another battery thread these are a little light. Should be more like 1mmx10mmxlength to span past center on a 26650 cell. They are close though and at 29.7 they should be long enough. I made some from copper sheet that is .04in (about 1mm) thick and cut them .4in (10mm) wide. Was going to make a test pack (4s2p) with some 18650 cells I robbed from a dewalt 20v pack. But have since thought it is not such a good idea and shelved the project until I can justify some 26650 cells |
Originally Posted by RoadManiac
(Post 370966)
Very interesting to see more people making their on battery's
my friends are all a bit scared of lithium and are swearing by their lead brick of a heavy POS battery, and there like yeah what if it explodes etc. etc. First off all i ride R/C cars for 10 years now and ive been riding with Lipo's for 4 years and none of my batterys ever exploded and thats not even Lifepo4's wich are even more safe. I made a 8 cell pack off these, and with battery bars it was about 105 dollar i believe A123-3.3V Lithium Ion 2500mAh Single Cell Battery those tabs wich or on there are for the balancing leeds but can be removed very easy and for 4 cilinder 600 & 750 bikes ( I use it for me GSXR 750) these are good and half the price of the A123 maybe with a good R/R this also works on the Hawk (i am gonna test it when i get my R/R) Turnigy 4500mAh 2S2P 30C LiFePo4 Pack some nice options i think
Originally Posted by E.Marquez
(Post 370884)
So I know some will take exception to the wording of "required" for BMS,, thats debatable, and also tied with the specific goals for the battery and intended use. If you want max performance and less concerns with how used, charged, discharged, ect. the BMS is "required"
But who will say having a BMS is not desirable? When the buy in is $$$$$ for a BMS, we say its not "Needed" but if the BMS was scaled down to having only to manage a specific battery type, size, capacity and the cost scaled back as well.. if it was included in the battery assembly for just a few dollars above a like battery without BMS.. I find that quite except able . as for whose cells? Good question, for sure not A123 https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...1&d=1396712928 |
Originally Posted by xeris
(Post 371010)
Wouldn't you have to use two of those in series to get proper voltage?
I wonder what gauge wire is used as it is not stated in the specs. Here are some buss bars. Battery Bars for Sub-C Cells (10pcs) According to info posted by Tweety in an another battery thread these are a little light. Should be more like 1mmx10mmxlength to span past center on a 26650 cell. They are close though and at 29.7 they should be long enough. I made some from copper sheet that is .04in (about 1mm) thick and cut them .4in (10mm) wide. Was going to make a test pack (4s2p) with some 18650 cells I robbed from a dewalt 20v pack. But have since thought it is not such a good idea and shelved the project until I can justify some 26650 cells as for ther battery bars for the 2500 single A123 cell they just make it. ..length wise, i used 2 of them on each connection as i thought there a little small and something that always bothered my is that some lithium marketed battery's have the clamp on O type connector that screws to the oem polarity tabs, i am gonna ditch al that and go with heavy duty gold connector for even less resistance. |
Originally Posted by skokievtr
(Post 370968)
Markus,
Having reached the half century + 10 mark, my long term memory has joined my short term somewhere between the bed and the bathroom every day at 5 AM, so please reiterate what your definition or prescription for what "a reasonable amount of care" should be. Also, for a lot of accessories (i.e., heated vest, glove/grips, driving lights, etc), would a 10 or even 12 cell unit be better/possible; and do you think this vendor would make one? BTW, you ignored my last inquiry in another thread as to the reconstruction status of the homestead is and SWMBO's procreation demands (she's not getting any younger as she must remind you weekly at least)? Was your recent winter as bad as ours? If possible don't drain it fully, and don't leave it uncharged, as that kills the battery for sure... If you do drain it, it's better to bump start the bike and run it to charge the battery, than to use a charger, unless you know exactly what to do... That keeps it from being overcharged... And do that as fast as possible, really... When the bike is sitting, not being ridden daily or at least weekly, unplug the battery, as the slow draining is really bad for it, it likes fast charges and fast discharges much better... Other than that, treat it just like you would any other motorcycle battery... Plain and simple... For a standard VTR, no accessories what-so-ever, summer riding, a 4 cell pack is just fine... For a bone stock VTR, no accessories, ridden in cooler conditions, fall or spring, perhaps even winter, an 8 cell is a must for reliable starts... If you add ANY accessories, like heated gear, or aux lamps and such, a 12 cell is pretty much a must... 16 cells is probably borderline overkill... As is a pack of 4 of the larger cells... But very nice... ;) Eh... No... Not ignored... Hadn't read... Sorry... With work, and taking on extra hours, house restorations, which are going somewhat to plan, just slooow, since I'm doing it on a budget on my "spare" time, I haven't got the time to frequent the boards very much... So normally when i return I have to wade through 200+ updated threads... Yeah, rugrats are still on the to-do list, along with a lot of other stuff... And yeah, I'm reminded of it frequently by the GLW... ;) |
Originally Posted by Mikael
(Post 370995)
What about these batteries?
Batteries - Ballistic Performance Components Bit pricey on their site but I have seen these elsewhere for a lot cheaper. |
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